Dwarf Areca catechu seedlings

[fishmanejr]

Hi all,

I have some dwarf A. catechu seedlings I up-potted last night.  I noticed out of the 16 seedlings there was some variability in height/vigor.  I know you get a mix of true dwarf, semi-dwarf, and almost regular seedlings from dwarf parents.  My question is, how early can you tell the difference?  These are just finishing their first leaves with the tip of the second leaf just becoming apparent.  They were germinated this spring/early summer.  Am I seeing the difference in dwarf traits already or just differing amounts of vigor based on which seed was first to germinate and start growing?  I potted up the three tallest (far left in picture), the three intermediate (center of picture), and the 10 smallest (far right in picture) into separate community pots to watch them and see if they continue with their current growth rate.  What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

-Evan

[John in Andalucia]

I've been debating the same question. From your photo, your seedlings appear in proportion to each other, considering the leaf size, so it's hard to tell.

These here are my only seedlings. I've just up-potted the one on the far right. These were all germinated within a day or two of each other. They have the same stem diameter at the base, but the one on the right is practically stunted by comparison. I'm hoping this one is indeed a true dwarf. The only other difference is that it's a paler green colour.

Anyone else? Kai in The Netherlands sent me these seeds. We shared a sale from Bill Austin back in April.

[fishmanejr]

My seed were also from Bill Austin's plants.

John - how much sun exposure were yours growing in?  I've had mine in full sun throughout the summer months after germination. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by fishmanejr

[realarch]

Hard to tell true dwarfs when seedlings are so young. Once it gets a couple sets of leaves, you'll have a pretty good idea of what you've got. I germinated 20 seeds and none developed into a true dwarf......a few ’ in betweeners ‘ came close though. 

True form has absolutely no petiole.

Tim

[John in Andalucia]

Mine have been grown under artificial light - around 1800-2500 lux - which is nothing compared to a sunny day. They're currently in a styrene box at a constant 80-85 F with high humidity.

The 'true' dwarf variety have practically no petiole by all accounts. It'll be years before they reveal themselves!

Sorry Tim, double posted!

Edited September 24, 2018 by John in Andalucia
repetition of previous comments

[fishmanejr]

Thanks for the info so far.  I was surprised and curious when I saw the height difference at such a young age.  At this point, I'm going to chalk up the difference to order of germination as they were all in the same community pot and growing under the same conditions consequently. 

It'll be interesting to see if my segregation into the three groups remains accurate as they age!  I expected to grow these for 4-5 years before being able to truly separate out the "true dwarfs", and I guess I'll keep with that plan.  Time will tell!  I'll be happy if I get a very close "in betweener" or semi-dwarf even if none end up being a true dwarf.

[PalmatierMeg]

I've germinated maybe 50-70 dwarf Areca seeds over the past two years. They showed a range of traits from dwarf, semi-dwarf to normal traits. And, in general, the traits they exhibited when small tended to stay with them as they grew, i.e., the tall, stretched out plants didn't stop growing and turn into dwarfs. The smaller plants required watching as they grew. The chances of obtaining an "extreme dwarf" with virtually no petioles are low.

I sold all the semi-dwarfs from last year's crop and they went fast. The semi-dwarfs are also very nice palms.

I see you are in NY State. You will have to keep your seedlings indoors all winter. Watch them very carefully for spider mites which flourish in low humidity and can kill seedlings in a matter of days. You will need to have a very good miticide to treat them every month of so. Dedicated miticides (I alternate two) can be expensive and hard to find at your local garden center (I got mine off eBay). They are also toxic so you will have to spray your plants outdoors and wear gloves & mask. I treat all my container palms starting in Nov. through Mar./Apr.

You will have to provide supplemental light, heat and humidity for your palms while they wait for next season's swelter.

[fishmanejr]

Yes, I will have to bring them in with the rest of my cycads and palms.  They'll get as much light and humidity as I can provide them.  Thanks for the recommendation on spider mites.  Taking plants outside to spray them isn't feasible though.  I fear even a few minutes exposure to 5 degrees would prove deadly or severely damaging.  The front porch they're in for the winter is closed off from the rest of the house, so that should help with spraying.

I'll keep watch on the smallest and discard the tall stretched plants with time.

[GottmitAlex]

For the spider mites I recommend a fan. 

 

[John hovancsek]

Home depot sure got a big delivery but only a few look like true dwarfs 

[fishmanejr]

Nice!

[kurt decker]

if I were buying one of those Home Depot plants, I would pick second from left.

[John hovancsek]

[fishmanejr]

For $13 I'd buy a few that look promising and see how they turn out!

[GottmitAlex]

1 minute ago, fishmanejr said:

For $13 I'd buy a few that look promising and see how they turn out!

Same here.

[Reynevan]

Ever experienced 2 sprouts from one seed? I managed to germinate just 1 seed and it seem to be a twin !

[Reynevan]

See for yourself. Here's the only seed that that survived the shipping from Thailand and subsequent growing by me
It was marked as A.Catechu Dwarf but being so cheap I am not sure it really is. It seem to be twin
I digged whole seed some time ago and can confirm that this little thing is not part of root by any means.

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, Reynevan said:

It was marked as A.Catechu Dwarf but being so cheap I am not sure it really is. It seem to be twin

Nice!  I hope it is.  Hard to tell at this stage obviously but based on the seed size comparing to Evan's photo it looks to be about the same, but John's photo seems to show a bigger seed.  I would have expected John's seeds to be smaller since his plants are further along but to me they look bigger!

Jon