North Florida Queen Palms, zone 9a expanding

[Gator]

I grew up inland South Georgia....zone 8b.....and when I go back to visit my family...i am shocked at all the queen palms.

It looks very much like the Lake City Fla pictures.

I agree these palms may be on borrowed time.  But seeing multiple mature queen palms in Georgia definitely confirms

that winters are more mild.

[Jcalvin]

5 hours ago, Gator said:

I grew up inland South Georgia....zone 8b.....and when I go back to visit my family...i am shocked at all the queen palms.

It looks very much like the Lake City Fla pictures.

I agree these palms may be on borrowed time.  But seeing multiple mature queen palms in Georgia definitely confirms

that winters are more mild.

I agree. I live in SE Georgia as well. Queens everywhere. The 2018 freak storm came through and killed a few of them, but most of the ones in Brunswick, Saint Simons Island,  Jekyll Island

and even further inland are still there. The coast around Georgia is comparable to Jacksonville. 

 

Here are a few in Waycross that have been there for awhile now. The one on the right didn't survive 2018, but the one on the right is still kicking. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Jcalvin

[The7thLegend]

@JcalvinI've seen Queens In Jekyll and Saint Simmons but wow that's an impressive one in Waycross!

[Teegurr]

On 6/9/2021 at 8:56 PM, The7thLegend said:

 

Of course there's weather anomalies that come once every so many decades or whatever but if palms were planted based on extreme lows there wouldn't be Sabal Palmettos in Lake City (7), W. Robustas in Orlando (18) or Royals in Miami since a low of 30 is zone 9b.  Who's really safe?  

 

But all three of those palms can pretty easily survive those lows.

Is your point that those lows happen on extremely rare occasions so palms that cannot usually survive those temps do because they don't happen every year?

If a robusta was exposed to 18f every year, but no lower, it could survive pretty easily.

A royal wouldn't blink at an annual low of 30.

Sabal palmetto would be the only one that would be a stretch.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Teegurr

[Gator]

My uncle in Douglas has 3 mature queens like that one in the picture in Waycross.

All 3 made it through the 2018 freeze

[The7thLegend]

15 hours ago, Teegurr said:

But all three of those palms can pretty easily survive those lows.

Is your point that those lows happen on extremely rare occasions so palms that cannot usually survive those temps do because they don't happen every year?

If a robusta was exposed to 18f every year, but no lower, it could survive pretty easily.

A royal wouldn't blink at an annual low of 30.

Sabal palmetto would be the only one that would be a stretch.

 

All 3 of those palms/respective cities would be considered Zone pushing ( UF/IFAS ) if you selected palms based on extreme lows because you were worried about the next weather apocalypse.  Yet it's absurd because all 3 of those palms thrive in each of those cities.  Yes eventually a bad weather event will come, nobody is safe and the lows prove it.  In the meantime zones are zones for a reason and a great tool when selecting plants/palms so we'll have Queens in Lake City, Coconut palms in Orlando, Hurricane Palms in Miami, etc.

 

 

[NBTX11]

1985 - Southern Georgia 0F. Lake City Fl 6F

By the way Texas was much warmer (relative to this), with Houston “only” dropping to 20, and San Antonio 19. The coldest air can move east of Texas in freezes. It doesn’t always pour into Texas first.

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by NBTX11

[JLM]

4 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

1985 - Southern Georgia 0F. Lake City Fl 6F

By the way Texas was much warmer (relative to this), with Houston “only” dropping to 20, and San Antonio 19. The coldest air can move east of Texas in freezes. It doesn’t always pour into Texas first.

 

Will probably be a very long time before we have another extreme freeze like that. Wouldnt be surprised if we dont see a few dips into the teens in northern FL though over the next 10 years. With this La Nina/Cool Neutral ENSO phase we are in right now we are bound to go into an El Nino within the next 5-10 years if not sooner, much sooner. This winter is currently looking like a cool neutral/La Nina winter again though.

[The7thLegend]

8 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

1985 - Southern Georgia 0F. Lake City Fl 6F

By the way Texas was much warmer (relative to this), with Houston “only” dropping to 20, and San Antonio 19. The coldest air can move east of Texas in freezes. It doesn’t always pour into Texas first.

 

 

 

That's Live Oak FL at 6 degrees, not Lake City.

 

[Jcalvin]

22 hours ago, Gator said:

My uncle in Douglas has 3 mature queens like that one in the picture in Waycross.

All 3 made it through the 2018 freeze

Here’s another one in Waycross I forgot about. Just happened upon it because my daughter has a soccer tournament here. 

Douglas is a little further inland. I go through quite a bit. 

It’s been here since 2008.It is on the south side of this building near a blacktop surface.  They added the Filibusta’s about 5 years ago. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by Jcalvin

[Jcalvin]

4 hours ago, The7thLegend said:

 

That's Live Oak FL at 6 degrees, not Lake City.

 

Lake City is a little warmer than Live Oak. There’s a ice 9a microclimate on the  west side of the city. 

[NBTX11]

Haha, I am not trying to discourage y'all from planting queen palms.  Go for it.  I was just offering a dose of realism.  It's gotten cold there before.  Could happen again.  May never happen again in your lifetime.  Might happen next year.  In the mean time plant away.  As someone who also is in a borderline 8b/9a climate (where I am is on the same latitude as Gainesville), I have seen tons of queen palms come and go.  People are already replanting them from the Feb freeze.  They might be alive for the next 20 years, who knows.  Go for it.  They are so attractive, they are worth the risk.  I am not going to do it, because I don't take a lot of planting chances, but a lot of people do, and are successful.

Edited June 12, 2021 by NBTX11

[Jcalvin]

4 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Haha, I am not trying to discourage y'all from planting queen palms.  Go for it.  I was just offering a dose of realism.  It's gotten cold there before.  Could happen again.  May never happen again in your lifetime.  Might happen next year.  In the mean time plant away.  As someone who also is in a borderline 8b/9a climate (where I am is on the same latitude as Gainesville), I have seen tons of queen palms come and go.  People are already replanting them from the Feb freeze.  They might be alive for the next 20 years, who knows.  Go for it.  They are so attractive, they are worth the risk.  I am not going to do it, because I don't take a lot of planting chances, but a lot of people do, and are successful.

I agree. It might be twenty or thirty years from now, it might be this winter. It’s eventually a matter of time for the queens here. 

[Gator]

Bout 15 years ago...i planted about 10 citrus trees. Nice 9a microclimate ( South Ga)  Next to a lake. They did great for a season......

and then we had a "normal winter...with about 2 weeks with lows in the  mid 20's

EVERY STINKIN ONE of those citrus trees croaked.   

I learned.....the freeze doesnt happen every year....but it happens   

Edited June 14, 2021 by Gator

[Laaz]

You must have planted the very tender citrus trees. I have about 30 in my yard that I've had for years. I had more, but cut some down because I couldn't use all the fruit.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Laaz

[Jcalvin]

8 hours ago, Laaz said:

You must have planted the very tender citrus trees. I have about 30 in my yard that I've had for years. I had more, but cut some down because I couldn't use all the fruit.

Agree. I've lived in SE Georgia pretty much most of my life, and I haven't seen one citrus tree die back. 

[Gator]

On 6/14/2021 at 9:25 AM, Laaz said:

You must have planted the very tender citrus trees. I have about 30 in my yard that I've had for years. I had more, but cut some down because I couldn't use all the fruit.

key lime seedlings.

 

They were about 2 foot tall.  I also planted them in the fall ( they were on sale ) 

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, Gator said:

key lime seedlings.

 

They were about 2 foot tall.  I also planted them in the fall ( they were on sale ) 

Key lime is the most tender of all commonly cultivated citrus 

[Gator]

4 hours ago, Xenon said:

Key lime is the most tender of all commonly cultivated citrus 

i thought i was being so smart..... they were on fall clearance for $15 at Lowes

so I bought all 10 and planted them in a row. 

 

[Laaz]

Nope, if you want a substitute for key lime, get Eustis limequat.. Super hardy & taste almost the same.

[Rain52]

Palms / tropicals around Jax beach pics taken 2022 thru present. Average min last 30 years 28 degrees . 

 

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, Rain52 said:

Palms / tropicals around Jax beach pics taken 2022 thru present. Average min last 30 years 28 degrees . 

 

One cold winter and all those palms with a crownshaft will be gone.  It got cold before it will happen again but Queen palms should be pretty reliable over there in Duval County.  

[SeanK]

13 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

One cold winter and all those palms with a crownshaft will be gone.  It got cold before it will happen again but Queen palms should be pretty reliable over there in Duval County.  

Say goodbye to the Monstera if it gets cold.

[Robbertico18]

2 hours ago, SeanK said:

Say goodbye to the Monstera if it gets cold.

At least monstera will come back from the roots if it gets too cold

[NBTX11]

6 hours ago, MarcusH said:

One cold winter and all those palms with a crownshaft will be gone.  It got cold before it will happen again but Queen palms should be pretty reliable over there in Duval County.  

Even the queen palms will be wiped out if it gets as cold as the 1985 freeze. 9 degrees in Jacksonville, and below zero in interior South Georgia. All of north Florida dropped to single digits. 
 

By comparison, Houston “only” dropped to 20 and San Antonio 19 in that freeze. Texas does not always get the brunt of freezes. Sometimes they dive straight into North Florida. 

[SeanK]

5 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Even the queen palms will be wiped out if it gets as cold as the 1985 freeze. 9 degrees in Jacksonville, and below zero in interior South Georgia. All of north Florida dropped to single digits. 
 

By comparison, Houston “only” dropped to 20 and San Antonio 19 in that freeze. Texas does not always get the brunt of freezes. Sometimes they dive straight into North Florida. 

I believe that 0°F was near Cordele or Tifton. 60 to 100 miles from the Florida state line. I don't know how far east the 1985 cold ran.

[Xenon]

15 hours ago, Rain52 said:

Palms / tropicals around Jax beach pics taken 2022 thru present. Average min last 30 years 28 degrees . 

Awesome pics, thanks for posting. Reminds me of Galveston here in TX. Not sure why people feel the need to make a bunch of comments about how x and y are going to die lol. I think we all know things are on borrowed time (us included), that's the beauty of it all. Love seeing zonepushing success for however long, hopefully many more warm winters! 

From what I remember, the plants I saw a few years ago along the St John's near Mandarin were even more impressive than the beaches. 

[MarcusH]

11 hours ago, Xenon said:

Awesome pics, thanks for posting. Reminds me of Galveston here in TX. Not sure why people feel the need to make a bunch of comments about how x and y are going to die lol. I think we all know things are on borrowed time (us included), that's the beauty of it all. Love seeing zonepushing success for however long, hopefully many more warm winters! 

From what I remember, the plants I saw a few years ago along the St John's near Mandarin were even more impressive than the beaches. 

The good thing about America is "Freedom of speech " ,Jonathan.  You don't have to always like what we say or vice versa.  You like to be on the risky side that's fine but  there's the other side of palm growers that want to grow old with their palms and don't want to deal with palm removals or whatever comes with it every now and then.  Makes sense ? 

[Xenon]

5 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

The good thing about America is "Freedom of speech " ,Jonathan.  You don't have to always like what we say or vice versa.  You like to be on the risky side that's fine but  there's the other side of palm growers that want to grow old with their palms and don't want to deal with palm removals or whatever comes with it every now and then.  Makes sense ? 

Of course nobody is stopping you Marcus but let's dial it down.  To put it mildly, the comments seem uncalled/discouraging especially for someone who posts very rarely (that was the poster's 5th post on this site) and took the time to upload all of those pretty pictures for our free viewing pleasure. Nobody asked if or insinuated that all of those palms were bulletproof or would need costly removal or whatever, I don't see the need to try to bait an argument like what you are seemingly trying to do with me now. Just chill out and enjoy the pics lol, maybe drop a like 🤷‍♂️

[NBTX11]

16 hours ago, SeanK said:

I believe that 0°F was near Cordele or Tifton. 60 to 100 miles from the Florida state line. I don't know how far east the 1985 cold ran.

If it happened again it would be absolute palm slaughter for SE Georgia and N FL, similar to the effect 2021 had on Texas. There were also big queen palms before 2021 up and down I35 from San Antonio ranging as far north and inland as Austin TX. All gone. 

[SeanK]

7 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

If it happened again it would be absolute palm slaughter for SE Georgia and N FL, similar to the effect 2021 had on Texas. There were also big queen palms before 2021 up and down I35 from San Antonio ranging as far north and inland as Austin TX. All gone. 

So, I wonder about those CIDP at Valdosta State. Were they planted post-1985 or did they recover full defoliation along with S.palmetto?

[NBTX11]

6 hours ago, SeanK said:

So, I wonder about those CIDP at Valdosta State. Were they planted post-1985 or did they recover full defoliation along with S.palmetto?

They were probably there before the freeze. CIDP are super hardy and have been known to take down to 0F, maybe less. 

[njpalmguy]

On 6/9/2021 at 11:10 AM, NBTX11 said:

Lake City isn’t by any body of water. It’s mid peninsula in extreme northern Florida. It’s also not by any heat islands or metro areas. That area is extremely vulnerable to severe cold by Florida standards. It’s not a question of if, it’s when. Yes the zones may be creeping north a little, but that matters nothing in an extreme arctic outbreak. Ask me how I know. 
 

San Antonio TX used to have large queen palms everywhere. Today there are zero, unless they were planted since Feb. Everything less hardy than Robusta was slaughtered. Even some of the Robusta were killed. By the way, the 1985 and 2018 freezes went east of South Cental Texas towards the SE US. It can happen. We got nothing out of the 2018 freeze that hit Houston and New Orleans. 

texas has been hit by some pretty bad freezes lately. if those queens somehow pulled out of 2018, they would’ve surely died during that freeze in February 2021, especially with the snow that would probably finish the job.

[Rain52]

On 6/12/2024 at 1:40 AM, NBTX11 said:

Even the queen palms will be wiped out if it gets as cold as the 1985 freeze. 9 degrees in Jacksonville, and below zero in interior South Georgia. All of north Florida dropped to single digits. 
 

By comparison, Houston “only” dropped to 20 and San Antonio 19 in that freeze. Texas does not always get the brunt of freezes. Sometimes they dive straight into North Florida. 

It was not 9 at the beaches , we r warmer than the Jax official report. Jax beach was 14 in 85  even though I had 17. And 17 in 89. That is the last time it has dropped Below 20 at the beaches. Beaches r surrounded by rivers and marsh which does protect us. 

[MarcusH]

On 12/25/2024 at 4:47 PM, Rain52 said:

It was not 9 at the beaches , we r warmer than the Jax official report. Jax beach was 14 in 85  even though I had 17. And 17 in 89. That is the last time it has dropped Below 20 at the beaches. Beaches r surrounded by rivers and marsh which does protect us. 

So how cold did it get in Jacksonville?