I would gladly give ...

[Moose]

The obsession to grow Coconut palms in California has always bewildered me. I have a fruiting red Matayan and a fruiting Somoan (Fiji) Dwarf  Coconut Palms that I would tear out immediately and replace with Jubeas if they could survive here. The Coconut palms are nice, but are so common here. Jubea is such a massive stately palm, I envy those who can cultivate them. 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Moose

[GottmitAlex]

If my cocos do not make it, I have already made up my mind on Beccariophoenix Alfredii palms.  In fact I have them already lined up and growing in pots.

I do however, have a b. Fenestralis and a b. Alfredii planted in the narrow garden alongside my cocos nucifera. That said, I am taking care of my 5 cocos to the best of my ability.

 

 

 

[Matt in OC]

I think with palms, like many other things, the grass is always greener on the other side. 

[PalmTreeDude]

If you are somewhere where Coconuts are starting to get too common, you are in a good place.  Jubeas are nice though... If only they were not as picky! 

[GottmitAlex]

19 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

If you are somewhere where Coconuts are starting to get too common, you are in a good place.  Jubeas are nice though... If only they were not as picky! 

You just never know. Stranger things have happened before. If my hypothesis is right, the toughest stage of growing them in my particular region, is the seedling- juvenile stage.  I believe once the root system develops (starting from a  seedling stage)and we see that first or second ring, they'll survive and probably thrive. I know they will never look as nice as south Florida cocos. But it's worth a try. 

In all fairness, the original reason in acquiring my first coconut seedling (golden malayan dwarf) was by accident. I loved its picture (its mother tree) on ebay.  And not because "nobody else has 'em". Little did I know about California and coconuts... 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by GottmitAlex

[sgvcns]

I can always tell when the cali winter is nearing the end by all the coconut threads that light up.

Whilst they are indubitably one of the most useful palms grown for fruit and fibre they don't do it for me.

Factor in how poor the ones look posted on this site in marginal areas and I just mentally shrug.

ce'st la vie

Steve

 

[GottmitAlex]

54 minutes ago, sgvcns said:

I can always tell when the cali winter is nearing the end by all the coconut threads that light up.

Whilst they are indubitably one of the most useful palms grown for fruit and fibre they don't do it for me.

Factor in how poor the ones look posted on this site in marginal areas and I just mentally shrug.

ce'st la vie

Steve

 

Excellent points. Personally I am no fan of the coco fruit.  With the plethora of Queens, canary and washies we've got, it will be a Godsend to have a self cleaning palm. At this stage, I won't mind if the cocos abort the fruit. And that is what probably what will happen during the cold/cool months.  It's that thinly trunked, densely pinnate-leaf look which is quite attractive in my opinion. 

Here again, this doesn't work out I have several Alfredii lined up.  Had I known about the b. Alfredii before I bought my coco seedlings, I would have acquired those instead of the cocos. But as you said : C'est la vie.

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by GottmitAlex

[Zeeth]

¿por qué no los dos?

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Jubaea are sweet but Copernicia Fallaensis are the true kings. Jubaea will grow in Florida if you made a large area and backfilled with soil.  I truly believe that nematodes are what kills them like Trachycarpus, not the hot humid weather.  There are several Jubaea living in Texas and Louisiana in areas far hotter and just as humid than Florida and have been there for years without issue.    The one on the San Antonio Riverwalk has been there for 40-50 years and that is no picnic in the summer, but the ones in North Louisiana and NE of Houston are validations enough for me that humidity and heat aren't the problem. 

[DoomsDave]

@Moose, the obsession to grow coconuts here mirrors the obsession some other PalmTalkers have with growing [expletive] Washingtonias, which we take totally (!!!) for granted here.

Jubes, gotta love, but they aren't foolproof here in Cali.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2018‎ ‎7‎:‎47‎:‎24‎, Moose said:

The obsession to grow Coconut palms in California has always bewildered me. I have a fruiting red Matayan and a fruiting Somoan (Fiji) Dwarf  Coconut Palms that I would tear out immediately and replace with Jubeas if they could survive here. The Coconut palms are nice, but are so common here. Jubea is such a massive stately palm, I envy those who can cultivate them. 

 

I could never imagine tearing out healthy Coconut Palms, especially ones that are fruiting under any circumstances!!!  You can have your Jubeas!!!  I'll take Coconut Palms (the most beautiful tree in the world bar none, and the epitome of the Tropics) any day, even in marginal areas like mine!  So, you California Coconut Palm growers, keep it up and don't let any of the naysayers stop you!  Man made Climate Change is very real, and the only benefit of it till we all are destroyed or our lives drastically changed by the catastrophic effects as the storms, droughts, etc. worsen, is that those of us who could never grow Coconut Palms where we live 30 years ago, are now able to!  Take Corpus Christi, Texas for instance.  30 years ago here, you would never even see a Queen Palm, much less a Coconut Palm here.  Now we have big mature fruiting Queen Palms by the thousands here, mature Royal Palms upwards of 40ft. tall, mature Foxtail Palms approaching 20ft. + tall, and yes a few Coconut Palms, which have been known over the last 10 to 12 years to grow to maturity and even have some decent sized nuts on them between bad winters (which are much less severe and much less frequent than they used to be)!  We used to call winters when it gets down to the upper teens to low 20'sF really bad winters on the lower Texas Coast, but now we call any winters with a lowest temp of 28F or below a really bad winter!

John

[Tracy]

On 2/21/2018, 6:47:36, sgvcns said:

I can always tell when the cali winter is nearing the end by all the coconut threads that light up.

Whilst they are indubitably one of the most useful palms grown for fruit and fibre they don't do it for me.

Factor in how poor the ones look posted on this site in marginal areas and I just mentally shrug.

ce'st la vie

Steve

 

Steve, please.... natives don't say "cali" or wear shirts bearing that name.  It is California.  Here is a native Californian who doesn't have any interest in growing a coconut palm.  We have plenty of other species which will look much better here.  Zone pushing with one of the most common palms in the rest of the world just doesn't do it for me.  It's zone pushing with the palms which need a home outside their habitat that has the most appeal to me.  Yeah, I bought into Jeff Marcus's presentation at the So Cal Palm Society about creating backyard havens for endangered palms or those not common outside collectors gardens and habitat.  While its great to have diversity in California, and others who want to push the limits with coconuts, I'll push it with other palms.  I wish my fellow Californian's success in their endeavor to grow Coconuts, but they won't get any competition from me.

[GottmitAlex]

17 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Steve, please.... natives don't say "cali" or wear shirts bearing that name.  It is California.  Here is a native Californian who doesn't have any interest in growing a coconut palm.  We have plenty of other species which will look much better here.  Zone pushing with one of the most common palms in the rest of the world just doesn't do it for me.  It's zone pushing with the palms which need a home outside their habitat that has the most appeal to me.  Yeah, I bought into Jeff Marcus's presentation at the So Cal Palm Society about creating backyard havens for endangered palms or those not common outside collectors gardens and habitat.  While its great to have diversity in California, and others who want to push the limits with coconuts, I'll push it with other palms.  I wish my fellow Californian's success in their endeavor to grow Coconuts, but they won't get any competition from me.

I honestly do not believe "competition" exists in California regarding growing cocos nucifera. Truthfully, in California it all boils down to survival of the fittest coco (and this is worldwide) and its circumstances in our region. That's it. 

What I have learned in California. Even if the first 30 miles beginning beachside are a 10B zone is: the Inland 12+ miles will get the needed sunshine the beachside will never get due to its constant clouds/fog and hence perpetual cool winds. Don't get me wrong. There are cool winds inland, but not the shade. So the Sun does do its duty heating up in the 80's while beachside they're in the upper 60's.

Yes both places will never frost nor have snow. But there is a significant difference. 

 

 

[Matthew92]

1 hour ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

I could never imagine tearing out healthy Coconut Palms, especially ones that are fruiting under any circumstances!!!  You can have your Jubeas!!!  I'll take Coconut Palms (the most beautiful tree in the world bar none, and the epitome of the Tropics) any day, even in marginal areas like mine!  So, you California Coconut Palm growers, keep it up and don't let any of the naysayers stop you!  Man made Climate Change is very real, and the only benefit of it till we all are destroyed or our lives drastically changed by the catastrophic effects as the storms, droughts, etc. worsen, is that those of us who could never grow Coconut Palms where we live 30 years ago, are now able to!  Take Corpus Christi, Texas for instance.  30 years ago here, you would never even see a Queen Palm, much less a Coconut Palm here.  Now we have big mature fruiting Queen Palms by the thousands here, mature Royal Palms upwards of 40ft. tall, mature Foxtail Palms approaching 20ft. + tall, and yes a few Coconut Palms, which have been known over the last 10 to 12 years to grow to maturity and even have some decent sized nuts on them between bad winters (which are much less severe and much less frequent than they used to be)!  We used to call winters when it gets down to the upper teens to low 20'sF really bad winters on the lower Texas Coast, but now we call any winters with a lowest temp of 28F or below a really bad winter!

John

With what you said about winters that used to get to the upper teens and low 20's, I think that was happening more with the unusually cold decade of the 1980's. Interestingly, in my area of the FL Panhandle, the freezes really haven't changed (sans the 1980's or occasional unusual arctic blast) much to make any earth shattering changes in what can be grown here . We still consistently get zone 8b upper teen freezes and even 9a stuff can be a gamble. I agree that humans are probably altering the climate to some degree, but I ponder whether our recent warmer winters are primarily because of that or entirely (or partly) due to a natural climate cycle. I mean, people used to grow citrus up here in the Panhandle for some time in the 1800's during a warmer period. That really couldn't even have been done in the last 10 years with a winter like 2014 or 2010. How cold did you get this past winter? If I remember right you got snow and it was cold enough to kill coconuts. 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

1 hour ago, Opal92 said:

With what you said about winters that used to get to the upper teens and low 20's, I think that was happening more with the unusually cold decade of the 1980's. Interestingly, in my area of the FL Panhandle, the freezes really haven't changed (sans the 1980's or occasional unusual arctic blast) much to make any earth shattering changes in what can be grown here . We still consistently get zone 8b upper teen freezes and even 9a stuff can be a gamble. I agree that humans are probably altering the climate to some degree, but I ponder whether our recent warmer winters are primarily because of that or entirely (or partly) due to a natural climate cycle. I mean, people used to grow citrus up here in the Panhandle for some time in the 1800's during a warmer period. That really couldn't even have been done in the last 10 years with a winter like 2014 or 2010. How cold did you get this past winter? If I remember right you got snow and it was cold enough to kill coconuts. 

It isn't just the temperature climate change that is devastating the planet, but the EXTREME DROUGHTS that were once rare, that are now becoming common in South Texas and many other areas around the world, as well as the death of 50% + of the world's coral reefs (and most of the remaining 50% are not in a healthy state!),the acidification of the oceans, the deforestation, especially of tropical rainforests and jungle regions leading to desertification of once lush tropical regions, the rapid melting of the polar ice caps, etc. that are having a cumulative adverse affect on the world's climate and weather patterns!  And these things ARE being caused by mankind through the modern industrial economies!  I am an agricultural scientist, and amateur weather buff and climatologist, and I have been watching DRASTIC changes in weather patterns and overall climate over the last 30 years in North America and around the world!  Normal fluctuations in weather patterns and climate are gradual (over centuries or millenia), and are not drastic sudden changes (barring an Earth changing event like a large meteor or asteroid striking the planet).  However what we have seen over the last 30 years is NOT gradual, but very sudden in terms of time and ARE drastic changes compared to what is normal!  I would honestly say that 20% or less of what we are seeing is natural fluctuations in weather patterns and climate over time, but the other 80%+ IS ENTIRELY MAN MADE!  AND IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE UNLESS WE AS THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE TAKE DRASTIC MEASURES TO SLOW DOWN AND HOPEFULLY AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE TO AT LEAST SOMEWHAT REVERSE THE HARM WE HAVE DONE!!!  AND YES, THIS DOES MEAN FUNDAMENTALLY TRANSFORMING THE MODERN CORRUPT ECONOMIES THAT DO NOT BENEFIT THE AVERAGE PERSON AT ALL, BUT RATHER ACT AS A GIANT SUCTION DEVICE SUCKING UP THE MONEY OF US AVERAGE PEOPLE UP TO THE TOP 1% OF THE POPULATION AND THE 10% OUT THERE WHO WHOLE HEARTEDLY GO ALONG WITH THEIR CORRUPT AGENDA!!!

John

[Xerarch]

On 2/22/2018, 6:24:18, Zeeth said:

¿por qué no los dos?

Porque la Isla de Pascua es muy chica y apollaria a todos nosotros. Parece que tendremos que estar contento con lo que podemos tener en nuestra parte de mundo. 

[GottmitAlex]

1 hour ago, Xerarch said:

Porque la Isla de Pascua es muy chica y apollaria a todos nosotros. Parece que tendremos que estar contento con lo que podemos tener en nuestra parte de mundo. 

Bien dicho!

[Xerarch]

1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

Bien dicho!

Gracia pero claro que quise decir “no” apollaria a todos nosotros. 

[PalmTreeDude]

Tus todos hablas espanol?

[GottmitAlex]

Un poco.

[GottmitAlex]

On 2/21/2018, 5:47:24, Moose said:

The obsession to grow Coconut palms in California has always bewildered me. I have a fruiting red Matayan and a fruiting Somoan (Fiji) Dwarf  Coconut Palms that I would tear out immediately and replace with Jubeas if they could survive here. The Coconut palms are nice, but are so common here. Jubea is such a massive stately palm, I envy those who can cultivate them. 

 

How old was your Fiji dwarf when it first produced fruit? And how tall was the trunk at the time?

[Matthew92]

16 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

It isn't just the temperature climate change that is devastating the planet, but the EXTREME DROUGHTS that were once rare, that are now becoming common in South Texas and many other areas around the world, as well as the death of 50% + of the world's coral reefs (and most of the remaining 50% are not in a healthy state!),the acidification of the oceans, the deforestation, especially of tropical rainforests and jungle regions leading to desertification of once lush tropical regions, the rapid melting of the polar ice caps, etc. that are having a cumulative adverse affect on the world's climate and weather patterns!  And these things ARE being caused by mankind through the modern industrial economies!  I am an agricultural scientist, and amateur weather buff and climatologist, and I have been watching DRASTIC changes in weather patterns and overall climate over the last 30 years in North America and around the world!  Normal fluctuations in weather patterns and climate are gradual (over centuries or millenia), and are not drastic sudden changes (barring an Earth changing event like a large meteor or asteroid striking the planet).  However what we have seen over the last 30 years is NOT gradual, but very sudden in terms of time and ARE drastic changes compared to what is normal!  I would honestly say that 20% or less of what we are seeing is natural fluctuations in weather patterns and climate over time, but the other 80%+ IS ENTIRELY MAN MADE!  AND IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE UNLESS WE AS THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE TAKE DRASTIC MEASURES TO SLOW DOWN AND HOPEFULLY AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE TO AT LEAST SOMEWHAT REVERSE THE HARM WE HAVE DONE!!!  AND YES, THIS DOES MEAN FUNDAMENTALLY TRANSFORMING THE MODERN CORRUPT ECONOMIES THAT DO NOT BENEFIT THE AVERAGE PERSON AT ALL, BUT RATHER ACT AS A GIANT SUCTION DEVICE SUCKING UP THE MONEY OF US AVERAGE PEOPLE UP TO THE TOP 1% OF THE POPULATION AND THE 10% OUT THERE WHO WHOLE HEARTEDLY GO ALONG WITH THEIR CORRUPT AGENDA!!!

John

Woah.. okay. I wasn't trying to attack you. I understand your point. Again, even though I believe natural variations/cycles still has a large part in many significant meteorological and climatological events as of late, I still believe that we indeed are messing up the climate, and I think we should drastically change things to make our footprint as minimal as realistically possible. Those adverse effects occurring on the earth you mentioned I am aware of and it is horrible indeed.

[GottmitAlex]

On 2/21/2018 at 6:35 PM, GottmitAlex said:

You just never know. Stranger things have happened before. If my hypothesis is right, the toughest stage of growing them in my particular region, is the seedling- juvenile stage.  I believe once the root system develops (starting from a  seedling stage)and we see that first or second ring, they'll survive and probably thrive. I know they will never look as nice as south Florida cocos. But it's worth a try. 

In all fairness, the original reason in acquiring my first coconut seedling (golden malayan dwarf) was by accident. I loved its picture (its mother tree) on ebay.  And not because "nobody else has 'em". Little did I know about California and coconuts... 

 

 

Speaking of two rings....

In the side pic you can see both rings. However in the frontal view the husk hides the first ring.  It's almost been three years in thr ground. I imagine since it's in pure sand the husk does not decompose as quickly as if it were in rich soil.

Edited August 2, 2019 by GottmitAlex

[palmsOrl]

On 2/21/2018 at 8:47 PM, Moose said:

The obsession to grow Coconut palms in California has always bewildered me. I have a fruiting red Matayan and a fruiting Somoan (Fiji) Dwarf  Coconut Palms that I would tear out immediately and replace with Jubeas if they could survive here. The Coconut palms are nice, but are so common here. Jubea is such a massive stately palm, I envy those who can cultivate them. 

 

One always wants what one cannot have.