Concern for Leilani Estates as lava moves eastward underground

[Moose]

4 minutes ago, WestCoastGal said:

We observed the differing maps here ourselves. Until USGS gets out to map and send coordinates or sends drones over the area, it's not something to count on. I do think they are getting the info from people on the ground as best they can and the google map usually says "estimated flow". I see the google community mapping project has already updated their maps to show what's going on by the GPV access road and from Pohoiki Road. I would rather see the projections I think, although we don't have property there. 

I see it from Scott's perspective that A. He is a property owner and resident

                                                           B. These are his neighbors

                                                           C. Everyone is already stressed. To think your property is destroyed and it's not. Or inaccessible. Or it's OK and it's actually crispy.

The maps are available. Scott probably did not want his name on something inaccurate. He has been very respectful to everyone, not putting a toe on private property without permission.

[Moose]

15 minutes ago, WestCoastGal said:

We observed the differing maps here ourselves. Until USGS gets out to map and send coordinates or sends drones over the area, it's not something to count on. I do think they are getting the info from people on the ground as best they can and the google map usually says "estimated flow". I see the google community mapping project has already updated their maps to show what's going on by the GPV access road and from Pohoiki Road. I would rather see the projections I think, although we don't have property there. 

BTW for people using the google Community Mapping Project to follow along, if you click on "A Community Mapping Project" it will drop down to show you a list of the most recent updates to the map.

 

I like the maps as it helps conceptualize what's going on. Nothing is perfect, confirmation and accuracy does come around. But when you got skin in the game, especially if it's your primary residence, I can see how these maps can be disconcerting to those who are affected. Lack of information and uncertainty can be unsettling.

[WestCoastGal]

No I totally agree. His viewers, including me, were all concerned about whether Bill and his wife made it out of there okay. I was kind of surprised he pointed out Bill's house. After meeting people on camera though it's hard not to feel a connection with the residents there and a lot of empathy. I saw a comment someone made on one of his videos that they heard locals expressing not liking that someone was going by the burning house filming like it was a tour (think this was the video with the firefighters standing outside). When I asked Scott about going to the house with the giant cracks underneath, he said he wouldn't film if he didn't have their permission (pretty sure I mentioned that in prior post). He does try to balance things and I think does a pretty good job. If you're the guy next door to the home that burns down I think you'd also want to know that. Something professional news reporters/videographers, station managers have to deal with all the time.

As a homeowner I think you really only want to focus on the USGS maps for confirmation but be aware your location might be in the lava's path.

[WestCoastGal]

Mileka has an update after speaking with PGV officials about the lava heading towards them now. I'm just going to link again to her page. This is from a post at 9am HST. There's a video someone shared as well taken near the access road. https://www.facebook.com/pg/milekalincoln.hnn/posts/?ref=page_internal

Thing to keep in mind having watched Travis film as lava crossed over from Leilani Estates to the warehouse property, you do have some time in many of these cases (not if a lava pond had a breakout) and PGV does have a rear access road to use.

[WestCoastGal]

Travis Sanders (FB LavaNews) has a few new posts. The first one is from a tip he received from the police scanner that the flow reached PGV entrance road and the warehouse is on fire.

The second post on his site is about Kent Anderson and the home he lost. He lived near Shane's warehouse and from where Travis was filming on the rooftop. He talks about Kent's home and posted a video Kent wanted to share with people. You can see to the side of the house the nice refrigerator that Travis mentioned in one of his videos that they managed to save before the lava got it. To all these friends, neighbors and even strangers who volunteered (from places like the Info Supply Hub) to truck out people's more valuable belongings to safety, just kudos. Moving even on a scheduled moving day is hard enough but under pressure from lava, something else. A real God send when it comes to starting over from scratch.

PGV and Kent's house for those unaware are/were located down from Pohoiki Road near the lava lakes in that area. Link to Travis' page:  https://www.facebook.com/pg/lavanews/posts/?ref=page_internal

For a more uplifting item here's a video with Shane on his tour boat (Lava Ocean Tours) this morning out by the lava entry at the coast. Hopefully he gets to fill up his tour boat with lots of visitors to the island. Love this time of day when the colors are all kind of pastel. https://www.facebook.com/lavanews/videos/210789969711308/

 

 

[Moose]

1 hour ago, Moose said:

It was Scott's video, going over a google map with lava flow overlay.

By the way, Scott said in an earlier video that fissure 8 is approximately 2 miles from his property. The source of the cinders landing in his yard.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Moose

[Dave-Vero]

The latest thermal map shows the big, broad lava coverage in Leilani Estates from Fissure 8.  

[Moose]

Fissure 8 this morning

[WestCoastGal]

3 minutes ago, Dave-Vero said:

The latest thermal map shows the big, broad lava coverage in Leilani Estates from Fissure 8.  

I wish they were able to update their maps in a more timely manner. Maybe the process isn't there yet for them. With the way things have been going eruption/lava flow-wise, the landscape is changing so rapidly there. Many times in the recent past few days when they came out with a map I was almost hesitant to post as it was dated already and I knew from other sources lava was encroaching on neighborhood streets not marked. Didn't want people to look at it and rely on it at that moment. Funny how years ago we didn't have all this technology and now we really expect news almost immediately.

[WestCoastGal]

Fissure 8 has been a surprise in how much and how long it has been pumping out fountains and lava. Must have a direct line to volumes of magma where other fissures don't seem to have quite the same productivity.

[Palmaceae]

May be a stupid question but I have heard some news outlets saying after the lava stops the cleanup will begin. So what does happen after the volcano settles down and the lava flow stops. How does one clean up from this?

[Dave-Vero]

I think Scott showed a road that was reopened after 2014 lava had crossed it.  Unless it's very thin, removing lava isn't practical, and it takes a very long time to turn to soil.

[Dypsisdean]

26 minutes ago, Palmaceae said:

May be a stupid question but I have heard some news outlets saying after the lava stops the cleanup will begin. So what does happen after the volcano settles down and the lava flow stops. How does one clean up from this?

The short answer is "as best as they can."

Looking at the map of the island you can see the paths of countless past lava flows since man arrived here - and many occurred in recent history. After the lava cools and volcanic activity has stopped (when determined by the powers that be) the main roads are re-opened, necessary water lines and electricity/telephone/cable to existing communities are re-connected. And then whether to start over in the heavily impacted areas are decisions that are made going forward - just like before.

For example, the international airport in Kona is built on an old flow. In fact, everything is built on an "old flow." People still own their property, even though it may be 20-30 feet higher and there is no access. But many people who live in active areas are a tough breed, and may choose to build off the grid and use whatever works to get to their property. And many places get built without the necessary permits, etc. But we will see how that goes. I have a feeling that some policies and "business as usual" will be undergoing some changes.

It will be case by case I'm sure - with many factors in play, and may be contingent on government decisions for the more conventional development.  For example, Leilani Estates is a semi-private community. So, whether the money and will to reconstruct, and to what degree, will depend on what comes next - this is not yet over. But as far as nature goes the landscape will slowly blend in with everything else over time - because as mentioned above, almost everything in this area has already been built on pre-existing, fairly recent flows.

[WestCoastGal]

Another video, posted 1 hour ago, by fb Isaac Krakauer. Steam coming from F10 area (Pomaikai, Malama side). Glad people are continuing to monitor some of these older mentioned fissures and cracks. https://www.facebook.com/isaac.krakauer/videos/1733147826772841/

This was his fb video of the same house from the 24th. https://www.facebook.com/isaac.krakauer/videos/1728392140581743/

 

The second video was posted to the google mapping project and I think places it maybe next door to the house on Pomaikai that Bo ( @bgl )had shared photos of when he was there. Actually it's the same house from his photos: 

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/56512-concern-for-leilani-estates-as-lava-moves-eastward-underground/&do=findComment&comment=847985 ;

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/56512-concern-for-leilani-estates-as-lava-moves-eastward-underground/&do=findComment&comment=848009 ; 

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/56512-concern-for-leilani-estates-as-lava-moves-eastward-underground/&do=findComment&comment=848186 

Given this was activity moving further back towards Hwy 130 and its been steaming like that (can't imagine going into the house like that even with resperators on), have to wonder if pressure isn't building up closer to Hwy 130 now and we'll see more activity back down that way again. F8 isn't that far away from Malama and look what it's been producing over the last few days. No movement of earthquake locations outside of that area for some time.

Edited May 29, 2018 by WestCoastGal
added bo's linked photos for progression of cracking

[Moose]

Sorry, Lame

Edited May 29, 2018 by Moose

[Moose]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCtleYCXmI4

PGV Power Plant (Like watching paint dry)

Edited May 29, 2018 by Moose

[Dypsisdean]

42 minutes ago, Dave-Vero said:

I think Scott showed a road that was reopened after 2014 lava had crossed it.  Unless it's very thin, removing lava isn't practical, and it takes a very long time to turn to soil.

Depending on the importance of the road, anything is practical. And in many cases where the lava may be extensive, a new road can just be laid down over the new lava. In fact, don't forget, most of the roads are just that - laid down over already existing old lava - smooth out the high spots, fill in the low, and pave.

Here is a new highway on the Kona side being built over the top of an old lava flow.

[Palmaceae]

57 minutes ago, Dypsisdean said:

The short answer is "as best as they can."

Looking at the map of the island you can see the paths of countless past lava flows since man arrived here - and many occurred in recent history. After the lava cools and volcanic activity has stopped (when determined by the powers that be) the main roads are re-opened, necessary water lines and electricity/telephone/cable to existing communities are re-connected. And then whether to start over in the heavily impacted areas are decisions that are made going forward - just like before.

For example, the international airport in Kona is built on an old flow. In fact, everything is built on an "old flow." People still own their property, even though it may be 20-30 feet higher and there is no access. But many people who live in active areas are a tough breed, and may choose to build off the grid and use whatever works to get to their property. And many places get built without the necessary permits, etc. But we will see how that goes. I have a feeling that some policies and "business as usual" will be undergoing some changes.

It will be case by case I'm sure - with many factors in play, and may be contingent on government decisions for the more conventional development.  For example, Leilani Estates is a semi-private community. So, whether the money and will to reconstruct, and to what degree, will depend on what comes next - this is not yet over. But as far as nature goes the landscape will slowly blend in with everything else over time - because as mentioned above, almost everything in this area has already been built on pre-existing, fairly recent flows.

Thanks Dean for explaining this! I pray this nightmare will end soon for the residents there.

[WestCoastGal]

This is definitely not what you want to see when you come downstairs for coffee and look out your window. Amazing photo, clickable for a zoomed view, wonder if it stopped there. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10211953391813273&set=a.1730374742308.207861.1326667768&type=3&theater&ifg=1

[WestCoastGal]

Regarding the post I made a few posts back that I thought was the same property at Pomaikai/Malama that Bo ( @bgl ) posted some photos of I just watched this video from Ikaika Marzo from the 23rd of the same home Isaac's videos show and now can tell this was the house next to the one Bo toured the yard of. Interesting to listen to Ikaika's as you watch them walking around the yard there. https://www.facebook.com/ikaika.marzo/videos/1812184432167418/

I hope people in Upper Leilani and those directly down rift from here in LE are seeing these videos (especially the ones from Today and on the 24th from Isaac Krakauer). With massive cracks like these and widening in the last few days and now tons of steam (the people were all wearing respirators so not sure about SO2) but we've seen this happen too often down on Kahukai. 

Here's a google Community Mapping Project map of the area around there that I just generated:

[WestCoastGal]

Found this Hawaii County Civil Defense Flickr site with photos courtesy of the Hawaii Fire Department. Aerial videos and photos. This Flickr photo page is from yesterday, Monday, 5/28. These gov't helicopters can fly lower and have super close up views. The photos in the album are clickable for a zoom view.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141970887@N04/sets/72157669516635428/with/42368146362/

 

And OMG I recognize this place. It's the one I was just posting about over at Pomaikai and now I think I can tell it's the same property as the one Bo was at ( @bgl )! Sorry I didn't figure it out earlier. I knew Bo mentioned that their neighbor also had cracking back several weeks ago so just wasn't sure. 

Photo by: Hawaii County Civil Defense

And in this photo below this house to the left appears to me to be the house that was in the papers about to fall into the huge cracks. That would make it at Moku very closer Malama on the google Community Mapping Project.

Photo by: Hawaii County Civil Defense

Notice in both photos there was previous lava flow near them and steaming at present.

Guessing that's Shane's Ocean Lava Tours boat out there in the coastline photos. Also photos of the lava at PVG.

This cracked cone is interesting looking.

Photo by: Hawaii County Civil Defense

If you want to go back in time check out the albums from 5/26, 5/24, 5/22 and 5/21:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141970887@N04/albums/with/72157669516635428

[Pando]

39 minutes ago, WestCoastGal said:

And in this photo below this house to the left appears to me to be the house that was in the papers about to fall into the huge cracks. That would make it at Moku very closer Malama on the google Community Mapping Project.

Photo by: Hawaii County Civil Defense

The house with the solar panels is the house on Moku with the Marojejyas Bo was posting about earlier. So sad, looks like that whole area will be under a mountain of lava in a few days.

 

[WestCoastGal]

37 minutes ago, Pando said:

The house with the solar panels is the house on Moku with the Marojejyas Bo was posting about earlier. So sad, looks like that whole area will be under a mountain of lava in a few days.

 

Pando you're right! I hadn't made the connection with upper Moku duh--and my favorite house. While the house looks in good shape they have cracks running in the back of the yard too. And now I see that's Scott and Doing Hawaii's frequently video'd sulfur lot next door to it with the sulfur cone in front of what was the house. Assume that the house had a metal roof since it's still there? Seems to be the only way sometimes you knew there was a house there at one time.

From another Album: This must be 130 and 132 and the Info Supply Hub:

Photo by: Hawaii County Civil Defense

And yet from another Album: Look how much higher the lava lake is above the road in this photo. I'm not sure where it is but notice that the road has a yellow dividing stripe that might help indicate where.

Photo by: Hawaii County Civil Defense

 

 

[Mike in LB]

This aerial photo from the Hawaii Civil Defense (Flickr site) shows how close the lava has come to north Nohea St.  My house is circled.

[WestCoastGal]

Now that is close in that photo but your photo was even closer! Any idea what's happening down in your area? Were you allowed down there today?

[WestCoastGal]

Big Island Video News has this posted as of 11 am HST (2pm PDT). Includes various road closure and update information including that only residents with placards can access 137 beyond 4 Corners/Red Road, updates from USGS about the Summit explosion today, and info on 2 community meeting changes: 1st at Pahoa HS cafeteria at 5pm HST (this is 1/2 hour earlier). 2nd meeting update is for the Dept of Health discussion of vog and ash exposure in the Ka'u District. The venue on this has been changed to Robert Herkes Gym Emergency Shelter in Pahala at 5:30pm HST.

http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/05/29/video-1-pm-eruption-update-11-am-conference-call/

[Pando]

1 hour ago, WestCoastGal said:

And yet from another Album: Look how much higher the lava lake is above the road in this photo. I'm not sure where it is but notice that the road has a yellow dividing stripe that might help indicate where.

Photo by: Hawaii County Civil Defense

This is at Pohiki and Leilani intersection.

[WestCoastGal]

Mileka had this post on her fb page about the lava crossing over into PGV (with a video). The height of the 'a'a lava there is rather astounding to me. I can't imagine digging that out. That will be some job. I wonder what the fate of the plant ultimately will be. 

https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1796323507093202/

Here's another video from her fb: https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1793910987334454/

 

 

[WestCoastGal]

6 minutes ago, Pando said:

This is at Pohiki and Leilani intersection.

How that landscape has changed.  Thanks for ID'ing the area.

[WestCoastGal]

Mileka Lincoln's fb page has an inside video (no sound) of the grounds inside the PGV plant. Thought it might be of interest as we've only seen aerial footage before. This was taken on Sunday when the lava had reached the pool of water near one of the well heads.

https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1796404150418471/

[WestCoastGal]

Lava crossed Hwy 132 moving east from Pohoiki Road. Here's a time lapse video from Demian Barrios (Db Photo at Primary Focus) posted 2 hours ago. As mentioned HELCO was out disconnecting the main power lines that supply all of Kapoho.

https://www.facebook.com/350778808336211/videos/vb.350778808336211/1715688401845238/?type=2&theater

Speaking of utility lines, this article in Hawaii News Nows reports that the eruptions have destroyed or damaged more than 400 utlity poles and power is out to Kapoho, including Vacationland Hawaii and Kapoho Beach Lots; Lanipuna Gardens; Leilani Estates (Moku to Mohala including all connecting road; areas along Hwy 132. 

I was on Honolulu Civil Beat's Live feed earlier and they had gotten info that 132 was being closed and were discussing ways out from the property. Didn't listen long enough to the feed to get a feel for how long someone will be there. Here's a screen grab from the camera from around that time:

 

Here's an update from Anthony of Honolulu Civil Beat regarding the feed. Video streamed live 3 hours ago:

 

 

[WestCoastGal]

Here's what USGS Volcanologists and Geologists do every day down in Leilani Estates:

 

[WestCoastGal]

Posted at 7pm HST from Mileka Lincoln's fb page, showing video of F8 by Luana that keeps on pumping out fountains as high as 200 ft. 

https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1796532913738928/

 

[WestCoastGal]

Some USGS updates for you:

USGS Alert Update as of Tues, 5/29, 4:51pm HST (7:51pm PDT) was posted. 

A few new photos from the reduced ocean entry of the lava, F8 reactivated, the Tephra ejected from F8 and carried downwind, radar image of enlargement of Summit vent of Halema'uma'u. 

No new map posted yet.

[WestCoastGal]

Travis Sanders (FB LavaNews) posted about an hour ago that on their way back from the ocean entry they saw a large flow headed almost directly for the hot ponds. 

The USGS' alert tonight reported that the ocean entry had slowed down so curious what the map and/or overflights will show. For that area assume it's coming down from F20-17 area but haven't looked at the decent map yet.

OK here's the last USGS map we have right now. The decent line to the Pohoiki warm springs would be immediately to the right of Isaac Hale Park. The Ahalanui Warm ponds would be to the second decent line to the right of Isaac Hale Park. While the 4:51pm alert today indicated that there was weak activity at F18 and 19, it did state that F18 had produced channelized flows that advanced 1.6 miles toward the coast. 

Decided to check google's Community Mapping Project and it does look like the flow to the Ahalanui Warm Ponds would come from F18.

[WestCoastGal]

Big Island Video News coverage of the the Puna eruption meeting at the high school tonight. Mayor Kim spoke mostly on the topic of Leilani Estates. Think that was a tough painful talk he made. Important change for Leilani Estates, if you choose to stay in an at risk zone, they will not come in to get you, you are on your own.

I'll see if I can find the USGS scientist portion of the meeting.

[WestCoastGal]

Mileka interviews Luana Jones on her fb page. She and her husband, Richard, have lived in their home for 36 years and just lost it the other night. https://www.facebook.com/milekalincoln.hnn/videos/1796605437065009/

[WestCoastGal]

Here's the latest Leilani map using ARCgis online. Notice that the mandatory evacuation area (outlined in red) now includes every street including Pomaikai, Moku, Kapono, Nohea, and street east of them. 

[WestCoastGal]

County meeting on budget issues due to eruption. 

http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2018/05/29/video-county-struggles-to-fund-eruption-response-balance-budget/

[WestCoastGal]

USGS map update as of Tues., 5/29 @ 6pm HST (9pm PDT):

Map: US Geological Survey