Kentia in Florida

[Alicehunter2000]

Why are Kenta so hard to find in Florida? For a palm that is supposed to be bulletproof as an indoor plant...you would think every box store on the planet would have them. Would be nice to get a small 1 gallon size cheaply. Can you buy them that size cheaply out West?

[AZPalms]

53 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Why are Kenta so hard to find in Florida? For a palm that is supposed to be bulletproof as an indoor plant...you would think every box store on the planet would have them. Would be nice to get a small 1 gallon size cheaply. Can you buy them that size cheaply out West?

I agree. I’ve found them at a local nursery and it was a 7g for $175. Big plant (4 per pot) and probably 6ft fall. I’ve never seen them at the local HD or Lowes. Heck, even online. Slow growers. Would love to pick one up, but for close to $200 there are a lot of other palms I’d rather try. 

[cm05]

One would think they’d be as ubiquitous as Majesty Palms, but they seem quite rare in the eastern U.S., I’ve seen large 5+ gallons for sale in Manhattan ($150-200 range) and that’s about it.

I bought mine off of Amazon last year, I paid like $20 and received 5 of them, the largest of which was about 1 gallon in size.

[Stevetoad]

2 hours ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Why are Kenta so hard to find in Florida? For a palm that is supposed to be bulletproof as an indoor plant...you would think every box store on the planet would have them. Would be nice to get a small 1 gallon size cheaply. Can you buy them that size cheaply out West?

Small Kentias are somewhat inexpensive out here. Ive seen 2 gallon plants for around $15. I know some growers seller out here have really nice 15 gal for between 70-125$. Same with H. Belmoreana. 

[Josue Diaz]

I just got large 1 gal belmorneana for $10. Forsteriana are fairly common at the big box stores too and triple groupings go for about $40 in a 5 gallon size. A few years ago, I purchased 50 seedlings from a grower in Australia via Ebay for close to $30usd. I received more than the 50, and planted them directly in the ground. I have a handful of them starting to gain some size from that batch.  might be worth looking for these on Ebay from Australia as they seem to be fairly common and cheap there also. 

[Eric in Orlando]

I never see them in box store garden centers around here. Just at local nurseries. But lately I don't even see them there either. I guess people just buy cheap cat palms and majesty palms even though they aren't good interior specimens like Kentias.

 

 

[joe_OC]

My understanding is that there is a shortage on Kentias right now.  

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

I guess people just buy cheap cat palms and majesty palms even though they aren't good interior specimens like Kentias.

Agreed.  I couldn't pass up getting a nice 3 gal. majesty marked down to $5 after a similar cat palm purchase last year!  I needed to add some height to my container ranch.

[PalmatierMeg]

I think cheap majesties have replaced Howeas as the latest must-have indoor palm - more's the pity. Howeas are so much more elegant. That said, the only Howea I've seen here was a huge community pot of tall forsteriana at HD just before the housing bust. HD wanted $250 for them. Howeas don't much like FL summers and many people like me don't keep houseplants indoors. I have one H. forsteriana and one H. belmoreana in my backyard jungle where deep green canopy keeps them sheltered and cooler in our ferocious summers. Now cool weather is here, they will be much happier, at least until the heat ramps up in April. I've had them since 2004/05. Very slow growing.

[Tyrone]

Lord Howe Island never gets as high as 30C (86F) during the day so Florida summers are tough on them. Even in Australia they are a southern states palm and don't like the real tropics. They will be a cheaper commodity in a climate that allows many mature palms to set seed for the nursery trade. LHI has only recently got its nursery back up and running again but when I was over there they were not even bothering with belmoreana because I wanted to buy some seedlings and they only do forsteriana and only as sprouts not seed. So in the USA they will be cheaper in California for sure due to fruiting individuals. Australia would likely be the cheapest source though as there are so many big fruiting plants in southern Australia.

My plan here is to plant a heap of them. I've just planted out all of my larger stock this weekend and I need to pot up all of my com pots for the next round of Kentia plantings next year. I'm trying to replicate the LHI feel in certain areas with a Kentia or two every 60-100cm apart.

[Alicehunter2000]

So I'm not alone in noticing the lack of availability here in Florida. Just very strange someone has not filled the niche. I totally understand that its so much easier for the growers to sell majesties or cataractum but palm nurseries ...one would think....would see the benefit to selling what might be the best indoor palm....even it was just small 1 gallon size....guess everything is going to Internet ....but even having a hard time finding one there.

[Alicehunter2000]

Phil at Jungle Music in California is the only one I've found that carries them.... $35 for a band size (tall pot)

[AZPalms]

4 hours ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Phil at Jungle Music in California is the only one I've found that carries them.... $35 for a band size (tall pot)

The nursery here always has them for $175 for the plant mentioned. Big palm for the money, but it’s honestly the only place I know of. If you really want one, pm me

Edited November 29, 2018 by AZPalms

[Alicehunter2000]

Thanks...I would think somebody could make some money selling seedlings to 1gallon on the east coast

[Stevetoad]

16 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Thanks...I would think somebody could make some money selling seedlings to 1gallon on the east coast

I sent you a PM but it doesn't look like its going through

[Alicehunter2000]

Yes...I didn't receive it

[Stevetoad]

48 minutes ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Yes...I didn't receive it

I tried twice and it wont go through. Is you PM disabled? Mine works with other people. 

[Eric in Orlando]

Back in the mid/late '90s the Publix grocery stores around here started carrying small, single Kentia palms (about 1 gal. size) in clay pots in the floral department. They were expensive and didn't sell well, at least at the couple stores I went to. After a few months they marked them down to $3 and I bought a bunch of them. I planted 3 in my mom's backyard and sold or traded the rest.

About the same time Target was carry Areca catechu seedlings in the houseplants. One per pot with the big seed attached and a plastic monkey tag hanging from a leaf.. Since they didn't take care of them they marked them down to $1 and I also bout a bunch and grew up to sell.

[PalmatierMeg]

19 minutes ago, Eric in Orlando said:

Back in the mid/late '90s the Publix grocery stores around here started carrying small, single Kentia palms (about 1 gal. size) in clay pots in the floral department. They were expensive and didn't sell well, at least at the couple stores I went to. After a few months they marked them down to $3 and I bought a bunch of them. I planted 3 in my mom's backyard and sold or traded the rest.

About the same time Target was carry Areca catechu seedlings in the houseplants. One per pot with the big seed attached and a plastic monkey tag hanging from a leaf.. Since they didn't take care of them they marked them down to $1 and I also bout a bunch and grew up to sell.

Rats, stores didn't do that here. Great score for you, though. Target has since closed up all its nurseries.

Back in 2004, I bought a dozen germinated seedlings of Howea f. from CA.  I potted them up just in time for Hurricane Charley. Afterward, I was so busy working hurricane recovery for a local resort I barely had time to water them. But most survived. Eventually I planted two in my nascent back yard jungle in 2005, then a H. belmoreana I found in Homestead. One of them eventually croaked after wilt killed my queen canopy, then Hurricane Irma shook things up. My bifid leaf African oil palm is now big enough to provide canopy to both remaining Howeas.

If you want to grow a kentia, you may have to seek out seeds or small seedlings from a seller in CA. Keep them potted indoors all summer then let them go out to enjoy the cool part of dry season. They like cool weather but I believe they are not freeze hardy. Their narrow range of temp/humidity preferences makes them tricky here. 

[Josue Diaz]

They take interior CA heat as long as they're shaded. They grow 100x better on the coast though. They are right at home in the SF Bay Area. I have a dozen or more scattered around in the shade of a large magnolia tree. I grew one for 5 years or more in Chowchilla, CA in the shade of a queen palm. It was lush and droopy, and grew well all through winter until it died in the freeze of 07.

 

By interior CA heat, I mean dry, 100+F temps for months at a time, with lows in the 70s and 80s. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Josue Diaz

[LoamWolf]

It is quite strange that they are not as available in FL for such a common palm. I figured they would be quite popular in FL. 

Here is one that my father-in-law planted quite some time ago at our place in Valley Center, CA. Its gets pretty cold here, as well as very dry and hot and gets blasted with dry hot santa-ana winds every year. It is planted on the north side of our house, but gets quite a bit of sun in the summer here. Here it is right after I cleaned the trunk for the first time. 

 

[PalmatierMeg]

I checked my H.f. this afternoon. It is showing a bit of trunk. What this species needs to balance midday heat is a cool/chilly night. Unfortunately, the only cool nights it gets in much of FL occur between Nov. and Apr. Night time swelter just beats them to death. We don't see Howeas much in FL is that no nurseries grow them - and they are very slow growing. Any that find their way here come from CA. I'm sure there are more of them shipped to PA than to FL.

Years ago, I attended plant sale at the Edison-Ford Estates in Ft. Myers. The Estate actually had a 5-6' H.f. planted in shade by its huge banyon tree. I was excited to see it. By the next sale, it was gone. Never replaced either.

[Alicehunter2000]

One of its strongest points is the fact that it is a superb indoor palm. That would be what I would use it for here in cold N. Florida.

[bubba]

Howea and Kentia’s are rare jewels in SF. It is too hot here for these beautiful  palms. Spots like the Breaker’s in PB have beautiful specimens but they are beyond coddled. 

Still dreaming of that grove of Rhopies that I wandered into...

[BS Man about Palms]

Just an aside note, how do Hedyscepes do there? 

I almost take for granted how easy H.f's are to grow here.. a common sight in coastal areas is a half acre plot or more planted out to grow in ground and be harvested later. I can think of 3 or 4 I know within 10 miles of me just through normal travels.

[Eric in Orlando]

Howea will grow in Florida, they just need shade and moist soil. We have several growing well here and a couple have several feet of clear trunk. I have seen nice specimens in SoFL too. Here in central FL they tolerate some cold. All of ours had no damage after the 2009-10 winter. It helps that they need to be grown in shade as that provides frost protection. I also had 3 planted at my mom's house near downtown Orlando growing well for years until a falling tree crushed them in 2004 during Hurricane Charley.

[Alicehunter2000]

Hey Eric....a totally side question....is that Borassus that I gave you several years ago still alive? ... the seed I got from Kris in India.

[PalmatierMeg]

12 hours ago, BS Man about Palms said:

Just an aside note, how do Hedyscepes do there? 

I almost take for granted how easy H.f's are to grow here.. a common sight in coastal areas is a half acre plot or more planted out to grow in ground and be harvested later. I can think of 3 or 4 I know within 10 miles of me just through normal travels.

Hedyscepes are absolute no-gos here - far worse than Howeas. The 24-hour endless summer heat/humidity probably melts them.

[PalmatierMeg]

2 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

Howea will grow in Florida, they just need shade and moist soil. We have several growing well here and a couple have several feet of clear trunk. I have seen nice specimens in SoFL too. Here in central FL they tolerate some cold. All of ours had no damage after the 2009-10 winter. It helps that they need to be grown in shade as that provides frost protection. I also had 3 planted at my mom's house near downtown Orlando growing well for years until a falling tree crushed them in 2004 during Hurricane Charley.

Orlando at least has marginally shorter summers and cooler winters to help out. Howeas are certainly possible outdoors in SFL if given precise placement: deep shade living canopy near a moderating body of water (canal in my case), not out in the open as a display palm. But any disruption, ie., loss of canopy, hurricane, can expose them to conditions that can be lethal. I accept my H.f. and H.b. will stay easily overlooked in dense jungle conditions. A trade-off I also accept.

[hbernstein]

Howea will grow in South Florida with moisture and shade. We have a pretty older one at Pinecrest Gardens.  Rhopalostylis, absolutely not. Hedyscepe would probably be dead in less than a week.

Dare I mention the fact that coconuts can be weeds here?

[IHB1979]

I'm in Brevard County, on the barrier island, zone 10a. Had a H.f. in the ground for about 4-5 years. Some of the positives for me about this palm is that it's always a rich green color, zero white fly issues and the thick salty air we have in coastal Brevard doesn't phase it. The only drawback for me is that it's very slow. I'll get a photo later today or tomorrow. 

[Stevetoad]

16 hours ago, BS Man about Palms said:

Just an aside note, how do Hedyscepes do there? 

I almost take for granted how easy H.f's are to grow here.. a common sight in coastal areas is a half acre plot or more planted out to grow in ground and be harvested later. I can think of 3 or 4 I know within 10 miles of me just through normal travels.

Even here in Santee I have a hard time with them. I have one left in filtered light and by the end of summer it looks dead but by May it looks half way ok again. I need to rehome it. 

[Eric in Orlando]

6 hours ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

Hey Eric....a totally side question....is that Borassus that I gave you several years ago still alive? ... the seed I got from Kris in India.

 

It is still alive, just very slow so far. This is the first B. flabellifer I have grown. B. aethiopum and B. madagascariensis have also been creepers so far too.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Here in the South Bay Area (San Jose and Sunnyvale) Lowe's sometimes carries huge sun grown Howea in 15 gallon containers, either triple or single and 8' to 10' tall for $199.00 or less. If not in stock, they will happily order them. I've bought many for my clients. They are proven to grow in at least half day full sun here. 

[Sandy Loam]

On 11/28/2018, 6:14:08, Tyrone said:

Lord Howe Island never gets as high as 30C (86F) during the day so Florida summers are tough on them. Even in Australia they are a southern states palm and don't like the real tropics. They will be a cheaper commodity in a climate that allows many mature palms to set seed for the nursery trade. LHI has only recently got its nursery back up and running again but when I was over there they were not even bothering with belmoreana because I wanted to buy some seedlings and they only do forsteriana and only as sprouts not seed. So in the USA they will be cheaper in California for sure due to fruiting individuals. Australia would likely be the cheapest source though as there are so many big fruiting plants in southern Australia.

My plan here is to plant a heap of them. I've just planted out all of my larger stock this weekend and I need to pot up all of my com pots for the next round of Kentia plantings next year. I'm trying to replicate the LHI feel in certain areas with a Kentia or two every 60-100cm apart.

It seems that the closer one gets to emulating a Lord Howe Island climate, the more successful they will be at growing Howeas.  That's going to be impossible for me, but I'm glad that you can give them a suitable climate in Western Australia (presumably somewhere coastal and in the southern extremities of the state).   As this thread shows, it is rare to see these palms growing here in Florida due to the heat, sun and humidity, but I have seen huge Howeas in Southern California growing near the coast. 

 

 

[Tyrone]

Thanks Sandy. 

When I was doing tropical landscaping up in Perth about 330km (over 200 miles) north of me in a straight line, if you planted a Howea away from the coast you really needed some shade. If you planted it in too much sun, the summer just knocked them around and they burnt regardless of how much you watered them. They'd recover in winter then get slaughtered again come summer, so they never really looked great. If you were along the coast the earlier sea breezes and higher humidity made such a difference and there were some magnificent ones along the coast on the limestone sands. Then as you keep going further south along the coast the Kentias just keep getting better and better. 

Down here in Albany where it's mainly cool and most breezes are sea breezes the Kentias tend to thrive with very little care. They even do ok without irrigation down here which they wouldn't be able to handle in Perth with 40C summers.

[greysrigging]

3 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Thanks Sandy. 

When I was doing tropical landscaping up in Perth about 330km (over 200 miles) north of me in a straight line, if you planted a Howea away from the coast you really needed some shade. If you planted it in too much sun, the summer just knocked them around and they burnt regardless of how much you watered them. They'd recover in winter then get slaughtered again come summer, so they never really looked great. If you were along the coast the earlier sea breezes and higher humidity made such a difference and there were some magnificent ones along the coast on the limestone sands. Then as you keep going further south along the coast the Kentias just keep getting better and better. 

Down here in Albany where it's mainly cool and most breezes are sea breezes the Kentias tend to thrive with very little care. They even do ok without irrigation down here which they wouldn't be able to handle in Perth with 40C summers.

Its amazing how much better they are in say coastal Mandurah than in Perth, especially ( as you mention ) inland Perth. Only 50 miles south and on the coast. I wonder if salt laden oceanic breezes have any bearing on their growth ? Probably not.... To see them in huge stands in their natural habit is pretty special ( I worked on LHI in 2003 )

Edited December 4, 2018 by greysrigging
Spelling error

[Tyrone]

Yes Mandurah grows much better Howeas than say Midland or Pearce near Perth. It's a totally different climate there.

I hope to get back to LHI soon. My favourite place on earth at the moment. So many Kentias. 

[IHB1979]

Very slow growing for me. I live on the barrier island in Brevard County, zone 10a. Planted 4-5 years ago as a seedling.

[coops 3214]

On 11/29/2018, 10:14:08, Tyrone said:

Lord Howe Island never gets as high as 30C (86F) during the day so Florida summers are tough on them. Even in Australia they are a southern states palm and don't like the real tropics. They will be a cheaper commodity in a climate that allows many mature palms to set seed for the nursery trade. LHI has only recently got its nursery back up and running again but when I was over there they were not even bothering with belmoreana because I wanted to buy some seedlings and they only do forsteriana and only as sprouts not seed. So in the USA they will be cheaper in California for sure due to fruiting individuals. Australia would likely be the cheapest source though as there are so many big fruiting plants in southern Australia.

My plan here is to plant a heap of them. I've just planted out all of my larger stock this weekend and I need to pot up all of my com pots for the next round of Kentia plantings next year. I'm trying to replicate the LHI feel in certain areas with a Kentia or two every 60-100cm apart.

Is the nursery going to be selling hedyescepe as well?? Wonder why the dont sell the belmoreana?? I find they grow so much better for me than fosteriana atleast here in geelong,