Carpoxylon macrospermum

[Palmarum]

Jeff Searle in front of one of his Carpoxylons. These photos were taken about 3 months ago at his nursery, and the palm has since gotten even larger. A true favorite of mine, Carpoxylon macrospermum will become one of the best all-around palms in the world.

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Ryan

[MattyB]

Kim, Jungle Music has them.  I'd call first because Bill and I were searching for them this weekend and only found a couple.  Try table 57, 59, 61 area, they're buried in there somewhere.  They were either 2 gallon or 5 gallon sizes.

[cfkingfish]

Jeff, here is a picture of your Carpoxylon in May of '05 during Palmfest:

[spockvr6]

(Palmarum @ Aug. 02 2006,00:11)

QUOTE

Jeff Searle in front of one of his Carpoxylons. These photos were taken about 3 months ago at his nursery, and the palm has since gotten even larger. A true favorite of mine, Carpoxylon macrospermum will become one of the best all-around palms in the world.

Fantastic!

About how old is that palm Jeff?

And....is there any chance for this palm in a protected location in central FL?  Say.....something about 1.5 miles from the coast in Tarpon Springs and near the house where it cannot see frost?

[bgl]

Larry,

I won't answer for Jeff, but I believe I have some general information. I bought my initial three little skinny seedlings from Floribunda in Feb 1996. These had presumably been germinated some time during the summer of 1995. As far as I know this seed batch was the very first Carpoxylon seed batch that showed up, period. Judging by the size of Jeff's, it looks like his could have been from that same batch. If you look at the "group" shot that I took (see page 1), all the larger ones are from that batch. The smaller ones are from a second batch of seeds that Floribunda received a few years later, probably mid 1997.

Here's another shot of a Carpoxylon. I believe I posted this one in the 'Bugseye view' thread, or whatever the name was!

Bo-Göran

[bgl]

Forgot the photo....

[BigFrond]

Looks like Jeff is in love.

Bo,

Both yours and Jeff look very nice.  I noticed the yours have the orange shaft while Jeff's is green.  Could they both come from the same batch?  Could the different climate cause the different colors?

WOW!  I just have to get a few of these.

[bgl]

BigFrond,

they only have the orange color right after an old crownshaft falls off. Then it gradually turns green. I'll post two comparison shots so you can see.

Bo-Göran

First, the green (older) crownshaft.

[bgl]

And here's a newly exposed orange crownshaft.

[BigFrond]

Wow!  Thanks for the info and pix Bo!  I guess it would be a bonus when the crownshaft gets old.  You get a nice color and not far behind, another ring on the trunk.

[BS Man about Palms]

Heres a quick pic of my two recently purchased from Jungle Music.

You can even see the cute little bulge on the 5 gal one.

[Kim]

Ok, I joined the Carpoxylon macrospermum club today, too.  Pictures coming in 10 years...

[BS Man about Palms]

Congrats Kim! , did you make the trek to JM?

Bill

[Jeff Searle]

Kim,

   Way to go, welcome to the club! Give it plenty of water during the dry months. BTW, what size did you find?

[Kim]

Bill & Jeff:

I "happened" to stop in JM on my way home from Santa Barbara and picked up a 5-gal.  It was the 'last one' until I expressed a desire for 3.  There may or may not be more.  But given the price (stiff), I thought I'd wait and see if I can keep this one happy first before shelling out too many clams.  I hope Matty B is getting a commission on these. ::

It's going in the ground very near a major sprinkler head, so water won't be a problem, and I'll use my new 'palm volcano' method of planting to assure good drainage.  It will also get some sun protection for awhile. I sure hope it likes Point Loma, it's such a gorgeous palm!  Do I sound excited?  Yes!  I'm excited!

[BS Man about Palms]

Kim,

I hope it does great for all of us!   When I left last Sundays sale around 2 pm, Rusty helped me find I think 4? 5 gal ones and the 2 gal one I got.  I think Matt got one of the 4 ..... you have one too.  I found that Slick willy Matt got while looking for the 2 gal.  

  There were all on different benches, just spread out.

[Matt in SD]

That's cool Kim,

Are you going to plant it now?  Given the number of people that are going to try them now, this really should be a pretty fair test.  I have a nice 7g plant in my greenhouse that I got at Jungle Music as a seedling nearly 3 years ago (Nov 1, 2003 to be exact).  I think I have a spot picked out, and it will be getting planted next spring.  I'm going to go for nearly full sun near the South wall of my house.

It is clear from it's performance in Florida, and in my unheated greenhouse that for us coastal folks, COOL tolerance will be the real test rather than straight out cold tolerance.  In my greenhouse, it grows nearly as fast in winter (with many nights into the 40s F) as it does in the summer.

Matt

[Walter John]

Mine are still bifed leaf stage, but I think I'll plant one of them anyway. The other two can wait another year.

[MattyB]

Congrats Kim!  I must have missed you.  I was there all day ths Saturday until about 3pm.  I thought they were all gone too.  Nice find.  If you spend enough time looking around that jungle, you'll be surprised at what you can find.  There's always about 3-5 last ones.

[Sdeez3]

OK.....Looks like I will have to take a trip out to JM to find me a 5 gallon one. I envy the people who already have these BEAUTIFUL palms........After showing some of these pictures to the Mrs., she was just as excited as I am in obtaining one of these. Thanks for all of the info.......

[BS Man about Palms]

(Kim @ Aug. 06 2006,16:22)

QUOTE

Bill & Jeff:

I "happened" to stop in JM on my way home from Santa Barbara and picked up a 5-gal.  It was the 'last one' until I expressed a desire for 3.  There may or may not be more.  But given the price (stiff), I thought I'd wait and see if I can keep this one happy first before shelling out too many clams.  I hope Matty B is getting a commission on these. ::

It's going in the ground very near a major sprinkler head, so water won't be a problem, and I'll use my new 'palm volcano' method of planting to assure good drainage.  It will also get some sun protection for awhile. I sure hope it likes Point Loma, it's such a gorgeous palm!  Do I sound excited?  Yes!  I'm excited!

Kim!

 After talking to several folks about the Carpoxylon off line, several folks think heat will be the problem, not sun.  If you haven't planted it yet, consider a more sunny spot with a "shadecloth teepee" maybe on an east side for the early morning heat after a cool night.   Also put some of those nice black rocks around the base to hold some overnight warmth!

I think it may survive "coastally" ? But will need help!

Bill

[Kim]

Bill:  Oooo.  Sun means a different location than I had planned.  Have to think this over.  I was going to plant it this weekend in an area where it would grow into sun, but not get too much south and west exposure while young.  It would get morning sun and filtered mid-day sun.  As far as the black rocks, that's my new standard of planting.  All palms go in a low berm with black lava rock on top, hence the 'palm volcano'.

Since I became more serious about palms, I've lost 4;  one fried in the sun, one to indoor spider mites, one suffocated in heavy wet soil, and one was looking bad when I got it.  I've had some brown tips on a bottle palm from cold, but nothing more serious.  The prime sun locations are taken by my Hyophorbe verschaffeltiis.  But the H. lagenacaulis, which is dead center, full sun, is in a pot and could be moved....

Feedback???  I want to get this in the ground!

Are the cold tolerances known for this palm?  I thought it was from the high, cooler, inland elevations on Vanuatu, which could make it an okay bet for coastal San Diego.

[bgl]

Kim,

I don't know anything about the cold tolerance, but I don't believe it's from a high elevation. An Encyclopedia of Cultivated Palms says "...grows in the rain forest at low elevations...". And Vanuatu of course is tropical, so a Carpoxylon in the wild probably wouldn't see temps below 58-60F. Just a wild guess. Needless to say, that doesn't tell us what the cold hardiness of the palm is.

Bo-Göran

[MattyB]

I just got one (5 gallon) but one of the lower leaves is getting sunburnt.  It gets sun until about 1:00.  This is in my greenhouse under 40% shade cloth.  Sounds like your location and plan to let it grow into the sun when it gets older is a good one.  Alot of palms just love that morning sun and a break after that (filtered light seems better than shade though).

[Matt in SD]

Kim,

If you plant it in sun now, it will burn and not have time to recover before winter.  I don't think it would stand a chance at all.  It's best to acclimate stuff to sun in the early spring so that they can put out good leaves all summer.  You could put shade cloth up (or plant bananas around it...that's what I've been doing).  Then take it off in spring, or just leave the south side up and the sun will gradually hit it towards summer.  If you want to get really hardcore, you could build a mini-greenhouse around it for this winter (since you're planting a bit late), and then give it a real test next winter.

But, if the spot you were planning is a warm spot in your garden, I think growing into sun might be fine.  Not all shady spots are cool.  I have an area on the north side of my patio that is very warm from reflected heat, for example.  

Matt

PS.  I hope one of your deaths wasn't the Clinostigma I picked up for you?

[Jeff Searle]

Larry,

   My Carp. was planted 7 years ago from a 7gal. pot and was 5' tall. It now measures 14' tall, with 3' of gray wood.

 Kim,

      I found here, that they need to be about 4' tall before they can be planted out in full sun. They usually burn if their smaller. And so far, they have taken at least 30 degrees and has shown no damage. But our cold snaps are short lived and it can warm up into the 80's within a couple of days.

   More importantly,  for the first time, we have found out that these palms are extreamly wind resistance.  After Hurricane Wilma, all 4 of my large ones that were planted at the nursery and my house, did not have one broken leaf! Not one. Winds in excess of 100 plus MPH.

[Kim]

Here's what I found on a European Palm Society site:

"Carpoxylon macrospermum prefers well-drained, moist, rich soils on valley slopes, in riverine areas and coastal forests. It grows best in sheltered, partially shady locations. Healthy stands have also been found in abandoned settlements in the high, cooler inland areas of the island of Malekula. The seedlings tend to grow close to the mother trees in amongst the forest undergrowth, on ground well furnished with leaf litter and humus."  

Right, so how high is high, and how cool is cool?  Probably not very high and not very cool, as the maximum height of the island I now read is only 879m/2883ft.  But it sounds like the youngsters need some cover, for sure.  A temporary mini-greenhouse might be wise.  A perfect fun project for the architect DH! Oh, I'm looking forward to that conversation...

Matt:  the clinostigma is looking good, no worries!  Taking the sun like a champ now, too.  It was the previous clinostigma that perished in the mud!

[DoomsDave]

Hmm.

Be curious to see how they do in California, the Land of the Big Orgy.

dave

[MattyB]

This will definately be a fun one for us to try.

[Matt in SD]

Let's just hope the "fun" lasts more than a few months.  Given the speed and ease that these grow in unheated greenhouses (they grow through the winter), it is absolutely going to be a cool tolerance test, so we probably won't know until well into the spring/early summer.

That's great info Jeff.  Mine is about 3' tall now and may be up to 4' by the time I'm ready to plant next spring.  So hopefully it will be ready for some sun.  Also I cut a large tree down near my greenhouse and the Carpie's clearly feeling the extra sun, putting out some shorter leaves with more densely packed leaflets.  The acclimation has begun!

Matt

[MattyB]

Matt, I know you have tinted panels but I forgot the tint %.  What is it?  Thanks.

[Matt in SD]

50%, but they are clear (i.e. not opaque) and I think this is closer to "direct" sunlight than opaque panels at 50% light transmission.

Matt

[DoomsDave]

Kim:

Buy small.  Fanatic I am, but extravagant, I ain't, and we're still young enough to see growth in the palms.

dave

[BS Man about Palms]

(Kim @ Aug. 10 2006,13:08)

QUOTE

Bill:  Oooo.  Sun means a different location than I had planned.  Have to think this over.  I was going to plant it this weekend in an area where it would grow into sun, but not get too much south and west exposure while young.  It would get morning sun and filtered mid-day sun.  As far as the black rocks, that's my new standard of planting.  All palms go in a low berm with black lava rock on top, hence the 'palm volcano'.

Since I became more serious about palms, I've lost 4;  one fried in the sun, one to indoor spider mites, one suffocated in heavy wet soil, and one was looking bad when I got it.  I've had some brown tips on a bottle palm from cold, but nothing more serious.  The prime sun locations are taken by my Hyophorbe verschaffeltiis.  But the H. lagenacaulis, which is dead center, full sun, is in a pot and could be moved....

Feedback???  I want to get this in the ground!

Are the cold tolerances known for this palm?  I thought it was from the high, cooler, inland elevations on Vanuatu, which could make it an okay bet for coastal San Diego.

Kim-

  A lot of what I had mentioned is based on what I believe your microclimate is in Point Loma.  (Having worked down there on many ocassions!)  AND what I saw at DypsisDeans earlier this year....he has a beautiful place here in Encinitas also and has many palms that I had read are "shade loving" planted in nearly full sun and they looked beautiful!   The catch point is...He is within a 1/2 mile or so of the coast and as you know a LOT of days have some partial over cast and this is kinda like mother Natures shade cloth.  So, since I know you have coastal water on both sides of you, I figured full sun, but with a shadecloth "teepee" to acclimate.

I figure anyone within about 1-maybe 2 miles of the coast has the same deal, so I'm eventually going to have a lot of my stuff in full sun.

Note: this is for the So Cal folks, not ness. anyone else!

Bill

[Kim]

Well the obvious answer to this debate is to plant multiple specimens in varying locations and see what works!  Anyone care to donate some Carpoxylon macrospermums for this experiment?

[Walter John]

(Kim @ Aug. 12 2006,00:46)

QUOTE

Well the obvious answer to this debate is to plant multiple specimens in varying locations and see what works!  Anyone care to donate some Carpoxylon macrospermums for this experiment?

Okay, I'll plant all 3 of my baby Carpoxylons in a couple of months. I'll do a photo check every 6 months, how's that for a plan ?

[Tyrone]

Well you guys have all convinced me to try this in West Oz. I have 10 seeds on the way from RPS. Being seeds I will be seriously behind all of you who have wonderful places like Jungle Music to visit to get stock already growing, but I don't mind. Anyone know how easy these are to get going from seed? Fresh seed gives roughly what germination percentage?

regards

Tyrone

[RainForestt Robert]

I have 5 plants from the 10 seed I bought last year

[Jeff Searle]

(Tyrone @ Aug. 11 2006,23:07)

QUOTE

Well you guys have all convinced me to try this in West Oz. I have 10 seeds on the way from RPS. Being seeds I will be seriously behind all of you who have wonderful places like Jungle Music to visit to get stock already growing, but I don't mind. Anyone know how easy these are to get going from seed? Fresh seed gives roughly what germination percentage?

regards

Tyrone

Tyrone, if the seed are fresh, you should get a good percentage of them to come up. Last year I bought 2000 seed and got almost 1700 plants to germinate!

    I was worried at first, because all the seed floated in water. So, I soaked them in 2, 45gallon garbage cans with another can on top filled with water, and the weight of this forcing them under. I soaked them for 2 weeks, which most all sank after the two weeks. So I ended up with over 85% germination.

[Okie]

I bought a bunch of seeds as well.  I soaked them in water and EVERY one of them floated.  I thought this was just wonderful and considered throwing them out. However, I said what the hell and sowed them anyway.  ALL of them germinated!