Palm Root Barrier

[USFishin]

I'm planning on redoing the walkway to my front door with travertine pavers. With the whole project I'm going to do some landscaping along the walkway and want to add two Royal Palms. My biggest concern is the roots from the palms eventually making it over to the paver walkway and lifting them up. I'm planning on planting the palms about 3 1/2' from the edge of the walkway to the center of the trunk. Would putting something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017JC2OGO/ref=twister_B072PP4CP5?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 work if I put it along the edge of the walkway? Has anyone had any experience with this product? Is 60 mil thick enough or should I go thicker? Thanks in advance!

[Moose]

Go with Satakentia, nix the Royal idea. Just my opinion. You will be happier in 10 years

[sonoranfans]

Not sure satakentia will take the cold there in oldsmar, but kentiopsis Oliviformis will likely take more a few degrees cold than either.  Royals get huge and will drop big leaves weighing 40-50 lbs.  Royals are best planted away from walkways.  Not sure what cold satakentia will take, but they are really gorgeous palms.

[Palm Tree Jim]

11 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

Not sure satakentia will take the cold there in oldsmar, but kentiopsis Oliviformis will likely take more a few degrees cold than either.  Royals get huge and will drop big leaves weighing 40-50 lbs.  Royals are best planted away from walkways.  Not sure what cold satakentia will take, but they are really gorgeous palms.

Great advice....I removed my regia due to planting in a bad location.

[USFishin]

I'm not completely set on the Royals. Regardless I think I'm still going to need to do something about the roots creeping over and lifting up the pavers. Has anyone had any experience with the product I listed in the original post, or something similar?

[Jim in Los Altos]

For the most part, palm tree roots are not a problem even when planted closer to hardscaping than you are planning. I've got dozens of big mature Archontophoenix, Phoenix, Brahea, Howea, Bismarkia, Parajubea, and others whose fat trunks are actually touching pavement and not one is causing a problem with lifting. It's a totally different story when it comes to certain broadleaf trees though.

 

[sonoranfans]

  Generally palms dont have roots that will lift hardscaping much as Jim says.  Royals get very tall and need large root systems to hold up in the wind and support those heavy fatty trunks that weigh several tons each.  My two royals are babies at 35'+ overall with over 20' grey trunk with a 28" in diameter at ground level and the trunk is slightly thicker at 12-14' than ground level in the common coke bottle shape.  I've seen them over 60' here in florida, they get massive and very heavy.  Limiting such a large heavy tree by restricting root growth may present future hazards.  Roots are like sailboat ballast, limit them at your peril.

[USFishin]

Just now, Jim in Los Altos said:

For the most part, palm tree roots are not a problem even when planted closer to hardscaping than you are planning. I've got dozens of big mature Archontophoenix, Phoenix, Brahea, Howea, Bismarkia, Parajubea, and others whose fat trunks are actually touching pavement and not one is causing a problem with lifting. It's a totally different story when it comes to certain broadleaf trees though.

 

I agree it's not much of an issue with palms near poured concrete driveways, sidewalks, etc. My concern here is with individual pavers. I have the same pavers around my pool and I've previously had an issue with some adjacent queen palms lifting up the pavers on the little pad outside the patio door.

[Moose]

10 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Not sure satakentia will take the cold there in oldsmar, but kentiopsis Oliviformis will likely take more a few degrees cold than either.  Royals get huge and will drop big leaves weighing 40-50 lbs.  Royals are best planted away from walkways.  Not sure what cold satakentia will take, but they are really gorgeous palms.

 

4 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

  Generally palms dont have roots that will lift hardscaping much as Jim says.  Royals get very tall and need large root systems to hold up in the wind and support those heavy fatty trunks that weigh several tons each.  My two royals are babies at 35'+ overall with over 20' grey trunk with a 28" in diameter at ground level and the trunk is slightly thicker at 12-14' than ground level in the common coke bottle shape.  I've seen them over 60' here in florida, they get massive and very heavy.  Limiting such a large heavy tree by restricting root growth may present future hazards.  Roots are like sailboat ballast, limit them at your peril.

Got to agree with Tom on both his posts

[Cocoa Beach Jason]

USFishin in case you were a USF football fan I figured I would kindly remind you of the following from this year’s game against the undefeated UCF Knights, this year’s other national champion:

[USFishin]

53 minutes ago, Cocoa Beach Jason said:

USFishin in case you were a USF football fan I figured I would kindly remind you of the following from this year’s game against the undefeated UCF Knights, this year’s other national champion:

Lol, thanks for the reminder. At least you said this year's "other" national champion.

[RedRabbit]

6 minutes ago, USFishin said:

Lol, thanks for the reminder. At least you said this year's "other" national champion.

Go Bulls! 

Welcome to the forum. I'm just a few miles east in Carrollwood so we should have a pretty similar climate. I'll be interested to know what palms you decide on. I like royals for this area, but they're not looking too happy right now as I'm sure you've seen.

[Cocoa Beach Jason]

There, changed the profile pic. For my friends in West Florida. 

[Moose]

My sister attended USF, I was born in Orlando - I feel pulled in two separate directions.

Back to the Royal Palms. As Tom stated they have massive root systems as they get large. They will grow up, over and through pavers with ease. A little longer with slab concrete. The falling fronds are a definite issue, speaking from experience, I once thought as you.   

[Jim in Los Altos]

On 3/9/2018, 12:50:22, USFishin said:

I agree it's not much of an issue with palms near poured concrete driveways, sidewalks, etc. My concern here is with individual pavers. I have the same pavers around my pool and I've previously had an issue with some adjacent queen palms lifting up the pavers on the little pad outside the patio door.

Perhaps just a PVC barrier parallel to the pavers and down 18" would suffice instead of circling the palm's trunk at drip line. 

Edited March 10, 2018 by Jim in Los Altos

[USFishin]

 

23 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Go Bulls! 

Welcome to the forum. I'm just a few miles east in Carrollwood so we should have a pretty similar climate. I'll be interested to know what palms you decide on. I like royals for this area, but they're not looking too happy right now as I'm sure you've seen.

I love Royals, I'm not sure I have room for any with the size of my yard though I have a lot of Foxtails right now and really like them. I think I might add two more of those along the new walkway instead of the Royals.

 

 

4 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Perhaps just a PVC barrier parallel to the pavers and down 18" would suffice instead of circling the palm's trunk at drip line. 

That's similar to the product I linked to in the original post. I wasn't planning on fully circling the palms, just lining the edge of the paver walkway to keep the roots heading in the other direction into the yard instead of other the pavers. You mentioned 18", do you think that would be deep enough or should I go deeper?

[RedRabbit]

30 minutes ago, USFishin said:

 

I love Royals, I'm not sure I have room for any with the size of my yard though I have a lot of Foxtails right now and really like them. I think I might add two more of those along the new walkway instead of the Royals.

Have you considered a foxy lady (wodyetia x veitchia)? That's one I'd be interested in trying myself. It would be very marginal here, but worth it I think. 

[USFishin]

16 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Have you considered a foxy lady (wodyetia x veitchia)? That's one I'd be interested in trying myself. It would be very marginal here, but worth it I think.

I've never heard of those but I just looked them up and I like! You have an idea where I could get a pair of Foxy Ladies around here?

[RedRabbit]

56 minutes ago, USFishin said:

I've never heard of those but I just looked them up and I like! You have an idea where I could get a pair of Foxy Ladies around here?

I wish I did. Mike Evans has been my go to for palms, but he doesn't have this one listed in his inventory. MB Palms in Orlando used to have them so it might be worth contacting them. 

[Alan_Tampa]

I went to USF.  So whatever UCF! Kidding. Anyways, don't bother with Satakentia in oldsmar. I've seen just two do well in this area, and that was in Ruskin right on the bay/little manatee river. Archontophoenix cunnighamiana will probably be a safer bet. Plus, not much to worry about in the root arena. 

[Alan_Tampa]

1 hour ago, USFishin said:

I've never heard of those but I just looked them up and I like! You have an idea where I could get a pair of Foxy Ladies around here?

My foxy lady totally ate it in 2010, not a safe bet.

Are you right near the water?

[Silas_Sancona]

Would whole - heartedly agree with RedRabbit,

  Add Foxy ladies to the top of your "list of possible choices"  for sure. Great palm, even if some might scoff that its a Hybrid. Been #1 on my list of pinnate leaf-type palm choices for awhile.. Doesn't get too big, always looks great. Grows at a reasonable clip.

Royals are great but, as stated perfectly by others, they are called royals for a reason. Foxtails are good, but also get big ..and drop a lot of big fruit ( Thank god I used to skate, and have very flexible ankles). 

RR, while it is impossible to guarantee that a bad winter wouldn't leave some sort of damage, it would be my thought that you shouldn't have much trouble growing them up where you are at..  Seems to be a pretty tough palm from what I have noted.

Anyway, a little eye candy for both of you, and everyone else.  Taken 12/24/14 @ Kopsick:

[USFishin]

4 hours ago, Alan_Tampa said:

My foxy lady totally ate it in 2010, not a safe bet.

Are you right near the water?

I'm only about 1/4 or so as the crow flies from the top of the bay so I stay a little warmer than some of the further east areas of the Bay Area. From what I read, the Foxy Lady is good to 9B zones.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Foxy Lady pams are solid 9b palms that will spot a bit with light frost. They are very fast growing if watered well. I need a more recent picture but since planting in 2013 from a 1 gallon container, it's now over 14 feet tall and that's in our cooler SF Bay Area climate. 

[DoomsDave]

Barriers?

You don’t need no stinkin’ barriers for palm roots.

@Jim in Los Altos, @Moose, @sonoranfans all have the right idea. 

Palms aren’t Ficus, thank all the deities. I’ve planted a garden full of monsters and the roots stay in ground and don’t damage concrete etc.

Not even Butch the Roystonea.