Seed starting help

[SilverDragon]

Hello all,

I recently acquired four Adonidia merrillii seeds, and five Leucothrinax morrisii seeds. I have NEVER tried to grow palms from seed before, but have always wanted to try it. I confirmed that they are viable using the "float test", and now I am attempting the "ziploc bag" technique; the Adonidia seeds are each in their own baggie, and all five Leucothrinax seeds are in the same bag. The soil they're in is a mixture of a pearlite-based mix and the Miracle-gro "Cactus Palm, and Citrus" soil (I also grow cacti and citrus). I added some water to each, and they are now under a heating pad in a tray. I am using a thermometer to monitor their temp, and they have been sitting at around 80-90 degrees since they were placed there.

Given that I have never grown palms from seed before, I am open to any suggestions or recommendations as to what I can expect or should do. I know that palms can take time to germinate, so I am hoping to see results by the end of the month, or at least before the end of winter (I am in NE Ohio, zone 6b, so it's cold outside right now). The Adonidias were planted on the 1st, and the Leucothrinax were planted on the 6th.

Again, any recommendations or tips are greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Edited January 7, 2019 by SilverDragon

[PalmatierMeg]

When I do the baggie method I use damp (not wet) orchid moss as the germination medium. That way I can better see how the seeds progress. I don't suggest using a soil-based medium in baggies. You can't easily control moisture content or see the seeds. If your soil is wet or soggy, the seeds can easily rot or develop fungus. You want a moist, not a wet, medium. I buy a block or orchid moss from the nearest garden center, soak a couple handfuls in tepid water for an hour. Then I squeeze out as much water as I can before I place some moss inro a baggie. I add seeds then place baggie in a very warm place.

Palm seed germination can take from several weeks to several months to years so you must be very patient. If I lived in Ohio I'd prefer for my seeds waited until spring so the seedlings don't germinate while the house was winter dark, cold & dry. Germination also depends on the viability and freshness of seeds.

Good luck and welcome to PalmTalk.

[SilverDragon]

1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

When I do the baggie method I use damp (not wet) orchid moss as the germination medium. That way I can better see how the seeds progress. I don't suggest using a soil-based medium in baggies. You can't easily control moisture content or see the seeds. If your soil is wet or soggy, the seeds can easily rot or develop fungus. You want a moist, not a wet, medium. I buy a block or orchid moss from the nearest garden center, soak a couple handfuls in tepid water for an hour. Then I squeeze out as much water as I can before I place some moss inro a baggie. I add seeds then place baggie in a very warm place.

Palm seed germination can take from several weeks to several months to years so you must be very patient. If I lived in Ohio I'd prefer for my seeds waited until spring so the seedlings don't germinate while the house was winter dark, cold & dry. Germination also depends on the viability and freshness of seeds.

Good luck and welcome to PalmTalk.

So should I remove them from the soil and try your method? The soil within the bag is damp, but I wouldn't say it's soggy. Also I do have grow lights and ways to keep tropicals alive in winter, such as Meyer lemon, Hibiscus, and Dipladenia. Is there anything specific I should know about the two species of palms I'm trying to grow? I know Leucothrinax can be slow to germinate, but I'm a sponge for new info.

[zoli]

I honestly do not prefer the baggie method as my first choice. Well, at least the baggie method that you described. I generally use 4 inch plastic pots with up to 10 seeds (depending on the size of the seeds of course) in them and I place those in sealed Ziploc bags. You definitely want to make sure that the soil is not drenched and soggy, but you do want enough moisture in there to keep you from having to spray them every day. Fungus and mold may still develop unfortunately, which is why I tend to open up the baggies almost daily for a few minutes. Seems to help, but obviously it's extra work.

As for the "classic" baggie method, I just don't like the way seeds seem to get lost in there. I often have to dig around to find them all and it just gets messy after a while. The pot in the bag method seems to be a nice compromise between the community pot methods of professional growers and the old baggie method. On the downside, it does require more space especially if you have lots of seeds and limited space, which is a fairly common problem for indoor temperate zone growers.

Here's my 9 month old Adonidia merrillii grown from Hawaiian seed. Germinated in about 6 weeks using the above method:

[SilverDragon]

I see you have perlite in that pot. My mix is half-perlite based soil (for cacti and succulents) and half miracle grow palm soil. I like your method of the pot-in-a-bag. Do you think I should remove them and put them in a different medium? I would hate to waste so much time. There is some moisture in the bag (probably the water I put in that has evaporated and spread out throughout the bag), but it's not soggy or wet, just humid...I figured tropical species like Adonidia and Leucothrinax would be comfortable under these conditions, but again, I'm open to suggestions.

Edited January 8, 2019 by SilverDragon

[zoli]

By far, the most recommended soil mix for germination is 50/50 perlite and peat. The seeds will germinate just fine in a mix like that, provided it isn't overly wet. The problems, however, begin after the seeds germinate. Too much water retention can stunt growth, lead to so called "wet feet", disease, rot, and all sorts of problems. So be sure to transplant each of them into a fast-draining mix as soon as they germinate or risk losing them. I tend to sow my seeds in a fast-draining mix from the get-go so that I can delay transplanting them as much as possible. On the flip side, sometimes you can't delay transplantation for too long, since keeping germinated seeds in a stuffy and poorly aerated baggie can be just as detrimental to them as keeping them in poor soil. So I guess it depends on the situation, really.

[SilverDragon]

Well the Adonidias have only been in the bags since the 1st of this month; the Leucothrinax only about a day. I'm thinking I should move the Adonidias then, although I'll leave the Leucothrinax and hope for the best, since you can imagine how hard it can be trying to find those tiny seeds.

[PalmTreeDude]

I got Adonidia merrillii seeds to germinate by putting them out in the hot summer sun here after about a month, watering them only when dry. Here is is picture of them after they just started coming up in the summer. They seemed slow at first, but once the first frond was fully out, they took off. They like their heat. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by PalmTreeDude

[SilverDragon]

4 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

I got Adonidia merrillii seeds to germinate by putting them out in the hot summer sun here after about a month, watering them only when dry. Here is is picture of them after they just started coming up in the summer. They seemed slow at first, but once the first frond was fully out, they took off. They like their heat. 

That's very exciting and encouraging! I have means of heat and light indoors, so hopefully I can at least keep the babies going until the spring and summer return.

[PalmTreeDude]

3 minutes ago, SilverDragon said:

That's very exciting and encouraging! I have means of heat and light indoors, so hopefully I can at least keep the babies going until the spring and summer return.

I believe that the cycle of the day heating and cooling trigger germination as well. In the summer here is in the 70s at night and can get up to the low 100s during the day, but typically stays in the 90s and high 80s. If you can get a way to provide heat during the day and let them cool a bit (not cold, but cool) at night, you should be set. All of my seeds that germinate well go through this cycle. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by PalmTreeDude

[SilverDragon]

14 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

I believe that the cycle of the day heating and cooling trigger germination as well. In the summer here is in the 70s at night and can get up to the low 100s during the day, but typically stays in the 90s and high 80s. If you can get a way to provide heat during the day and let them cool a bit (not cold, but cool) at night, you should be set. All of my seeds that germinate well go through this cycle. 

Ah also good to know. I'll have to go reduce the temp on them now as a matter of fact 

[Merlyn]

PalmTreeDude how are you handling the seedlings over the winter in VA?  I'm setting up a seedling aquarium on my back porch with a heating mat + thermostat, but I have the advantage of it being generally around 70-80F highs on the porch, even in the middle of winter.  It'll get morning-to-2pm direct sun, and I plan on blanketing it on unusually cold nights.  I'm not sure if this will really be warm enough for them, but I can move the tank inside if it gets too cold.

[NC_Palms]

I grow all my seeds in little trays. It works and helps me keep my palms organized.

[SilverDragon]

1 minute ago, NC_Palms said:

I grow all my seeds in little trays. It works and helps me keep my palms organized.

Ah that's nifty! Do you find yourself misting a lot? Also, what soil do you use?

[NC_Palms]

1 minute ago, SilverDragon said:

Ah that's nifty! Do you find yourself misting a lot? Also, what soil do you use?

I usually keep them inside an indoor greenhouse, which keeps the temperature and humidity levels high.

I am currently using Miracle Grow. It’s cheap and my palms love it!