Response to rat attack ?

[Darold Petty]

Lately my garden has been the source of only angst and unhappy emotions rather than pleasure.  I have suffered the loss of adult palms, including Parajubaea, Hedyscepe, and Dypsis. It seems that lately I have only setbacks, not success. In the last month all my bedding plants of Neoregelia bromeliads have been destroyed by raccoons, tearing out the heart of the plants.

  Now, roof rats (Rattus rattus) have begun to destroy palm fronds each night by chewing through the petiole, causing the entire, healthy frond to fall.  My climate is marginally cold for Howea, growing only one or two fronds per year. and the garden cannot withstand this damage.  This occurred once before, causing the death of a Howea with about 24 inches of real trunk. They are chewing Howea, Dypsis, and Chamaedorea.

  Poison is not an option for my garden, as our dog has 24/7 unlimited access to the yard.  I cannot risk secondary poisoning of my dog from consuming a rat carcass.   So far I have set out spring traps and live-catch box traps.  I have not killed a single rat, and they seem to spurn all bait in favor of Howea petioles.

  Pleas advise, if you have had this problem and/or any advice, thanks.  

[necturus]

I am not a fan of killing the little bastards, but one thing that often works is to leave a 5 gallon bucket half full of water out. They jump in and drown. I have never done this on purpose, but water often collects in my buckets and I wind up with a surprise.

[Josue Diaz]

That is really disappointing Darold, sorry to hear that.  Bait alone has never worked for me. I bait, use glue traps, and have recently added a Goodnature A24 automatic rat trap. I'm also careful to secure all potential food sources like our dog food which we store in a metal bin. I think i'm winning the battle for the time being but I feel that if I let my guard down the tide could turn rather quickly. 

[Darold Petty]

Josue, the A24 sounds great !  Have you observed rat kills in your yard with this device ?

[joe_OC]

18 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Josue, the A24 sounds great !  Have you observed rat kills in your yard with this device ?

Is it bad that I couldn't stop watching the videos?   

[joe_OC]

Darold,

So sorry to hear about your troubles.  What happened to your Hedycepe?

[Phoenikakias]

I can not explain it in scientific terms, only describe my personal experience. I had been facing serious problem with rats also. Recent production of large fruit stalks by several palms in my garden (Livistona, Brahea and Phoenix spp) had supported a dramatic increase of rat population being assisted by the fact that many large palms crowd my small garden, allowing to rodents to move from crown to crown steadily high above ground and safe from the cats.They had already learned to chew on my banana stems and on flower stalks of various palms. It was only a matter of time before they would turn also to to palm leaves. Therefore I have used a bait station and a poisonous bait of Bayer. All rat disappeared within 4 months and I had not recorded any casualty among the stray cats or an accident with my dogs. 

[Ben in Norcal]

Darold, same problem here.  Rattus rattus.  Every time I think I have them under control, they come back.  I have been using mostly spring traps to date, and can barely keep up with the influx.  I think I need to look into this A24 thing, given I have small children and pets.  Dang, pricey though!

[sandgroper]

I've heard of people putting rubber snakes in palms and strategically placing artificial owls and hawks to scare off rats, I've never tried it myself but have been told it works.

[Mike Evans]

Try the plastic spring rat traps w/ peanut butter for bait.  Don't buy the wood traps, they don't last.  Rats love the PB.  Hide it in an area the dog cannot get to it.  Posion will kill your dog and the raptors that feed on rats.   As far as racoons, the havaheart racoon trap is good for them, and bait with your daily leftovers.  I will let you figure out what to do to them after you catch the vermin.  I keep everything under control with these items.  The other ideas are either too expensive, or don't work.  Good luck to you.  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Big-Snap-E-Rat-Traps-rodent-trap-Rat-snap-traps-NIB-013B-/323573634121?hash=item4b567dd449

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Havahart-Trap-1079-Live-Animal-Trap-for-Racoons-32-x-10-x-12-One-Door/301852130449?epid=933440053&hash=item4647c9fc91:g:tEUAAOSwYmZXJSnT:rk:7:pf:0

[Josue Diaz]

Darold, I've caught a couple. I have it set up in my attic, which I've restricted most entry points into pretty well so it's the last control method for me.

[Darold Petty]

Josue;  did you purchase the a24 unit on-line??

   I'm sick with worry about my palms, and would certainly drive a great distance to obtain one immediately from a a brick and mortar vendor. 

[redant]

Rats learn quick from my experience, they seem to avoid the snap traps after seeing their buddy dead in the thing. I have bait boxes but they seldom seem to go in them anymore. What ever works for you now will not work for long. 

[Phoenikakias]

 

 

1 hour ago, redant said:

Rats learn quick from my experience, they seem to avoid the snap traps after seeing their buddy dead in the thing. I have bait boxes but they seldom seem to go in them anymore. What ever works for you now will not work for long. 

What do you mean by bait boxes? If this term includes also the tubes with free openings, which serve only for a safe placement (reg other animals) of the poisonous bait, then I do not think that  a rodent would ever die inthere.  Poison does not work that instantly. Instead it allows the rat to get away before it becomes effective (not by destroying the blood but by causing a  stroke; faster acting than former poison but not instantly killing). I can not see how a rodent has the intelligence to relate the asynchronized death of its fellow to the tube.

[Tyrone]

Darold I'm so sorry to see what you're going through. Your rats are psychopaths. I've never seen them just chew through Howea fronds before. It's like they're doing it out of spite as they can't actually eat much of it. I've only seen that sort of action from rats on seedlings when they've been poisoned with anticoagulants and they start to crave moisture, so anything soft and juicy becomes a target then.

Your problem I don't think can be solved without some sort of poison. Can your dog be housed somewhere else for a given time and once the deed has been done and any carcasses have been cleared away you can bring your pet back. Drastic I know. 

I do use anticoagulants here, principally thrown into my roof. I've never had an issue with our pets or knocking off the wild life. Any carcasses are disposed of asap. 

On the natural side of things I do see the odd falcon flying off with mice and dare I say it I think the tiger snakes (deadly poisonous) which we occasionally see here (and avoid) do there bit with the vermin.

In suburbia you are really at the mercy of your neighbours. If they breed vermin you'll get them. If they poison you'll get rats craving moisture and going on a rampage in your garden. 

Rats do learn quickly and I think somehow pass knowledge onto the next generation. At my old house at one stage we had rats with phd's I reckon. They wouldn't touch bait, they wouldn't go near a trap and get caught but they would steal the bait off the trap without setting it off. Real sneaky. I was beside myself with a mix of rage and paranoia. If I had a gun I would have been out there ready to shoot them. I'd had enough. As the sun went down you could hear them all squeaking and talking together as they stealthily walked through the undergrowth of my jungle. After experimenting and failing with some electrical devices that I will not talk about here, it dawned on me that I should just poison what was on the trap. So I mixed poisoned wheat with peanut butter and bread on the traps and knocked the super intelligent rats off. They thought that there was no danger in stealing the bait, but they wouldn't touch bait without a trap. 

I hope you can get this problem sorted. Maybe ask your neighbours if they've been baiting etc. I think you need to poison them but in a way that doesn't cause damage to other things like your pets.

[Ben in Norcal]

1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

Darold I'm so sorry to see what you're going through. Your rats are psychopaths.

I have psychopaths as well - lost several Chambeyronia fronds this year to rat activity.

[Darold Petty]

8 hours ago, joe_OC said:

Darold,

So sorry to hear about your troubles.  What happened to your Hedycepe?

Joe, the Hedyscepe contracted a bacterial or fungal rot up high on the trunk.  The entire crown of fronds, including the crownshaft,  broke off in one large piece and fell over the fence into the neighbor's yard. 

[Tom in Tucson]

Here in the desert pack rats and kangaroo rats have eaten many of my plants. I did not want to kill them, so I invested in Havahart catch and release traps. The first one captured about a dozen of the pack rats, but the kangaroo rats escaped, so I bought a smaller trap for them. I still have occasional damage, but I keep the traps baited, and they are manageable.

I release the rodents in an open desert area a little over a mile away.

Good luck!

Hi 57°, Lo 46° - showers

[UK_Palms]

I too have been having problems with rats for about 8 months now. They haven't attacked my palms so to speak, but back in the summer they chewed through numerous chilli plant stems causing them to snap. I maybe lost 6-7 chilli plants to the rodents, including 2 that were around 5ft in height. They only chew half of the stem, but it causes the plant to buckle and snap as the remaining stem can no longer support the plant's weight. I also noticed other plants that had been nawed as well. They did quite a bit of damage in my garden. Thankfully the palms weren't touched though.  

Well fast forward 5 months and the rodents have now got inside the house. I'm guessing because it is winter, they have moved indoors where it is warmer. I always hear them moving around in the walls, and every night I hear them running around in the attic as well. The sound of them running around in the attic, scratching, chewing stuff & knocking things over wakes me up every night, always around 4-6am which seems to be their peak activity time. I went up into the attic a few weeks back and saw about 5 or 6 rats dart off into corners and under boxes. I also found 3 rats treading water in the water tank! All black, roof rats. 

We initially put down poison, but they ended up taking it and dying in the walls & under floorboards which absolutely stunk the whole house out. A proper rancid, putrid smell. I will never use poison again after that. Instead I put down snap traps and as it stands right now, I have about 30 snap traps in my attic and around the house. The traps are working and I am catching 1-2 rats a day on average, but I can't gain control over the issue. They just keep on coming & I am forever changing the traps. Last week I caught 5 rats with the traps in one day! I feel like I am fighting a losing battle. I must have killed at least 60-70 rats over past 6 weeks, but I can't stem the flow. It doesn't help that there are nests in the walls. I pulled up a floorboard trying to find a dead, stinking rat carcass and found two nests, one under the floorboard and another in the nearby wall, each with about 10 babies inside. I also found two adult carcasses. 

No point calling out pest control because they will just insist on using poison to control the situation, which means more dead rat carcasses in the walls & under floorboards. And there is no way I am dealing with that dead, rotting rat smell again, coming from places I cannot access. I am literally pulling my hair out over the situation. I have totally rat proofed my house, so they aren't getting in from outside my property, but my house is attached to the neighbours house and I think they are coming from nextdoor which is how they got in my house in the first place. The problem is the neighbour is a grumpy SOAB and doesn't listen, insisting he has no rats and that it is my issue, despite the fact that he has had an exterminator/pest control guy out twice in recent weeks. His wife even told me that they have rats in their bedroom and kitchen as well. Thankfully I haven't seen them in my bedrooms or living area! My issue is that I live out in the country, near lots of farms, and my neighbours put out bird seed & bread which has attracted them.

Anyway, I feel your pain about the rat issue. I hope you can sort it. I agree with some of the other posts. Just set out as many traps as possible to try and reduce the local population in your vicinity. I'm talking go out to catch 50 a week. Snap traps, glue traps, water barrel traps, walk in traps etc. Don't bother with poison for the reasons you mentioned, and well, I am just against poison now after the smell problems it caused for me.

Good luck. 

[Tyrone]

1 hour ago, Darold Petty said:

Joe, the Hedyscepe contracted a bacterial or fungal rot up high on the trunk.  The entire crown of fronds, including the crownshaft,  broke off in one large piece and fell over the fence into the neighbor's yard. 

I'm so sorry Darold. Was that the seeding one?

[Darold Petty]

UK_Palms

So sorry to hear of your trouble, at least mine are all outdoors.  It seems that you must somehow deny access across the common construction of your two units.  What part of the building can allow access from his unit to your side ?  

[Darold Petty]

3 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

I'm so sorry Darold. Was that the seeding one?

Yes and no,  it was not my largest one, but number 2, Meanwhile #3 has begun to seed, so I still have two seeding ones, and three smaller ones.    

[Matt in OC]

I feel your pain Darold. The plastic snap traps with cat food as bait super glued to the trigger has worked best for me. Only problem is the traps don’t necessarily kill on contact unfortunately. 

[Darold Petty]

Thanks Matt !  Sometimes it seems they spurn peanut butter or cheese.  I will try the cat food as bait !

[mwardlow]

Hi Darold, I have had great success by sprinkling bird seed on peanut butter for my old style Victor rat traps. Wouldn't touch the peanut butter without it. Also salmon works good.  Got 6 in one night. I have also had success with a bucket trap recommended by a friend who has a nursery in riverside. He gets so many in his barrel he feed them to the raptors the next day. They actually wait on the poles for him to throw the dead ones out in the field. Search bucket or barrel rat trap. Or stairway to heaven rat trap.

Hope this helps

Mike

[redant]

They sell the Goodnature A24 on amazon, reviews seem very mixed, either 1 or 5 stars, people either seem to like or say it kills nothing. It's also 169 on amazon so you could save during your experiment. 

[redant]

16 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

 

 

What do you mean by bait boxes? If this term includes also the tubes with free openings, which serve only for a safe placement (reg other animals) of the poisonous bait, then I do not think that  a rodent would ever die inthere.  Poison does not work that instantly. Instead it allows the rat to get away before it becomes effective (not by destroying the blood but by causing a  stroke; faster acting than former poison but not instantly killing). I can not see how a rodent has the intelligence to relate the asynchronized death of its fellow to the tube.

I was speaking of the snap traps. The bait boxes I'm guessing they start realizing the bait is poison.  I used to have lots of activity in the bait boxes, now hardly anything even after changing baits. I see rats, I live on the water I'll always have rats.

[Ben in Norcal]

58 minutes ago, redant said:

They sell the Goodnature A24 on amazon, reviews seem very mixed, either 1 or 5 stars, people either seem to like or say it kills nothing. It's also 169 on amazon so you could save during your experiment. 

Thanks for the tip.  I am going to try the A24, along with snap traps.  Stay tuned for updates!

[UK_Palms]

14 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

UK_Palms

So sorry to hear of your trouble, at least mine are all outdoors.  It seems that you must somehow deny access across the common construction of your two units.  What part of the building can allow access from his unit to your side ?  

The rodents must be getting into the building on his side and moving through the walls and crawl spaces, thus getting into my house as well. The problem is that the guy nextdoor hates me and we are not even on talking terms. I cannot even open dialogue with him anymore. When I try to talk to him in the front or back yard, he either outright ignores me, or flips the bird at me. If I knock on his door, he checks through the eye hole first and then he won't open the door.

It all stems from the fact that I asked him a few months back to stop putting bread on his lawn for the birds, because it was attracting rodents. He took extreme offence to it for some reason, plus the fact that I mentioned his bird feeders, which I have seen rats actually eating out of. He basically told me to shut up and to F off. He continued to put out bread for the birds and kept filling up multiple bird feeders and now the rodent population has exploded here. And now they have got into our houses! 

His wife is much easier going, but she says that she is not allowed to talk to me either, otherwise he will get mad. They are both in their 60s and he is a retired veteran with PTSD (according to his wife) so I don't want to provoke him too much or keep going on at him. It is an awkward situation. I can't deny the rodents access to my property unless I pull up all the floorboards and peel back the walls to properly board up the spaces so they cannot cross from his side to mine. It would be costly and massively inconvenient & there is no guarantee that they will stop getting in. I have however got a solicitor involved in this past week to try and get this problem sorted. Hopefully a month from now I won't have this problem. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

Darold, I too have had plenty to complain about as far as the pesky rodents are concerned. Luckily they've done minimal damage to my palms, preferring the fruit from them but horribly defoliating most of my tropical hibiscus. Placing old style Victor wooden traps with a slice of apple smeared with peanut butter and the traps placed in their paths, usually butted up against a wall has netted over twenty dead rats in three weeks. It's quiet in my yard now. They'll surely return though eventually. I throw away the traps with the dead carcasses. They're really cheap from Amazon especially if you buy them in bunches of twelve.

[Tyrone]

6 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

The rodents must be getting into the building on his side and moving through the walls and crawl spaces, thus getting into my house as well. The problem is that the guy nextdoor hates me and we are not even on talking terms. I cannot even open dialogue with him anymore. When I try to talk to him in the front or back yard, he either outright ignores me, or flips the bird at me. If I knock on his door, he checks through the eye hole first and then he won't open the door.

It all stems from the fact that I asked him a few months back to stop putting bread on his lawn for the birds, because it was attracting rodents. He took extreme offence to it for some reason, plus the fact that I mentioned his bird feeders, which I have seen rats actually eating out of. He basically told me to shut up and to F off. He continued to put out bread for the birds and kept filling up multiple bird feeders and now the rodent population has exploded here. And now they have got into our houses! 

His wife is much easier going, but she says that she is not allowed to talk to me either, otherwise he will get mad. They are both in their 60s and he is a retired veteran with PTSD (according to his wife) so I don't want to provoke him too much or keep going on at him. It is an awkward situation. I can't deny the rodents access to my property unless I pull up all the floorboards and peel back the walls to properly board up the spaces so they cannot cross from his side to mine. It would be costly and massively inconvenient & there is no guarantee that they will stop getting in. I have however got a solicitor involved in this past week to try and get this problem sorted. Hopefully a month from now I won't have this problem. 

You need a python in your roof cavity. Real pain with your neighbour not being amicable. Mental illness can be real tough to deal with. I hope you get your rat problem sorted.

[Palm Tree Jim]

Darold,

Any updates?

[Darold Petty]

Thanks to all for the sympathy and advice.  I have not yet trapped any rats using peanut butter, blue cheese or salami.  Yet to try cat food or birdseed.

  No frond loss the last two nights, though.  I ordered the 'log roller device, and also the a24 trap.  I paid extra for 2 day airmail for the a24.  It should arrive on Monday, Dec. 31st.

  Does anyone have advice about the bromeliad destruction by raccoons ?

  Once again, thanks, the Palmtalk support is really appreciated.  

[redant]

You can try some ideas from here. Broms because of the center should be excellent candidates for a repellent. http://wildliferemovalusa.com/raccoon-repellent.html

[FishEyeAquaculture]

After squirrels consumed an entire crop of C. hookeri I found a .410 shotgun to be quite effective. 

The crime occurred some point last night. I watered these palms, took the boys to go see Aquaman, and came home to see that they were nothing more. 

[Darold Petty]

So sorry to see your loss,

[Tyrone]

50 minutes ago, FishEyeAquaculture said:

After squirrels consumed an entire crop of C. hookeri I found a .410 shotgun to be quite effective. 

The crime occurred some point last night. I watered these palms, took the boys to go see Aquaman, and came home to see that they were nothing more. 

Owwww. That's another depressing tale. 

[Josue Diaz]

Sorry Darold, i'm just now seeing this. I purchased mine online for 180. I hope it works for you!

[Alicehunter2000]

Wood snap traps...throw away after each kill. Bait with slightly cooked bacon hook really good. Slim Jims work pretty good too.

[jreich85]

I haven't tried it yet, but has anyone played with radio frequencies to deter rodents? I recall many years ago when some beavers were interfering with the construction of a Home Depot in my hometown. The contractors were not allowed to kill the beavers, but supposedly successfully used speakers in the area tuned to a rock station at 104.1 FM (the frequency was significant) 24-7, which caused the beavers to relocate on their own will. I habe no idea how loud they had them turned up though.

I have had similar problems with rats and squirrels lately. The traditional traps worked fairly well with peanut butter and chocolate syrup for me, but the rats did seem to learn. Home Depot has a style that I found very effective, but they are one-time use and more costly.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tomcat-Secure-Kill-Rat-Trap-0360810/205566237

As for the squirrels, they are regrettably very close to becoming acquainted with my Gamo .177 cal air rifle. Since I live in a neighborhood, it works great.