Dypsis decipiens after 5 years

[Tracy]

The photos below show a 5 year interval on a Dypsis decipiens, from about the time I acquired it to a couple of weeks ago.  The earlier photo it was in a citrus pot when I bought it at a PSSC meeting auction in late March 2017 (photo was 4/1/2013).  I didn't get it into the ground until 2015, but it went straight from the citrus pot to the ground, no intermediate size pots.  I guess I was warned that these would be slow on the coast, which it has been compared to many other palms I have, but it has about caught up with another one I planted earlier but was a double at the time of planting from a 3 gallon pot.  I planted it with the wall to it's south for additional heat, and an open sky to the west.  I guess this will be one that is a slow gratification.  It can race with some of my cycads out front to see which will form trunk first!  Right now the Encephalartos longifolius is definitely winning the race, and the E nat x horridus are in second place!  I'll have to update this in another 5 years to see if the horse race has changed.

[Monòver]

Nice decipiens, i hope mine will be like yours soon.

And nice stones!!! Very unsual color.

[Tracy]

On 3/25/2018 at 10:10 AM, Tracy said:

5 year interval on a Dypsis decipiens, from about the time I acquired it to a couple of weeks ago.  The earlier photo it was in a citrus pot when I bought it at a PSSC meeting auction in late March 2013 (photo was 4/1/2013).  I didn't get it into the ground until 2015, but it went straight from the citrus pot to the ground, no intermediate size pots. 

Update on this species in the coastal growing zone, as I have two growing.  The second one I planted was the one posted at the 5 year mark (typo in my original post said I bought it in March 2017, that should have been March 2013).  The first one I planted went into the ground in late 2010 or early 2011, and first photo below was October 2013, so about 2 1/2 or 3 years after I planted it.  Second two photos are the same plant just a month over 8 years later.   That's pretty slow in my book, but this one has been slower than my other one.  This I planted as a double but it split again... twice in fact, so it now has 4 trunks.  I think having all those trunks to feed with whatever root system it has been able to develop thus far has translated into the slower speed than the other specimen planted about 20 yards away, same west facing area in my front planters, so similar light.

[ahosey01]

A real rocket ship!

[Meangreen94z]

It should start taking off,, based on the photos of the one in Modesto after 20 years.

[Tracy]

10 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

A real rocket ship!

Said sarcastically I assume as I expected more speed.  The other one that I planted as a single and turned into a double has been more along the lines of my expectations.

 

On 3/25/2018 at 10:10 AM, Tracy said:

The photos below show a 5 year interval on a Dypsis decipiens, from about the time I acquired it to a couple of weeks ago.  The earlier photo it was in a citrus pot when I bought it at a PSSC meeting auction in late March 2013 (photo was 4/1/2013).  I didn't get it into the ground until 2015, but it went straight from the citrus pot to the ground. I'll have to update this in another 5 years to see if the horse race has changed.

I'm early on the updated photo, not waiting the full 5 years, only 3 years and 8 months later here is what the speedier one looks like.

[Billeb]

7 hours ago, Tracy said:

 

They really are super pretty. A lot of potential for sure, I just can’t stand the below average growth rate. I’m far too impatient 

 

-dale

[DoomsDave]

Damn 

The obscenities are flying 

[ahosey01]

18 hours ago, Tracy said:

Said sarcastically I assume as I expected more speed.  The other one that I planted as a single and turned into a double has been more along the lines of my expectations.

Very sarcastically! I knew they were slow palms, but that one appears reeeeal slow.  Still a beautiful palm and I’d sure like one in my garden…

[tinman10101]

so jealous of your growing conditions tracy.  everything seems to grow so well for you.  mine grows so slow and is not even that size after 12 years from a five gallon.   

[Josue Diaz]

22 hours ago, Tracy said:

Said sarcastically I assume as I expected more speed.  The other one that I planted as a single and turned into a double has been more along the lines of my expectations.

 

I'm early on the updated photo, not waiting the full 5 years, only 3 years and 8 months later here is what the speedier one looks like.

Incredible palm - and garden overall

[Tracy]

30 minutes ago, tinman10101 said:

so jealous of your growing conditions tracy.  everything seems to grow so well for you.  mine grows so slow and is not even that size after 12 years from a five gallon.   

It is all how one approaches it.  Success in easier growing climates for one species doesn't translate into more reward.  Success growing a plant in a more difficult climate for a particular species just means that you had to work harder and be more patient which translates into a higher reward.   My hat is off to you and others that are pushing the limits in their particular climates and are willing to pass along their knowledge to others that might want to follow their lead.

With this particular species, I was going against all the advice that it would be very slow on the coast.  Well I have the slow one and I have the fast one.  I guess what we can all take away from it is that common wisdom should be challenged sometimes by experimenting to confirm or deny the common wisdom.  That is the scientific process, hypothesis, and experiments to confirm or deny the hypothesis.

[tinman10101]

21 minutes ago, Tracy said:

It is all how one approaches it.  Success in easier growing climates for one species doesn't translate into more reward.  Success growing a plant in a more difficult climate for a particular species just means that you had to work harder and be more patient which translates into a higher reward.   My hat is off to you and others that are pushing the limits in their particular climates and are willing to pass along their knowledge to others that might want to follow their lead.

With this particular species, I was going against all the advice that it would be very slow on the coast.  Well I have the slow one and I have the fast one.  I guess what we can all take away from it is that common wisdom should be challenged sometimes by experimenting to confirm or deny the common wisdom.  That is the scientific process, hypothesis, and experiments to confirm or deny the hypothesis.

i agree with your rationalization tracy.  i can tell you that when i loose a rare plant in my garden, it is usually extremely disappointing because with great rewards also comes with great disappointment.  but i do get great pleasure in growing rare plants from zone pushing.  alas, we share a common passion for plants and i plan to continue to debunk the general view of growing palms in a 9b environment.   in any case, your garden is quite spectacular.  i enjoy seeing all the SD and surrounding gardens.  it was the initial inspiration for my garden and it is true that every garden is unique in not only its flora but also, their growing habits for that particular growing environment.  

tin 

[The Gerg]

That’s a nice looking palm Tracy. I can’t wait for mine to start putting on size. Hasn’t happened yet. I think it might be planted too low which may be slowing down an already slow palm. 

[ExperimentalGrower]

On 12/14/2021 at 9:26 AM, Tracy said:

It is all how one approaches it.  Success in easier growing climates for one species doesn't translate into more reward.  Success growing a plant in a more difficult climate for a particular species just means that you had to work harder and be more patient which translates into a higher reward.   My hat is off to you and others that are pushing the limits in their particular climates and are willing to pass along their knowledge to others that might want to follow their lead.

With this particular species, I was going against all the advice that it would be very slow on the coast.  Well I have the slow one and I have the fast one.  I guess what we can all take away from it is that common wisdom should be challenged sometimes by experimenting to confirm or deny the common wisdom.  That is the scientific process, hypothesis, and experiments to confirm or deny the hypothesis.

Yup, I have a big 5 gallon that has more than doubled in size in under 2 years. It’s actually not too slow.  Its not fast but I think it’s as fast as my P. sunhka, perhaps faster. Definitely not the slug people describe. Genetic variation and good climate I suppose. I’m finally putting it in the ground this evening! Post to follow.

[ExperimentalGrower]

One question I have prior to planting mine out this evening is regarding their heal. Does this palm relocate positions as it tillers into the ground? Some palms move up to two feet or more from their original planting location I’ve learned. Specifically thinking of Darold’s Ceroxylon quindiense I saw in person.

[Billeb]

Anything with a heal can and likely will move. Rhopalastylis, Ambositrae and other Dypsis can all move but I don’t think there’s a standard or anything. Just a complete luck of the draw. 2ft seams like a crazy amount of movement to me tho. 

Full disclosure: I don’t have a decipians so I can’t comment on that but both my Rhopalastylis (Baueri & Cheesmanii) have moved since going in the ground. Merely inches tho. 
 

-dale

[ExperimentalGrower]

1 hour ago, Billeb said:

Anything with a heal can and likely will move. Rhopalastylis, Ambositrae and other Dypsis can all move but I don’t think there’s a standard or anything. Just a complete luck of the draw. 2ft seams like a crazy amount of movement to me tho. 

Full disclosure: I don’t have a decipians so I can’t comment on that but both my Rhopalastylis (Baueri & Cheesmanii) have moved since going in the ground. Merely inches tho. 
 

-dale

Yup that’s the truth. Trying to hear from the experience of others what they’ve seen. I think the reason Jeff’s Modesto decipiens was growing into his gutter was bc it moved toward the house, something he didn’t anticipate. 
 

2ft of movement is quite a bit, probably wouldn’t have believed it had I not measured it myself. Possibly even more unbelievable was that the Ceroxylon stands 40ft tall, and the heal was still visible, intact, and solid just above the ground.

[Tracy]

55 minutes ago, ExperimentalGrower said:

Yup that’s the truth. Trying to hear from the experience of others what they’ve seen. I think the reason Jeff’s Modesto decipiens was growing into his gutter was bc it moved toward the house, something he didn’t anticipate. 
 

2ft of movement is quite a bit, probably wouldn’t have believed it had I not measured it myself. Possibly even more unbelievable was that the Ceroxylon stands 40ft tall, and the heal was still visible, intact, and solid just above the ground.

My experience with the two I have is hardly a mathematically significant survey, but the movement wasn't significant enough on either to reconsider where I planted them.  Since it will be pushing away from the heel, my suggestion would be to orient it so that even if it does, you have room for it to move in the direction away from the heel.

[ExperimentalGrower]

39 minutes ago, Tracy said:

My experience with the two I have is hardly a mathematically significant survey, but the movement wasn't significant enough on either to reconsider where I planted them.  Since it will be pushing away from the heel, my suggestion would be to orient it so that even if it does, you have room for it to move in the direction away from the heel.

Kind of what I expected with this one. Problem is, I can’t quite tell yet which side the heal is on. My gut tells me it’s the right side. Thoughts?

 

[James B]

Will this species grow faster or slower in an inland climate with more heat and sun than coastal CA?

[Tracy]

12 hours ago, ExperimentalGrower said:

Kind of what I expected with this one. Problem is, I can’t quite tell yet which side the heal is on. My gut tells me it’s the right side. Thoughts?

 

With both of mine the split. New trunk emerged on the opposite side from the heel. 

[Tracy]

11 hours ago, James B said:

Will this species grow faster or slower in an inland climate with more heat and sun than coastal CA?

The common wisdom shared with me was that they would be much slower in my coastal zone.  My impression now is that there is a lot of variability in growth from plant to plant which may be a bigger factor.   Jim in Los Altos has had good growth and he has a pretty mild climate too.  I can't explain the difference in growth speed between my two for any cultural differences as they are in the same soil, same light exposure and were originally planted at similar sizes.  Luck of the draw?

 

[Matt in OC]

I think there may be something to what Tracy says. Mine is crawling. A few miles down the coast, the Sherman Gardens plant is a mutant. 
 

2020

today:

 

[Billeb]

1 hour ago, Matt in OC said:

I think there may be something to what Tracy says. Mine is crawling. A few miles down the coast, the Sherman Gardens plant is a mutant. 
 

2020

today:

 

I was there probably about the time of your first picture. That has indeed grown quite a bit. Perfect placement there btw….

 

-dale

[Tracy]

On 3/25/2018 at 10:10 AM, Tracy said:

I'll have to update this in another 5 years to see if the horse race has changed.

Not quite another 5 years from March of 2018, but within a couple of months.   Maybe both of them will have even opened new leaves by the time March of this year arrives and the full cycle has been completed.  Still no trunk on either but they are getting taller.  Trunk thickness can be compared to the blocks in the wall behind which are standard 8"x8"x16" blocks.

[ExperimentalGrower]

10 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Not quite another 5 years from March of 2018, but within a couple of months.   Maybe both of them will have even opened new leaves by the time March of this year arrives and the full cycle has been completed.  Still no trunk on either but they are getting taller.  Trunk thickness can be compared to the blocks in the wall behind which are standard 8"x8"x16" blocks.

So in total it’s about ten years old?

[Patrick]

I would downvote everyone in this thread for growing such nice decipiens, if I could. Because I can't here. I'm a decipiens chump. You all make me sick. Keep up the great work.

[Tracy]

3 hours ago, ExperimentalGrower said:

So in total it’s about ten years old?

Yes 10 years from the citrus pot.  I think some specimens are more vigorous than others given that I planted the other one first and it is less than 50 feet away,  same soil, same sun exposure. 

[Tracy]

On 1/13/2023 at 5:45 PM, Tracy said:

Not quite another 5 years from March of 2018, but within a couple of months.   Maybe both of them will have even opened new leaves by the time March of this year arrives and the full cycle has been completed.  Still no trunk on either but they are getting taller.  Trunk thickness can be compared to the blocks in the wall behind which are standard 8"x8"x16" blocks.

Another year of growth on this now Chrysalidocarpus decipiens, so 11 years from when I bought it at a Palm Society Auction in 2013 (photo in the pot at beginning of this topic string).  Still no visible trunk but I can tell when the leaf bases come off that it isn't too far below the soil line now on the larger trunk.  The heel is still readily visible.  This one has been a consistent performer, unlike the first one I planted (last two photos) which put all its energy into splitting into multiple trunks.  The size difference is pretty amazing considering the smaller plant went into the ground in late 2010 or early 2011 from a pot similar in size to the other one was when I planted it years later.

The first one I planted is acting more like a shrub in the garden than a tall growing palm, but I guess I just need to be patient.

[JubaeaMan138]

44 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Another year of growth on this now Chrysalidocarpus decipiens, so 11 years from when I bought it at a Palm Society Auction in 2013 (photo in the pot at beginning of this topic string).  Still no visible trunk but I can tell when the leaf bases come off that it isn't too far below the soil line now on the larger trunk.  The heel is still readily visible.  This one has been a consistent performer, unlike the first one I planted (last two photos) which put all its energy into splitting into multiple trunks.  The size difference is pretty amazing considering the smaller plant went into the ground in late 2010 or early 2011 from a pot similar in size to the other one was when I planted it years later.

The first one I planted is acting more like a shrub in the garden than a tall growing palm, but I guess I just need to be patient.

Gorgeous Tracy!!! I’ve tried several of these and grown them to a 15 gallon size . And they always die on me as soon as they  hit the ground .not sure why I think I might water them to Much . I think im Done with this species .   I’ll just admire everyone else’s . 

Edited January 11 by JubaeaMan138

[Billeb]

3 hours ago, Tracy said:

 

 

 

 

Looks so good Tracy. There’s just something about a well grown Decipiens. Your double above is perfect looking. Just wish they weren’t so damn slow. I’ve got a 15G I bought from Ron awhile back but just threw it in the ground this past fall. Snail pace as they say. 
 

-dale 

[Tracy]

13 hours ago, Billeb said:

Looks so good Tracy. There’s just something about a well grown Decipiens. Your double above is perfect looking. Just wish they weren’t so damn slow. I’ve got a 15G I bought from Ron awhile back but just threw it in the ground this past fall. Snail pace as they say. 
 

-dale 

Perhaps the fact that they tend to beslow, finicky growers and beautiful is part of the allure.  If they just grew like weeds or Syagrus romanzoffiana, the attraction would decrease.   The old risk reward assessment is biased in its favor because of the way we are hardwired. 

[realarch]

Tracy, they are well on their way, well the one at least. Patience equals reward is so appropriate for measured growing plants. The color and markings on the olderr C. decipiens is so attractive and having planted both and watching them progress is such a bonus.

Tim

[Rivera]

Looks good with the blue-green of the aloe in the foreground 👍

Is that ramosissima or dichotoma?

[Tracy]

1 hour ago, Rivera said:

Is that ramosissima or dichotoma?

I bought it thinking it was Aloidendron ramosissimum as a small 1 gallon.  As it grew it became apparent that it is Aloidendron dichotomum or a hybrid.  I'm leaning toward pure A dichotomum at this point.  I've bought a total of five Aloidendron ramosissimum from a couple of sources and thus far have two confirmed A ramosissimum, two that are either hyrbids but more likely pure A dichotomum and one I'm still waiting to make a judgement on.

Without having a large yard, I wanted more Aloidendron ramosissimum.  I have the large 14 year in the ground Aloidendron "Hercules", so have limited space to be planting a bunch of large growing specimens.

[Matt in OC]

So what is the secret to growing this palm well, @Tracy and others? Every one I've tried have been failures.

[Tracy]

8 hours ago, Matt in OC said:

So what is the secret to growing this palm well, @Tracy and others? Every one I've tried have been failures.

My explanation is that I got lucky with the plant since this species is so variable in performance from one specimen to another.   I need look no farther than my own front yard to see same conditions with different results. 

[Billeb]

8 hours ago, Matt in OC said:

So what is the secret to growing this palm well, @Tracy and others? Every one I've tried have been failures.

Matt, how did you determine they were “failures”. Just little to no movement? Or did the plants you tried legitimately die for unknown reasons? 
 

-dale 

[Hilo Jason]

C. Decipiens tends to look better in California than it does here on the Big Island so I wasn’t planning on planting one here. But I found this one at a nursery yesterday so am going to plant it in full sun and hope for the best. Curious to see the growth rate here once it gets in the ground.