Butia Growth Rate

[climate change virginia]

On 5/19/2019 at 8:01 PM, Sabal Steve said:

5/2019

what are those trees in the background that look like palms coming off a stick

[Frond-friend42]

Yuccas.

[Frond-friend42]

6 minutes ago, climate change virginia said:

what are those trees in the background that look like palms coming off a stick

Yucca guatemalensis I think.

 

[Sabal Steve]

Here’s an updated photo, along with a shot of that Yucca.  I broke a branch off of a fallen tree that I came across.  That Yucca has been a slow, steady grower, that needs nothing.  The Butia is pretty resilient, too.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Sabal Steve

[Fusca]

10 minutes ago, Sabal Steve said:

Here’s an updated photo

Wow, what a beefy trunk on that thing!  Makes me wonder if you've got a Butia x Jubaea.  That would explain the big trunk.  Either that or just due to variation in species.  Were there any Jubaea around when you collected that seedling?  Looks awesome!

[Sabal Steve]

21 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Wow, what a beefy trunk on that thing!  Makes me wonder if you've got a Butia x Jubaea.  That would explain the big trunk.  Either that or just due to variation in species.  Were there any Jubaea around when you collected that seedling?  Looks awesome!

I’m pretty sure it’s a Butia, but anything is possible.  There are some Jubs not too far away, but none are flowering.  But there is a Butia x Jubaea, maybe a quarter mile away, which has to be 30’ tall.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Sabal Steve

[Fusca]

23 minutes ago, Sabal Steve said:

I’m pretty sure it’s a Butia, but anything is possible.  There are some Jubs not too far away, but none are flowering.  But there is a Butia x Jubaea, maybe a quarter mile away, which has to be 30’ tall.

I love it whatever it is!  Reminded me of a photo of JxB that @TexasColdHardyPalms posted recently with about a 5' diameter trunk.

[Palmfarmer]

Wow what a freak! look Forward to see how mine will do, its finally growing slowly but steadly after transplant in april with a small rootball.

[Palmfarmer]

I thought most butias was suspect to root rot if watered to much. They dont mind a lot of irrigation in hot periods? 

[climate change virginia]

On 5/20/2019 at 6:21 PM, Ben in Norcal said:

B. yatay

whats their growing zone

[James B]

The growth rate on your Butia is awesome! Keeping my fingers crossed mine grows like that. Been in ground since spring. Still acclimating to full sun was under canopy at the nursery 

[thallo]

This thread inspired me to plant a Butia in my hellstrip last year (Sep 2019). It’s still quite small but has pushed 3- 4 new spikes. 

[NCFM]

On 5/3/2020 at 1:10 AM, JLM said:

Wow! Amazing! Maybe they are fast while they are young, then slow down a lot as they age.

I do believe that is the case. This 18 year old, 15+ ft tall b. odorata seems to gain less height per growing season as it has aged. It started to develop a bare trunk about five years ago:

[Palmfarmer]

On 10/22/2020 at 8:25 PM, Fusca said:

Wow, what a beefy trunk on that thing!  Makes me wonder if you've got a Butia x Jubaea.  That would explain the big trunk.  Either that or just due to variation in species.  Were there any Jubaea around when you collected that seedling?  Looks awesome!

would it not grow at a snails pace if it was crossed with Jubea? How fast are usually a Butia x Jubea?

[Fusca]

49 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

would it not grow at a snails pace if it was crossed with Jubea? How fast are usually a Butia x Jubea?

I think an F1 Butia x Jubaea would have enough hybrid vigor to grow faster than a regular Butia but from what I've read Jubaea x Butia F1 grows faster than BxJ.  I don't have experience with F1 BxJ but I have an F2 BxJ that grows at a snail's pace because it lacks the hybrid vigor and it looks just like a Butia as well.  I thought Steve's palm might be a hybrid due to the speed and the thick trunk, but since he got the seedling from the boots of a Butia the mother palm would have to be Butia - either plain Butia or Butia x Jubaea.

[ZPalms]

This thread has me excited to grow my own butia!  I just received a JXB can't wait to get it in the ground next year!!!

Edited July 27, 2021 by ZPalms

[Scott W]

@Sabal Steve truly impressive growth rate and the fact it flowered already is amazing!!!

Did you let it set seed and test germination on them?  Curious if the growth rate and early seed setting would be the same for it's offspring.

[Sabal Steve]

Here’s a few pictures that I took today.  The property owner has been keeping it pretty trimmed up, and cutting off the spathes.  The owner said that she hasn’t watered it in years.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Sabal Steve

[Sabal Steve]

On 11/17/2020 at 4:50 PM, thallo said:

This thread inspired me to plant a Butia in my hellstrip last year (Sep 2019). It’s still quite small but has pushed 3- 4 new spikes. 

How is your Butia doing?

[Merlyn]

On 10/23/2020 at 9:31 PM, Palmfarmer said:

I thought most butias was suspect to root rot if watered to much. They dont mind a lot of irrigation in hot periods? 

That might be the case in dense soil or clay.  In the loose FL sand they can take tons of water, 40-60 inches per year, with no issues.  One of the photos above is in 8B Oregon, which is cold and wet in the winter.  So I think (not sure) that it has to do with your local climate and soil.  Mine in the ground and in pots have only had issues during prolonged droughts.  They seem to grow the fastest just after our typical May drought ends and the June-September daily thunderstorms start.

As another reference for growth rate, the below Butia was about 6' tall when I planted it in June 2018.  The trunk was about 8" in diameter.  The Beccariophoenix Alfredii on the right was about 4-5' tall in the ground.  On the right is about the same perspective photo today.  The Butia is ~13' tall and 2' diameter, and that B. Alfredii is about 11-12' tall.  It's the shortest of the Alfredii, probably because storms keep on pushing it over.  It hasn't grown a solid enough root base yet, the other Alfredii all have better root structure and are 2-4' taller.

 

[Scott W]

On 8/22/2021 at 6:54 PM, Sabal Steve said:

Here’s a few pictures that I took today.  The property owner has been keeping it pretty trimmed up, and cutting off the spathes.  The owner said that she hasn’t watered it in years.

Good looking palm, and too bad you can't get seed from it, as it's be great to get seed from a Butia that fruited at a smaller size.

@Merlyn I lost a Butia at my old house that I planted in the side yard.  The area had a tendency to get mucky, even have standing water, so I would say that that definitely caused it's decline.  Outside of that I'll agree like most other palms drainage is key I to be able to handle lots of water.

[Merlyn]

16 hours ago, Scott W said:

I lost a Butia at my old house that I planted in the side yard.  The area had a tendency to get mucky, even have standing water, so I would say that that definitely caused it's decline.  Outside of that I'll agree like most other palms drainage is key I to be able to handle lots of water.

That makes sense, I can't recall seeing a Butia in a "low spot" around here that looked healthy and happy.  Almost all that I can think of (right now) have been on relatively high ground, or on a slope away from a house.  Mine are all in similar situations, either in super-well-draining sandy soil, planted relatively high, or on a slope.  The only one that had any fungal problems is getting hit by a sprinkler every morning.  I need to fix that, I just haven't gotten up the enthusiasm to dig up and completely redo the sprinkler setup on the West side yet... 

[thallo]

On 8/22/2021 at 3:59 PM, Sabal Steve said:

How is your Butia doing?

Doing great! I think it’s at the end of “creep” phase of sleep/creep/leap!

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

On 8/22/2021 at 6:54 PM, Sabal Steve said:

Here’s a few pictures that I took today.  The property owner has been keeping it pretty trimmed up, and cutting off the spathes.  The owner said that she hasn’t watered it in years.

Oh wow.  This entire thread I thought this was at your home.  So you planted it in front of some random house?   Maybe I'm confused.   Anyway that thing took off and it got FAT!  ha!   Wonder what they're feeding it?   They clearly trim it, and a bit too much at that.     Still a beautiful palm! 

I love these palms and where I am they get TALL.  I also agree they tend to slow down vertical growth with age.  Id imagine the very tall ones here are around 100 years old.  

[Palmfarmer]

How come the fronds are so short? are they cut shorter? 

[sregueiro91]

Hi everyone. Im an agronomist from Uruguay, which is the origin of both Butia species. 

Just to let everyone know, B. odorata and B. capitata are virtually the same species. I think it was around 2011 that the taxa has changed (capitata was the original name and odorata's the actual one).

On the other hand, i've read that someone thought odd the fact that according to a lot of people both Butias are slow growing species. 

I would like to say that at least in uruguayan latitudes we have a temperate climate (17°C mean annual temp, down to 10° C during winter) so in here they are known (and that's a fact) as being really slow in getting height. To some people, both butias can get around 5 or 6 meters tall in about 50 years...  Being said, i wouldn't be surprised if located in warmer climates they can grow way faster than that.

Regards to everyone! 

[Sabal Steve]

I was inspired by the other Butia progression thread.  Pictures are from Jan 2024.

[thallo]

5 yrs in the ground, planted Sep 2019

[Merlyn]

Here's a followup photo from *approximately* the same direction from the above 9/24/21 picture.  It has just about gotten overhead on the pathway.  It is now about 16' tall overall with roughly 2' of trunk.  The Alfredii on the right is about 20-22' tall.  It grew to maximum frond length pretty quick, but is also slow to gain trunk height.  For this area it's a bonus, as I just cut down a bunch of Queens due to the 2-4' of trunk per year growth rate.  I don't need 50' tall telephone poles/lightning rods here in the lightning capital of the world!