Bismarck palm cold hardiness

[ShadowNight030]

I live in zone 9a in central Louisiana. I’ve had success with majesty palms and queens, until this year when I didn’t cover them up and we hit the teens. But that was a 30 year freeze. I do not protect palms, but I can plant it on the south side of my house under a few tree canopies that gets good filtered sun through the day. Will this be a waste of money if I purchase one, or can this work? 

[Neil C]

I don't think your temps will be a problem but these palms really like full blazing sun so not sure about the shade growing?

Regards Neil

[kinzyjr]

2 hours ago, ShadowNight030 said:

I live in zone 9a in central Louisiana. I’ve had success with majesty palms and queens, until this year when I didn’t cover them up and we hit the teens. But that was a 30 year freeze. I do not protect palms, but I can plant it on the south side of my house under a few tree canopies that gets good filtered sun through the day. Will this be a waste of money if I purchase one, or can this work? 

While the silver forms are a little more hardy than the green form, I would hesitate to recommend bismarckia in your area unless you are OK with replacing them.  If you have a good run of acceptable temperatures, these palms get massive quick.  If you try it, good luck.

[Stevetoad]

Mine have seen 26f and a week of freezing nights. Never phased them. They do like the full sun and heat though. With those two factors they grow fast. 

[mnorell]

Jay, are you in Central Louisiana or in New Orleans? Your sig says New Orleans so I'm confused. If central I assume you mean around Alexandria. I have a place in Natchez, Mississippi, just east of Alexandria. I have done the Bismarckia experiment and here's how it went: Silver form (bought at HD Baton Rouge)...planted it in 2005/6 and it lived for four years until the 2010 freeze killed it outright. But before that, I learned that somewwhere around 23F was the point of getting some leaf damage (very similar to Washingtonia), which is about the average low we would see every year. But 2010 was 18F and three solid days below freezing and that did it in. But because suspected the palm would not last long-term, I planted a Sabal causiarum behind the Bismarckia. While that was growing up, the Bismarckia was there to grab attention. Once the Bismarckia was dead, the Sabal could stand in the limelight. It was a good strategy as the S. causiarum can take intense cold. I have two in Natchez, one burned a good number of leaves this last horrific winter (13F) the other was more protected by a clump of bamboo and only had a tiny bit of damage. But they are very, very impressive palms, similar in size and robustness to the Bismarckia.

[Jim in Los Altos]

6 hours ago, Neil C said:

I don't think your temps will be a problem but these palms really like full blazing sun so not sure about the shade growing?

Regards Neil

Mine's getting huge and it's in almost full shade except for a couple of hours of morning sun. Leaves are silvery blue too. 

[Austinpalm]

I have had a silver Bismarckia here in Austin, Tx for the last 10 years.  Mine is planted in some shade for winter protection but does still get a fair amount of sun.  If you want to have a specimen palm, then I suggest you follow mnorrel's advice and go with something else.  While my Bismarckia has survived, it is more reminiscent of a Sabal minor.  I have had to cut it back to the ground on 3 separate occasions, but it continues to live.  I have seen larger versions of these planted around Austin that died completely during cold events which my plant survived.  I have provided only minor cold protection, so perhaps that was the difference that allowed it to survive.  Hope this helps. 

[Xenon]

There are a few growing near me (western suburb of Houston) that have survived high teens on multiple occasions. They are all in full sun, completely exposed. It has been years since they've had a full crown, high teens causes complete defoliation. I'm surprised they haven't died when many queen palms in the same area died from these freezes.They look almost half decent by fall. Bismarckia in inner city areas had about 30-50% burn after last winter, low was 20 or 21F. Bismarckia do much better here as the heat island is usually the upper end of 9b. 

[ShadowNight030]

13 hours ago, mnorell said:

Jay, are you in Central Louisiana or in New Orleans? Your sig says New Orleans so I'm confused. If central I assume you mean around Alexandria. I have a place in Natchez, Mississippi, just east of Alexandria. I have done the Bismarckia experiment and here's how it went: Silver form (bought at HD Baton Rouge)...planted it in 2005/6 and it lived for four years until the 2010 freeze killed it outright. But before that, I learned that somewwhere around 23F was the point of getting some leaf damage (very similar to Washingtonia), which is about the average low we would see every year. But 2010 was 18F and three solid days below freezing and that did it in. But because suspected the palm would not last long-term, I planted a Sabal causiarum behind the Bismarckia. While that was growing up, the Bismarckia was there to grab attention. Once the Bismarckia was dead, the Sabal could stand in the limelight. It was a good strategy as the S. causiarum can take intense cold. I have two in Natchez, one burned a good number of leaves this last horrific winter (13F) the other was more protected by a clump of bamboo and only had a tiny bit of damage. But they are very, very impressive palms, similar in size and robustness to the Bismarckia.

Sorry for the confusion, I made my account in my short time living in the New Orleans area. I live 30 minutes south of Alexandria. Bismarcks are by far my favorite palms. I went to Orlando this summer and was blown away by how big some were. I know mine would most likely never achieve such beauty and height, but it would still be a centerpiece in my garden. In my area we rarely hit the teens, and when we do it’s 19 or 18 for only a few hours. I’m still newish to most palm species, and I’m only knowledgeable about the normal things in my area like dates and washingtonia. 

[mnorell]

Well I wish you the best of luck...but I can tell with a high degree of confidence that if the weather coöperates, you will enjoy it for a few years and then you'll have a dead palm. You have to remember that the Gulf South occasionally receives multi-day freezes (three days or so in 2010) and it is just too much for a palm like a Bismarckia, even though it may be able to survive a very brief hit to 20F in a place like Orlando). If you want to keep replacing it every few years, of course that's just like replacing a dead Caladium (albeit a very expensive one!), and of course such strategies are used by many who have the resources. But the fact is that you do get lethal cold with some regularity (certainly in the context of growing a large, single-stemmed palm like Bismarckia nobilis), and I hate to contradict but you have had teens and lengthy freezes in your area at least three winters in the last decade. I doubt that a Bismarckia would have survived in the French Quarter after this winter (19F in that very, very warm microclimate), let alone in Central Louisiana. I'm sure you had something like 13-15F south of Alexandria. People south of you were getting 16-17F in their yards.

So if you want a centerpiece for your landscape (which usually indicates long-term), you might just want to think about putting a similar but hardy backup nearby. As I mentioned, it was Sabal causiarum that filled that bill for me and it's a spectacular palm once it gets some size on it. If you're not familiar with it, google pictures of it in Puerto Rico, it is very impressive. Even if you think you will replace the Bismarckia, planting a large (slow-growing) Sabal NOW is good insurance for a later point in time when the inevitable fatigue sets in and you just don't want to mess with a big out-of-zone palm. (Ask anyone on this forum, it will happen!) Sorry to put a needle in your tire but using hardy palms as your foundation and the out-of-zoners as your experiments and fun-stuff (knowing they are temporary) is the best way to avoid some profound disappointment. You still have a rich palette of palms from which to choose. Remember...there's nothing between you and the North Pole but barbed wire.

[ShadowNight030]

2 hours ago, mnorell said:

Well I wish you the best of luck...but I can tell with a high degree of confidence that if the weather coöperates, you will enjoy it for a few years and then you'll have a dead palm. You have to remember that the Gulf South occasionally receives multi-day freezes (three days or so in 2010) and it is just too much for a palm like a Bismarckia, even though it may be able to survive a very brief hit to 20F in a place like Orlando). If you want to keep replacing it every few years, of course that's just like replacing a dead Caladium (albeit a very expensive one!), and of course such strategies are used by many who have the resources. But the fact is that you do get lethal cold with some regularity (certainly in the context of growing a large, single-stemmed palm like Bismarckia nobilis), and I hate to contradict but you have had teens and lengthy freezes in your area at least three winters in the last decade. I doubt that a Bismarckia would have survived in the French Quarter after this winter (19F in that very, very warm microclimate), let alone in Central Louisiana. I'm sure you had something like 13-15F south of Alexandria. People south of you were getting 16-17F in their yards.

So if you want a centerpiece for your landscape (which usually indicates long-term), you might just want to think about putting a similar but hardy backup nearby. As I mentioned, it was Sabal causiarum that filled that bill for me and it's a spectacular palm once it gets some size on it. If you're not familiar with it, google pictures of it in Puerto Rico, it is very impressive. Even if you think you will replace the Bismarckia, planting a large (slow-growing) Sabal NOW is good insurance for a later point in time when the inevitable fatigue sets in and you just don't want to mess with a big out-of-zone palm. (Ask anyone on this forum, it will happen!) Sorry to put a needle in your tire but using hardy palms as your foundation and the out-of-zoners as your experiments and fun-stuff (knowing they are temporary) is the best way to avoid some profound disappointment. You still have a rich palette of palms from which to choose. Remember...there's nothing between you and the North Pole but barbed wire.

This year I actually had a cabbage palm installed. But I did look up photos of that other sabal species, and it does look beautiful. I will look into getting one. I will also try the Bismarck. But if, or when, it dies I’ll replace it with something hardier. Thank you for the help! 

[necturus]

Here in Houston large Bismarckia seem about as hardy as large queens if not hardier. I know of only one trunking specimen that looks to have died this year out of a dozen or so that I have noted. Many of these are not in particularly warm areas such as my neighborhood. I suspect the mortality rate for queens was higher. With that said, I doubt they could take 13-15 degrees. We saw around 19-20.

[Marius]

My Bismarckia looks sad after this winter.  My low temperature was -0.9 Celsius with numerous nights of frost.  I hope that it will recover and grow as fast as it is reputed to in order to be stronger for the next winter.  Not sure if I should replace it with a larger one if it doesn't make it.

before winter and after pics:

[Marius]

[LivistonaFan]

@Marius

I don't know much about South Africa and its climates, but as I looked up Bloemfontein I saw following:

• the average low for June and July was negative for this area in the period 1961-1990 with a record low of -9.7 °C (14.5 °F) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloemfontein
• the whole city is supposedly 8b? https://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-south-africa-plant-hardiness-zone-map-celsius.php
• at the official weather station (?)(1409 m/4623 ft asl) the temperature this winter dropped twice (very slightly) below -5°C (23°F) (which is according to mnorell the temperature of beginning leaf damage) and several times below 0°C (32°F)   https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/forecast/archive/bloemfontein_south-africa_1018725?fcstlength=1m&year=2018&month=7

Are you in a very good microclimate or maybe you just choosed the next biggest city for your profile (while being in a warmer area)? Anyway, you should have a very long and hot summer in front of you which is very helpful for the bizzy Keep us updated about its survival.

Edited September 17, 2018 by LivistonaFan

[Marius]

Thanks Livistona Fan. I live in the heart of Bloemfontein. Deane Avenue (see google maps). I have an amazing micro climate being situated against an East facing slope of a hill. 

I shall indeed keep you updated. I do hope that this setback was not too severe for my Bismarckia. 

[Fusca]

Hard to tell from the photo, but the spear looks good and my bet is that it will recover in spite of its size.  I believe the nice purple color on the young leaves show that it's a Bizzy more hardy to the cold and will become very silver so as it gets larger should be pretty hardy for you!

Jon

[Marius]

Hi Jon

Thanks. I remain positive. The spear looks fine. I pulled on it and it is firmly attached still. Let’s hope it responds fast to the summer heat. 

[Alicehunter2000]

There is a lot of variety when it comes to cold hardiness with these. I have a few that have survived for over 5 years in my cold 9a coastal location. My lowest temp has been 19f. and in 2014 we had 48 hour freeze event and 2 weeks later ice. Some made it ....others did not. More hardy than the typical queen from my experience.

 

[SouthFLA]

Silver Bismarckia would be marginal in zone 8b but should be ok in 9. A good alternative would be Sabal uresana, they have that silver blue appearance and similar stature. I've heard they survive into zone 8a with no problems.

[chuck H]

has anyone one had success in zone 8b with them when covering them in winter?

[D Palm]

3 minutes ago, chuck H said:

has anyone one had success in zone 8b with them when covering them in winter?

They become way to large to cover. Check out the cold hardiness master data.

[chuck H]

9 hours ago, D Palm said:

They become way to large to cover. Check out the cold hardiness master data.

I been finding information that is saying 8b for them and we never seem to get down below 25 degrees . That is why I am asking. 

 

[D Palm]

@chuck H I have 3 in ground that have experienced low 20's and a brief time at 19.  

A big difference though, is we shoot back up to 60-70 by noon.  If we did not have days that spike into mid 80's during the winter I doubt the palm would make it long term.  

This is Florida, but I posted photos of damage and more detailed report on other palms for comparison. 

 

[palmsnbananas]

For sure do it!

Here in Houston every single one of my palms died including pindo and armata in the last freeze. The only survivor was CIDP. Bismarcks have been as hardy as any palm except the CIDPs for me (and likely for you).

Bizzy eventually had 5-7 feet of clear trunk before it died in 2020. Would get defoliated some years but would come back. It’s the best palm you can grow in the gulf coast in my opinion