California Cocos 1-2-3 ...

[Cristóbal]

PART 1

Many people try to grow the cocos nucifera in southern california but most the cocos die for many reasons. I wish share with people trying to grow them what I learn growing them with beginning of 1997 to now.

In 1997 a friend give to me a cocos in a pot. I put it in the outside, and in the winter 1997-1998 it died. To much rain and rot in roots.  In this time I live by the ocean in Tijuana, so frost and freeze no problem, but I learn the cocos does not like the rain in winter in the more cool weather.

In 1998 I get 4 cocos to try again. In this time, I take the cocos out of the pots, and put in very large white pots about 1 meter x 1 meter sand from beach, and plant the cocos in the sand.

For next 4 years, I have the cocos in thes very large pots in the sand, sun for half day in afternoon. I protect the cocos from rain in winter.  I only lose 1 coco in the first year, this I feel from transplant, it did not do good when I plant it in the large pot.

In these 4 years 1998-2002, the 3 cocos become very large much over 2 meters high and starting to have trunk. In february 2003 I move to a different part in Tijuana 15 kilometers/9 miles from the ocean a very good place high on hill and sun all day. I dig very deep holes, bring much more sand from the beach and put the 3 cocos in the ground.

This foto is not of my cocos but mine 3 looked much like this, with some trunk:

When I put them in the ground, in the sand in the new place, the cocos were very happy for two weeks. Than we have 1 week no break or stopping of very hot dry santa ana winds of 120 kilometers/70 miles and this kill all 3 my cocos. I was very mad and sad for long time for what happen for I do much work for long time for the cocos.

In the same time 2003, my friend say he want to plant a coco. He buyed 2 small cocos, put them in ground, in all day sun, in his house about 10 kilometers/6 miles from ocean. They were ok all the spring summer, fall, and winter….but when the rain start in the winter, they died.

OK –  I think - whats happening ?  I think much of everything that happens to thes cocos, and from this is what I learn ….

1. SOIL – The soil for Baja California and for Southern California is clays and many rocks. This mean, that when its wet, its wet for long, long time. NOT GOOD. Also is slow to become warm in spring, NOT GOOD. Don’t plant  cocos in this soil, plant in SAND. Its probably for this, theres cocos in the Newport Beach and San Clemente up in southern california. Their probably in sand.

2. RAIN – Most the rain in this area is in the winter. NOT GOOD. Cocos need rain in summer not winter. Winter needs to be dry. You plant the cocos in the clay, add the

rain in winter and more cool weather and with the always wet cool soil then rot the roots of the cocos. This happen to me with the very first coco I plant, and with my friends 2 cocos.

3. WINTER, SPRING TEMPERATURE – The cocos dont grow fast in the winter and spring but wont die if the soils dry. This is true for by the ocean, and to in the       valleys. I think little away from the oceans probaly better for the cocos, for theres more heat in the day in winter and much more in the summer but not to far so the nights in winter are not to cold. Probaly good have some influence of ocean.

4. SANTA ANA WINDS – Very bad for the cocos. Water, water water. The winds wont kill the cocos but the dry yes. When I transplant my 3 big cocos in 2003, they

die because they have little time in the ground and the roots cant get the water, they die from the dry not for the wind.

5. HUMIDITY – This part in the worlds very dry, from San Diego to south is desert on ocean. Cant do much about this but water much in the summer. In the winters theres more humidity, but dont water ! 1 time each months good, not more !

OK, in  may 2005 I try again the cocos, now I learned these things. I put the coco in 5 galon pot, with sand. And I leave it in outside for 2 years, in different place on top of canyon by factory 15 kilometers/9 miles from ocean with only protection from rain in winter, no cold protection, in sun all day winter, summer. I do this for the cocos to become use in the climate and get little bigger – 1 meter – before I plant in ground.

Heres two fotos of the cocos 9 january 2007 – with protection from rain.

3 weeks ago I put the cocos in the ground – I tell to you about this in Part Two.

[Walter John]

That's a brilliant summary of events with Cocos nuciefra, well done and thanks. There's nothing better than reaffirmations of growing tips. Even professionals practise the basics over and over again.

Look forward to more reports.

[Cristóbal]

PART TWO

Before I transplant the cocos I dig 1 meter square of soil, and put in 80% sand from beach and 20% soil for plants. I learn before you dont want plant it in the clay, in this:

You want plant it in this, 80% sand/20% good soil:

Then I make low pot of blocks, paint them black, and put sand level 20 centimetros/10 inches above level of ground.  This to help keep the soil warmer in winter when the cocos still small. The wall in back, is south wall.  

When the cocos more big, I will take down top blocks, and than later the blocks on bottom when its very big. Im sure when the cocos big say 3 meters it will be more better to live with rain in winter and wont need extra heat. The coco in Newport Beach is good example, and is much more north, 185 kilometers/110 miles. Its much more cool there, winter and summer, and much more rain in winter.

Also when the cocos more big and roots growing in all the sand, I will dig the clay of around the sand and put in more sand.

Heres anothere foto of the cocos. I put the plastic poles for I will put in the winter plastic sheet to keep it dry from rain.

[Cristóbal]

Heres more fotos of the cocos –

To end, im very sure im to have success with this cocos. Im  doing every thing right – location, soil, protection from rain, wait 2 years before transplant (with no protection from cold, only from rain), help with heat in winter when young. It also has all day sun winter and summer, and 10 meter/30 feet walls on north and on west, protection from wind in winter. May be it one day can have fruit.

[Dypsisdean]

I wonder how some of the black sand we have here on the Big Island would do for you guys.

[palmazon]

(Dypsisdean @ Jun. 03 2007,01:27)

QUOTE

I wonder how some of the black sand we have here on the Big Island would do for you guys.

you don't believe in the curse?

[Urban Rainforest]

Cristobal, It's looking good man! You did your homework and I believe it's going to work. The only thing I might suggest is to surround the palm with the black seawashed stones that you can find at the same beach as your sand. These provide additional heating for those cold winter days. Keep us updated and good luck. Here is a pic of my Cali Coco with the seawashed stones.

Steve

[Urban Rainforest]

And another pic of the trunk. It's starting to shed leafbases.

[Urban Rainforest]

And heres one of the whole palm. It's about 3 meters tall. Steve

[Urban Rainforest]

And one more...

[BS Man about Palms]

Excellent thread!  Fine work Cristobal.

[osideterry]

I wish you major success with your coco. Are you planning on giving more cocos this treatment?  A lot of work I know, but could be insurance considering the obstacles. If I were on a hill instead of in a hole I would be copying your technique against my sunny south wall.

[Tyrone]

Well done Cristobal and thankyou for that. We're both at the same distance from the equator and there are a couple of coconuts around town. One I think was planted by mistake by the owner in the perfect sandy spot and has a clear trunk, but probably doesn't get the right amount of water and fertiliser in summer so looks a bit stressed most times. However it grows!!!!

Anyway I've been germinating coconuts from husked nuts from the grocery store and I have a lovely Samoan nut that is at 5 leaf stage in my hothouse which is still growing (it's now winter here). In November I will plant him in my scientifically selected area (thanks to your info). Luckily Perth soil is about 50ft of beach sand. No nutrient, but boy does it drain. Also our winter rains are getting less and less (That isn't a good thing, but the coconut should love it). The area I'll plant it faces in a northerly direction against a tall wall of the house that is rendered a cream colour. I've had a max min thermometer testing the proposed site for a few weeks and during the day the temp can hit 44C when it's only 20C in the air. Night temps sit a couple of degrees higher than ambient because of the wall. For the first winter I'll cover Cocie in clear plastic to seal in some of that high heat, and I think I'll put the rocks around the base as well.

Reading your thread got me all fired up. May your coconut have amazing success.  

best regards

Tyrone

[JakeK]

Cristobal, excellent assessment on nucifera culture in your area. Looks like you're off to a great start.

[wendisplantation]

Thanks Cristobal for the info on your cocos. I ahve a small one that I am babying, and always looking for information regarding culture out of natural zones!

[Exotic Life]

Nice job, i love to have a Cocos but i can't growing them here in the garden... they will die already in autemm i think ...

[epicure3]

(Dypsisdean @ Jun. 03 2007,04:27)

QUOTE

I wonder how some of the black sand we have here on the Big Island would do for you guys.

Now THERE'S an idea Dean. That would make a lot of sense. The black sand would absorb a ton of heat during the day. Hmmmmm......

[epicure3]

I've all but given up the idea of having a cocos here in SoCal. Even if I could keep it alive, it would never look very good. If I did give it another try, I would think about this black sand idea and the black rocks that Steve used.

[Kris]

Dear CristalBall & Steve,

it seems you both are some die-hard fans of the coconut tree.

great work and all the best to you both.

thanks for the illustrative stills,

Love,

Kris  

[Justin]

I planted two the other day with heating cables repeatedly wound around the hole i planted them in.  It was a 140 foot cable, so I must have wound the thing close to 20 times.  If you looked at a cross section, it would look like a helix.

I'll connect the plug in November, and probably shut it off in April (assuming the plants are still alive then).

[Don Little]

Where are you located Justin?

[bubba]

Cristobal, You have done some tremendous work on growing Cocos in the Baja/SoCal area. I believe your hard work will payoff and while I do not see tree lined streets with Cocos in your area , I do think that specimen planting's in microclimates will be definately possible.

[Justin]

(Don_L @ Jul. 03 2007,00:05)

QUOTE

Where are you located Justin?

Vista/San Marcos area in North San Diego county.

[Cristóbal]

In these past weeks i go to see a seller of palms in Rosarito south of Tijuana, Palmeras Vargas. The owener says to me he is to receive in two weeks a new type of cocos nucifera develloped by mexican scientests for more cool climates and this cocos is good for Tijuana. When I go with him I see 6 cocos of the new type of cocos nucifera but i dont buy these i wait for him to get more palms and buy the best. 200 pesos/$17 dollars a palm.

For this type of cocos nucifera they do a test of 3 years in Puebla city and the cocos do ok in the test.

This is infomrations on Puebla climate:

Puebla Climate

The winters there are more cold then Tijuana and the nights are cold in all the year. Pueblas in the mountains !

Any body know any thing of this new type of cocos ?

[epicure3]

Could he be talking about a parajubaea? I would be a little skeptical about any cold hardy (or cool hardy) cocos nucifera.

[Cristóbal]

Not Parajuebea. I already see the palms. Yes there cocos nucifera. The link i put for Puebla climates not good i see the temperatures in the first link are bad.  this informations more correct. Pueblas more cool then Mexico City.

Puebla Climate

you can see in all the year, pueblas climate is more cool and much more rain then Tijuana and Los Angeles.

[Brian]

Hello Cristóbal,

I enjoyed your excellent advice on how to grow cocos in the s-cal, TJ area.

I'm from SD but have lived for the last 7 years in Mexico City. The climtate up here is like southern California in winter, cool and wet. I also have a house on the coast of Michoacan where I have several coco's among other palms.

The CICY in Mexico has done extensive research on coconut breeding, mostly for LYD but also for higher yields and other traits.

Here's a link, if anyone is interested in the breeding of cocos done here in Mexico:

http://www.bioversityinternational.org/publica....ch6.htm

If a cultivator has been created that grows in the San Diego climate they will sell like hot cakes.

Saludos

[gavilan1]

Cristobal, can you ask the seller if he can ship into So. Cal. with a phytosanitary certificate?  I'd like to get my hands on one or two of these.  I'm guessing that they're based on the yellow or red Malayan dwarf cultivar, since those seem to fair the best in LYD resistance.  The Malayan dwarf seems to develop faster into juvenile and adult stages than the Pacific or Atlantic tall cultivars, and juvenile and adult coconuts stand a better chance of surviving in cold weather than young sprouts.  My comment is based more on observation and speculation than science - I have seen Malayan dwarf cocos as young as six years old with two or three feet of trunk and loaded with nuts in the Yucatan area, and I believe that the Pacific talls aren't considered mature until they're about 15 to 20 years old.  Hopefully someone can endorse or correct this thought here.  I'm pretty sure that a mature Cocos nucifera relocated to a colder than normal climate would fair better than a younger iteration.  My cocos are too young to make definitive conclusions about their viability here in So. Cal, but my gut feeling is that my yellow Malayan dwarf will lead the others in establishing itself in this climate.  My two Hawaiian (Pacific) talls are close behind it, thriving in full sun, followed by my Jamaican tall, which is a bit slower than the others.  I have younger green Malayan dwarf that doesn't give any hints as to how it will do - so far I am unimpressed, but it is doing well in a 5G squat container.  This summer is favoring my Cocos, since in their black plastic 15G containers, they're seeing 90 to 100 deg. F+ soil temps during the day, and nightime lows of 75 to 80 deg. F.  Two drenchings with water a day also has them as happy as a pig in mud.  Me dejas saber, si? O me mandas un PM.

Gracias.

[mcwolf]

Thanks to all for the motivation to try it again and again. I´ve got 3 out in pots during another wet and cool winter in the Cape. They are in full sun but still growing slowly. Unfortunately they get more and more leave spots and some of them start yellowing. Actually I´m quite surprised that they managed to survive 2 consecutive winter months. Unfortunately they have to keep up another 6-8 weeks to be able to enjoy more moderate temperatures. If not I grant my next lot rain protection since I feel that low temperatures can be compensated with sunny locations against a wall. Hope I will be able to report their survival, soon.

All the best for yours,

Wolfgang

[gavilan1]

Wolfgang, keep up the good work with your Cocos.  Mine began to yellow a bit (especially the yellow Malayan dwarf), so when I fed them with my granulated palm food, I also added a granulated product sold here in the US called "Ironite", which is an iron supplement used primarily to green lawns, but also used for trees and other plants to deepen the green color of leaves.  It took a couple of weeks to kick in, but the centers of the leaves are greening up again, even though the leaf tips remain yellow on the dwarf.  My talls greened right up.  I get minimal spotting even though they're in full sun sunup to sundown.   Since you're way south and in winter, make sure that your pots drain well, and try to protect the roots from cold, wet soil and root rot.  A fungicide drench might help one or twice during these cold months.  Keeping the roots from rotting is most important when your sprouts are young and the weather is cold.

[Cristóbal]

these are the two cocos for the more cool climate  developped by mexican scientists i buy yesterday. these come from mountains in veracruz state growned in full sun there. 200 pesos - 17 us dollars. the palm seller palmeras vargas is to recieve 100-150 more in 2-3 weeks and is to see for my american friends about the certificate fitosanitarey to export. one is 1.40 meters / 4 feet 6 inchs tall and the other is 1.30 meters / 4 feet 4 inchs tall. the cat el wiwi is in the fotos for seeing the size.

i do with these what i do before with my cocos - plant in sand in large pots and leave in the outside no protection to be come acostom to the climate.

in the next year, i put them in the ground.

[Brian]

me parece que wiwi le gusta salir en foto....asi son los gatos

[gavilan1]

Cristobal, did Vargas have any idea how old these two sprouts are?  How many leafs old are they?  The petioles don't have any yellow or gold color at all.  Perhaps these are hybrids with some green Malayan or Fiji dwarf genetics in them.  It's not likely that they would have used talls, though, since most talls are susceptible to lethal yellow disease, and Jamaican and the Yucatan have been devastated by LYD (and Wilma).  I'm sure that they would have wanted a LYD resistant, cold friendly "fruit" for all their efforts.  Let me know if Vargas can get the certificate.

[Jon T]

I think Cristobal CAN do it with the heating tricks and keeping the roots dry when it's cool, and with lots of water when it's warm.

Cristobal's high temps are a lot like Bermuda's, at the same latitude, where they casually grow plenty of cocos -- except the lows at his TJ place are about 10 degrees F. cooler.  Surprisingly, the rainfall in Bermuda is 4-5 inches a month, EVEN IN WINTER.  So it's not EXACTLY the rainfall total in winter that's a problem, it's the cool lows PLUS the rainfall, PLUS  the cool highs during an extended rainy period, PLUS the clayey soils -- there are common fungi and bacteria that rot tropicals when the soil temp drops below 60F. too long or too often.

There are occasional long-term coconuts on the inland coast of Baja below San Felipe and on the Sonora coast just south of the AZ border where the lows are similar with less winter rain, less overcast, and more winter daytime heating.  And of course they need tons of summer water.

No reason Cris can't succeed with his winning combination of brains, obsevation, preparation, and care.

Jon T.

[AS in SA]

Below is a photo of two coconuts that I purchased in January/February.  I potted these up and put them outside in early March.  Second photo shows them now.  They're both potted in pure sand with river rock on top.  The larger of the two (which I believe is a tall variety) has been growing quite well.

[AS in SA]

2nd photo..

[gavilan1]

Allen, what exposure are they located in now?  Is that an east exposure?  They're looking very nice today.  One of my Hawaiian talls and one yellow Malayan dwarf liked the heat in the 15G container so much that they started sending roots out of the drainage holes in the black plastic container.  I ended up moving them into larger units (24" boxes).  

The only downside is that in the 15G containers, the roots saw 100 deg. F in the sun, and in the 24" Amaroo boxes they're only seeing 80 deg. F - it is only 100 deg. F a few inches into the box from the container.  How much/how often do you water your coconuts?

[AS in SA]

I water about twice a week.  They're against our north fence, so get southern exposure.  Your coconuts look great - I like the boxes.

[Cristóbal]

im very happy see theres more people experimenting with the cocos. to try diferent types of the palm is only good - i like very much what gavilan is doing he has various. i think if he plant them in sand when there little more big hes going to be ok.

gavilan are you going to leave them in the outside in the winter ?

[gavilan1]

Cristobal,

Yes, this winter the Cocos in the 24" boxes and the 15G containers will remain outdoors.  I doubt that this winter will be as severe as the last one.  As long as these coconuts don't see temps. below 50 deg. F at their roots, they should be fine.