Germinating old Brahea seeds in less than 2 weeks?

[Grasswing]

Hello everyone,

it has been quite some time I posted something on Palmtalk, but now I am back and happy to see so much progress in your gardens!

Now the story:

In 2014 I received some Brahea sp. seeds from Phoenikakias, I tried them few times, but they didn't sprout and as the time passed I stopped trying and forgot that I still have some left. I rediscovered them them this April and got an idea to try "removing the lid" as I've read in topic posted by Cypalms and John in Andalucia (links bellow). And it really worked!

I removed pulp residue by sandpaper, soaked seeds for 2 minutes in 70% ethanol, then few more minutes in diluted bleach and placed in previously boiled distilled water for 2 days.

After soaking them for 2 days, I removed the area (operculum) above the embryo by scalpel to expose it. I tried to stay sterile as much as possible, to prevent bacteria/fungus contamination.

I placed prepared seeds in coco peat (also boiled for some time) so the embryos were a bit above the surface and placed them in incubator with constant temperature 30°C (86 F).

6 days later the embryo started to grow out:

Yesterday and today:

 

It really surprised me that even almost 4 years old seed of slow germinating species such as Brahea can sprout in less than two weeks using this technique, I encourage you to try it too!

I will try some other species such as Butia and see the results. I'll keep you updated!

Regards,

Ondra

Inspired by:

Cypalms:

John in Andalucia:

 

[Kris]

[DoomsDave]

Thanks @Grasswing! Look for some Franken Brahea seeds coming your way to experiment on. They're much much newer than 4 years old.

I think deserty-type plants have the ability to just wait till the time is right. Seems that jungle types lose viability much sooner.

[Silas_Sancona]

Congrats grasswing.. very interesting and might attempt this on some stubborn seed I have down atm. 

Dave is correct, seed from arid regions, especially those from Desert and Chaparral regions have a higher tendency for longer viability (Orthodox) after ripening as a pose to stuff from wetter tropical / temperate regions where a higher %'age of seed is considered recalcitrant ( tends to loose viability quickly after ripening) 

 A few Orthodox seed examples include Brahea, Washingtonia.. many (perhaps most) Legumes, Creosote bush, Chamise, most Cacti.. many annuals from such regions. Can endure moisture content as low as 5% in storage..

Recalcitrant examples can include Coconut, Cacao, Mango, Guaiacum sp,  Plumeria, and other sp/ genus in the same family, Tabebuia, Jacaranda.. among dozens of others.. killed when moisture content drops below 20-30% in storage, and are damaged by freezing temps.One reason you have to obtain the freshest seed possible when propagating these.

[John in Andalucia]

Well done, Grasswing! 

[PalmTreeDude]

I bet you can do this with many other palm seeds too, if you have some laying around that you know for sure are way to old to germinate with all of the seed coat/shell on, try this. 

[John in Andalucia]

23 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

I bet you can do this with many other palm seeds too, if you have some laying around that you know for sure are way to old to germinate with all of the seed coat/shell on, try this. 

By contrast, I tried this technique 8 years ago with some of the most expensive palm seeds on the planet. At the time, I understood that this palm had never been successfully germinated, so it really seemed like there was nothing to lose. Additionally, the seeds didn't cost me anything. They were donated by RPS for me to document my attempts at germination. The seedlings I subsequently raised didn't last long unfortunately, but it was an exciting time, nevertheless.

You can revisit my experiment here: Lavoixia macrocarpa

IPS Director Len, (LJG) had similar successes with this amazingly rare palm a couple of years later. Len's story is documented on his website: THE DE-LIDDING OF CLINOSPERMA MACROCARPA SEED

 

[PalmTreeDude]

6 hours ago, John in Andalucia said:

By contrast, I tried this technique 8 years ago with some of the most expensive palm seeds on the planet. At the time, I understood that this palm had never been successfully germinated, so it really seemed like there was nothing to lose. Additionally, the seeds didn't cost me anything. They were donated by RPS for me to document my attempts at germination. The seedlings I subsequently raised didn't last long unfortunately, but it was an exciting time, nevertheless.

You can revisit my experiment here: Lavoixia macrocarpa

IPS Director Len, (LJG) had similar successes with this amazingly rare palm a couple of years later. Len's story is documented on his website: THE DE-LIDDING OF CLINOSPERMA MACROCARPA SEED

 

Nice! Sorry to hear they died though, but hey, you germinated them! 

[Ilovepalm]

Congratulations! Grasswing  

[Fusca]

I just tried this technique with some old "Franken" Brahea seeds (armata x bandegeei) on Wednesday so hopefully I'll have some similar results...

[Jim in Los Altos]

Ondrej, Do you know what species of Brahea you have there? Congratulations on a job well done and the patience to do so! 

[Grasswing]

Thank you all for your kind comments!

 

On 19. 4. 2018, John in Andalucia said:

By contrast, I tried this technique 8 years ago with some of the most expensive palm seeds on the planet. At the time, I understood that this palm had never been successfully germinated, so it really seemed like there was nothing to lose. Additionally, the seeds didn't cost me anything. They were donated by RPS for me to document my attempts at germination. The seedlings I subsequently raised didn't last long unfortunately, but it was an exciting time, nevertheless.

You can revisit my experiment here: Lavoixia macrocarpa

IPS Director Len, (LJG) had similar successes with this amazingly rare palm a couple of years later. Len's story is documented on his website: THE DE-LIDDING OF CLINOSPERMA MACROCARPA SEED

 

Your experiment with Lavoixia was really great, it is a pity they didn't survive but I can imagine your excitement when they germinated! 

13 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Ondrej, Do you know what species of Brahea you have there? Congratulations on a job well done and the patience to do so! 

Thanks! I think that waiting months or even years for them to germinate requires more patience than this method.  I am not certain about the species, I remember there was a brief discussion in the "free brahea seeds" topic by @Phoenikakias and they settled on Brahea aculeata. Here is the topic: http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/43304-free-brahea-seeds/&page=2 What is your guess?

Regards,

Ondrej

[Mostapha]

On 4/18/2018, 4:16:30, PalmTreeDude said:

I bet you can do this with many other palm seeds too, if you have some laying around that you know for sure are way to old to germinate with all of the seed coat/shell on, try this. 

I'm thinking of Howea seeds, I have about 150 seeds that I've been waiting to show some type of movement. Been about 3 months now. Just not too sure exactly how to do this with them. Would like to try about 10 to see if there is any change in them. The fruit is gone from the seeds, and I checked a few and they still sink. 

If someone has any idea how I would expose the embryos without damaging them I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks Mark

[Grasswing]

15 hours ago, Mostapha said:

I'm thinking of Howea seeds, I have about 150 seeds that I've been waiting to show some type of movement. Been about 3 months now. Just not too sure exactly how to do this with them. Would like to try about 10 to see if there is any change in them. The fruit is gone from the seeds, and I checked a few and they still sink. 

If someone has any idea how I would expose the embryos without damaging them I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks Mark

Hello Mark,

I have some old Howea seeds from my trip to Madeira, and just from pure curiosity I broke the outter shell and tried to locate the embryo, it appears it is near the base of the seed, so I removed a bit of the cover and the endosperm. I placed them in tap water, and they didn't show any progress, but I didn't pay much attention doing the experiment so I will repeat it again and more professionally soon. Here are some photos that may help you, good luck!

[Fusca]

On 4/20/2018, 12:40:25, Fusca said:

I just tried this technique with some old "Franken" Brahea seeds (armata x bandegeei) on Wednesday so hopefully I'll have some similar results...

I just noticed one germinated - 10 days, not bad!

Jon

[Grasswing]

32 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I just noticed one germinated - 10 days, not bad!

Jon

Great job Jon, congrats!

Ondrej

[Grasswing]

Hello everyone,

here is a small update on my experimental Braheas. I've had about 90% success rate using this method.

I also tried the same experiment but with leaving the seeds with exposed embryos to soak in water for few days instead of placing them in coco peat right away. The seeds swole faster, but half of them died of mold after moving them to coco peat.

Anyway, here are the babies!

Regards,

Ondrej

[Mostapha]

They look great. That why I was thinking putting the seeds that I'm experimenting with in the coco coir. No signs of embryo ejection as of yet. 

Hope my results are just as good.

[Mostapha]

Tried removing the lid on one Brahea seed (courtesy of DoomsDave, thank you very much), this is the result so far. Hope I'm not jumping the gun. Going to put it in coconut coir tomorrow. Has me thinking to try a couple more. Only experimented with one.

[Grasswing]

Update on my experimental Brahea babies. They are doing really great so far! Lets see which potting mix they like the best.

[Mostapha]

They all look really nice and healthy, what potting mixtures are you using?

Hope mine do just as well. Just started a couple really fresh Bismarkias that were sent to me by a friend near Orlando to try to see how well they perform. He sent me 40 that had just fallen from the tree. Nice dark coloring and very viable seeds. The two I popped the lid on have both shown a nice plump button in two days (one in water, one in coco coir). I know they don't need this experiment just thought it would be nice to see if the fresher seed germinated faster.

Mark

[Grasswing]

1 minute ago, Mostapha said:

They all look really nice and healthy, what potting mixtures are you using?

Hope mine do just as well. Just started a couple really fresh Bismarkias that were sent to me by a friend near Orlando to try to see how well they perform. He sent me 40 that had just fallen from the tree. Nice dark coloring and very viable seeds. The two I popped the lid on have both shown a nice plump button in two days (one in water, one in coco coir). I know they don't need this experiment just thought it would be nice to see if the fresher seed germinated faster.

Mark

Thanks! I used three mixtures here - 1) "substrate for palms" - mostly coco coir and peat mixed with sand, but I would not recommend it. It is too heavy and it gets soggy easily. So I switched now to different substrates (inspired by @Pal Meir and others):

2) small LECA : perlite : pine bark : palm substrate = 1:1:1:0,5 (it drains really fast, maybe too fast)

3) antuka (it is shredded clay bricks and roof tiles - the particles are 2-4 mm big, used for tennis tournaments for example) : pine bark : LECA = 2:1:0,75. I like this one the best, I was trying to find some alternative to Seramis, and the antuka seems to work well too. But it is too soon to make conclusions, the time will tell.

Good luck with Bizzies!

Ondra

[Grasswing]

Hello everyone,

small update on my experimental Brahea.

I am surprised that they are growing pretty fast!

I transplanted first of them in a bigger pot, more to come soon.

I like the small hint of silver at a base of the leaves. Could anyone confirm it is Brahea aculeata at this stage or is it something else? Thanks!

Regards

Ondra

[happypalms]

Oh wow how nice to see palms in the  Czech Republic i was lucky enough to travel and see plitvice lakes one of the worlds most beautiful places your country is beautiful 

[SeanK]

I wonder if this will work with Rhapidophyllum. I have mature plants with multi-year's seeds never harvested.