Planting palm trees in rocky ground (Weston)

[GMann]

My new house is in Weston. Ive just discovered that it is really hard to dig into the soil. Theres about 5 inches of topsoil and beneath that its very rocky. My plan was to plant some 25 gallon palms that will eventually grow to be big. But now I see that I cannot even dig holes that big very easily. I could easily hire someone to dig the holes for me. But in these conditions will the palms be root bound and unable to grow big because the roots will be constrained by the rock?

When I look around the neighborhood I see that there are plenty of big palms and trees so maybe its not such a big deal and the roots will just find a way? 

Anyone have any experience with planting in Weston?

[mgmccabe]

Similar issue in Coral Gables down south. I’ve had to break the stone beneath with a rod. Takes quite a bit of force but once I break it up, the plants go in and they do just fine. 

[PalmatierMeg]

I don't have solid rock exactly but underneath our calcareous sandy soil is a layer of packed shell rock that is impervious to shovels. My husband has to use a 1" diameter, pointed steel stakes like those used at construction sites, then pound it with a mallet to break through that shell rock layer to pure sand underneath before we can plant a palm or tree. Then he has to scrape that nasty shell rock debris out of the hole and repeat with stake and mallet. That means a hole 18" to 24" deep so roots can penetrate the sand. Lot of work. Can you rent a jackhammer?

[kurt decker]

You're not going to do it by hand in Weston. It's not soft limestone like in Dade. It's caprock. Dynamite works.  Your best options are probably a backhoe with a rock bit, or you might find somebody with the truck rig big enough to bore through it. It's usually only a foot or two deep, with sand underneath it . Most plantings in Weston are in soil mounded up on top of the rock. Very few people bother to pierce it. I don't know of anything harder.

[GMann]

Wouldn’t one of those augers you can buy at Home Depot work?

But really my main concern is not with the initial digging, but more about what happens to the roots after planting. Will they be able to get through the rock? Or will they be root bound?

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

I was once told by a small business operator of a Bobcat and small D350 dozer that the caprock in Weston made all the other rock in South Florida look like sugar sand.

Jack hammer if you are serious and a bobcat with a chipping drill mounted on ot if you are REALLY serious.

Otherwise buy a LOT of topsoil or 50/50 from a soil company and mound it up.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

52 minutes ago, GMann said:

Wouldn’t one of those augers you can buy at Home Depot work?

But really my main concern is not with the initial digging, but more about what happens to the roots after planting. Will they be able to get through the rock? Or will they be root bound?

Did you ever see one of those "Fail" videos on youtube where they use an auger?  The auger stays still and the operator spins.  That is what you would look like using one in Weston.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc27IvBioi8

[GMann]

38 minutes ago, Jerry@TreeZoo said:

Otherwise buy a LOT of topsoil or 50/50 from a soil company and mound it up.

My last attempts at mounding up, in my last house, were complete failures. Within weeks the soil would just wash / erode away, even when I surrounded the mounds with bricks.

 

[PalmatierMeg]

Hmmmmm, so glad I didn't move to Weston.

[paquicuba]

I'm in Weston. Yes, you'll find lots of rocks, which I'm using to create a path around my house, so if you have some big rocks that you don't want, I'll pick them up from your place . I normally dig a large hole with a heavy duty digging bar (don't even think about getting one from a big box store, it won't last you a hole,) remove all the large rocks and mix the rest of the sand with soil for cactus and palm trees from the big box stores. All my palm trees survived hurricane Irma last year and most of them are looking healthy —specially the coconuts. I also have lots of fruit trees that are doing extremely well. So, yes, plants' roots do find their way among the rocks.

[GMann]

17 hours ago, paquicuba said:

 So, yes, plants' roots do find their way among the rocks.

Thank you neighbor! Those were the words I wanted to hear. Where in Weston do you live?

[paquicuba]

5 minutes ago, GMann said:

Thank you neighbor! Those were the words I wanted to hear. Where in Weston do you live?

Hi neighbor! I live in Sunset Springs. Where are you located? 

[GMann]

Orchid Island

[paquicuba]

That's across the street  Well, if I cut thru Palm Island.  

[GMann]

Cool! I am still learning my way around.

[Tingtongthai]

Ill show ya rocks  not any old  pebbles, the roots  will go round them no problem, my trees grow just fine thru this

Edited October 1, 2018 by Tingtongthai

[Tingtongthai]

[jimmyt]

Rockbar if you are able-bodied + sledgehammer.

Cheap Demolition hammer if you are smart or (rent). 

That is how I did dig holes in my hard  limestone substrata. Rocks upon rocks.

Good luck!  jimmyt

[rprimbs]

My vote is for the demo hammer -- "jackhammer".  That is what I use.  I plant the palms the the granite hillside.  Most of it is decomposed a bit, and I use a spade bit there, but sometimes I need to use a 'point' to go through the hardest.

[DoomsDave]

Hmm. For what it's worth, when I was in Florida, I saw Roystoneas growing on top of, or in the rock in that park in Collier County near Marco Island. Seems like they'd have to root into the rock somehow; otherwise a hurricane would knock them down.

Thanks @GMann and  @paquicuba for sharing!

[DoomsDave]

On 9/24/2018, 6:03:57, Jerry@TreeZoo said:

Did you ever see one of those "Fail" videos on youtube where they use an auger?  The auger stays still and the operator spins.  That is what you would look like using one in Weston.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc27IvBioi8

¡Aye carumba!

[GMann]

It turned out it was not nearly as bad as I first thought. It just took a little more perseverance and time to dig in the soil. But I am definitely learning more towards the 7 gallon containers rather than the 25 gallon ones that I used to plant in my old home in Hollywood.

[Jeff Searle]

On ‎9‎/‎26‎/‎2018‎ ‎10‎:‎17‎:‎16‎, GMann said:

Cool! I am still learning my way around.

You both are really close to me, I'm in Southwest Ranches.

[GMann]

Actually we met up for the first time at your sale, we spoke with you too, briefly.

[paquicuba]

@Jeff SearleIt was a pleasure meeting you. We also spoke for a little while with your lovely wife Andrea. 

[Missi]

On 10/1/2018, 12:13:15, DoomsDave said:

Hmm. For what it's worth, when I was in Florida, I saw Roystoneas growing on top of, or in the rock in that park in Collier County near Marco Island. Seems like they'd have to root into the rock somehow; otherwise a hurricane would knock them down.

When were you in Collier County?! Come back!! 

[redinkyblot]

Hey there, reviving this topic. I'm in fort lauderdale, and my front yard has a really rocky layer, maybe just from years of people adding rocks and sand. I want to bring in a ton of topsoil to regrade the yard, maybe adding about 1 ft to the height of the ground. Should I try to remove some of the rock first, or is 1 ft of topsoil and compost okay to plant palms in? I'd have to dig down to make the holes anyway, but it beats removing a whole 6 inch layer from the yard. Maybe I could just till everything a little and work the new soil in? Would really appreciate any thoughts/advice! Thank you

[96720]

My “soil” if you want to call it that is VERY rocky I have worn out picks digging trenches and holes for sprinkler systems and plants and things grow just fine I wouldn’t worry about it unless there is no drainage after dig a hole but adding topsoil isn’t going to help that just plant a palm that doesn’t mind wet soil!!

[Looking Glass]

 

10 hours ago, redinkyblot said:

Hey there, reviving this topic. I'm in fort lauderdale, and my front yard has a really rocky layer, maybe just from years of people adding rocks and sand. I want to bring in a ton of topsoil to regrade the yard, maybe adding about 1 ft to the height of the ground. Should I try to remove some of the rock first, or is 1 ft of topsoil and compost okay to plant palms in? I'd have to dig down to make the holes anyway, but it beats removing a whole 6 inch layer from the yard. Maybe I could just till everything a little and work the new soil in? Would really appreciate any thoughts/advice! Thank you

Little rocks, like goofball sized or smaller?  If it’s those, it might just be old, covered up rock mulch beds.  I have a few of those if you dig down a few inches.  Lots of granite chips.  If I look back at old pics, I can see they correspond to old decorative rock beds, long sunk and covered up again by lawn.  If you live on the east side, some of the houses and yards are 70+ years old.  A lot has changed over the years.  

You can also hit the ancient coral reef foundation and big slabs of fossilized rock base in certain areas, that will need the jackhammer.  

If you do add topsoil, watch you drainage plan and runoff.  The city made one neighbor here actually bulldoze back to grade, when they ended up just dumping their rain runoff onto another neighbor’s lot, causing problems.   Adding a good layer of rich topsoil and mulch to garden beds does help over sterile sand though.  But all that sand is also needed when it rains a foot in a few hours.  You’ll still have to manage and direct all that wet season water one way or another.  

[happypalms]

Rocks and palms go well if you can dig a hole that is find pockets of soil i can get a plant from my greenhouse and walk around my garden and see a gap and think plant it there only to get the shovel to bounce back as I try to dig there that’s why there’s a gap there rocks now I take a digging bar make large container like beds with the rocks use the natural flow of the rocks to build raised beds it’s an asset having all that rock to landscape with I have rocks as big as cars in garden I landscape around them using them to my advantage rocks in the soil or on top off the soil give great thermal protection in winter plus good drainage don’t be put of by to many rocks my garden is full of sandstone rocks a wonderful asset