Planting Trachycarpus in CT

[Tom Ace]

Hi Folks, 

I posted a little while back about a potted Trachy that I was concerned about.  I moved it to a different room and it seems to be stabilizing. 

I'm preparing to plant it out in May and wanted to get some advice.  I have seen or read that some people don't ammend soil, and some ammend with sand and/or compost.  Some make a very large planting hole and some just make it large enough for the root ball.  I even read a bit about installing a drainage grate next to it in order to provide water in winter.  

I have a reasonably sheltered SW corner of my house in 6B Wilton, Connecticut.  One other question would be how far from the walls I should plant it?  Closer I get, I get more heat from the foundation.... but then the fronds grow against the house if I get too close.  I put a pic of the corner here for you to see.  

Thoughts? Thank you in advance!

 

[Allen]

Trachycarpus Fortunei I assume?  Anyway fronds generally get around 4', so it will make a 8' circle.  Go measure a 8' circle - it may shock you a bit.  If you put in the absolute corner it will be right on top of both of those windows.  I would plant at least 2-3' from the house where that cable is in the pic.   To not touch house it will need to be over 4' from house.  If your dirt is good there I would just dig the hole and plant it.  Make sure to plant slightly high instead of too low.  You will be protecting this palm in 6B no matter where you plant next to house.  Wait till May to plant in your area.

[Tom Ace]

Yes it's T.Fortunei.  I got it as a 1-2 gallon size on a trip to virginia beach 4 years ago.  I've potted it on and it's grown very well.  

My plan was to put it in this corner because it's sheltered... but yes I will need to be winterizing it.  Should I consider another location?  I figured the heat from the house would make water uptake in winter easier for the plant.

[PalmTreeDude]

Does the location your planning on planting it in get a lot of sun? While the sun in the Deep South can bother them, it won't up there. 

[Tom Ace]

It's a very sunny spot!  Full sun I'd say.  

[PalmatierMeg]

I agree with Allen. You don't want that palm blocking the view & natural light shining through those windows. Your house is dark enough inside without a palm blocking two windows. Southern exposure and a wall may likely be minimal help in zone 6. You may have to resort to serious protection and supplemental heat next winter.

[Palm crazy]

Is that corner by the windows protected from cold winter winds? 

[Tom Ace]

It is sheltered from winter wind mostly. 

But I wouldn’t try to get by without building a structure around it , at which point I don’t think wind is an issue. Right?

[Palm crazy]

28 minutes ago, Tom Ace said:

It is sheltered from winter wind mostly. 

But I wouldn’t try to get by without building a structure around it , at which point I don’t think wind is an issue. Right?

If your leaving the shelter up all winter then wind is not a problem and you can plant anywhere away from the house.  

[islandwidepalmtrees.com]

What size is your windmill now?  If its under Four feet you can probably place a garbage pale over it for the winter with maybe some c-9 xmas lights in there to give it some heat. And good thing about the pale is can cover and uncover it easily through out the winter depending upon the weather conditions.. Once you start getting taller then that I would recommend wrapping the tree, but make sure you choose a good wrapping system that is ventilated probably.    We sell one that is easy to set up and break down.. We even offer a wrapping service where we we come to CT to wrap it for you.. but its simple enough where you can do it yourself.

[Tom Ace]

Thanks islandwide, 

My palm is probably about 4' give or take.  By the end of this coming growing season I'm sure it will be more than 4'.  

Your cover looks pretty handy.  Have you had any success with CT customers?

C

[islandwidepalmtrees.com]

Yes we have I have a customer in Stratford area that we have kept his windmills alive for the past four years.

[RyManUtah]

How is your soil? They like water in the heat, but you want good draining soil, especially during the winter. It will make a big difference. My dry climate allows me to grow things I shouldn’t be able to. The bounce back is quick because they stay dry and the soil is pretty much sand. You will definitely have to keep it protected in that zone, however. 

[UK_Palms]

17 hours ago, Ryagra said:

How is your soil? They like water in the heat, but you want good draining soil, especially during the winter. It will make a big difference. My dry climate allows me to grow things I shouldn’t be able to. The bounce back is quick because they stay dry and the soil is pretty much sand. You will definitely have to keep it protected in that zone, however. 

In my experience, Trachycarpus's are not that demanding of water, even in hot, dry weather. My CIDP and Theophrasti are far more water demanding and seem to gurgle down about 5 x as much water on a hot, summer's day. The Theo especially, like I have never known a palm to be so water demanding in summer. And if you don't give it that water, it sulks like a b*tch to the point I have to keep the lower trunk constantly submerged. I never realised Phoenix's could be so water demanding, but they are. Except during winter. 

Also, just regarding the Trachycarpus Fortunei... people talk about them surviving -20F in places, but these are one-off specimens or ridiculously hardy cultivars. Generally Fortunei will croak at 0F and they have even been known to die from 8F. Temperatures of 10F will usually cause a defoliation, but some people have reported defoliations at 13-14F. I'm pretty sure the OP will be up against these temps most winters, inland. So his protection will have to be on point. And that can get difficult once the palm reaches a certain size. Supplemental heat may also be required during polar vortex's. 

[RyManUtah]

2 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

In my experience, Trachycarpus's are not that demanding of water, even in hot, dry weather. My CIDP and Theophrasti are far more water demanding and seem to gurgle down about 5 x as much water on a hot, summer's day. The Theo especially, like I have never known a palm to be so water demanding in summer. And if you don't give it that water, it sulks like a b*tch to the point I have to keep the lower trunk constantly submerged. I never realised Phoenix's could be so water demanding, but they are. Except during winter. 

Also, just regarding the Trachycarpus Fortunei... people talk about them surviving -20F in places, but these are one-off specimens or ridiculously hardy cultivars. Generally Fortunei will croak at 0F and they have even been known to die from 8F. Temperatures of 10F will usually cause a defoliation, but some people have reported defoliations at 13-14F. I'm pretty sure the OP will be up against these temps most winters, inland. So his protection will have to be on point. And that can get difficult once the palm reaches a certain size. Supplemental heat may also be required during polar vortex's. 

Very good points. I can’t for the life of me grow a CIDP.  It gets to the teens for a couple days every winter and they croak when they get to a certain size. I’m envious of your trachycarpus. Mine are my most water demanding palms, albeit I get >18cm of rain, mostly in the winter. 

[UK_Palms]

22 minutes ago, Ryagra said:

Very good points. I can’t for the life of me grow a CIDP.  It gets to the teens for a couple days every winter and they croak when they get to a certain size. I’m envious of your trachycarpus. Mine are my most water demanding palms, albeit I get >18cm of rain, mostly in the winter. 

Phoenix's are a challenge in my inland climate as well and not really long term palms here. Unbelievably, my CIDP survived a low of 13F in February 2018 (my coldest temp in 31 years). And this winter just gone it took 21F, but remained damage free. I think I am fortunate to just have a particularly hardy specimen. Others not far from me have lost their CIDP's over the past 2 winers, which goes to show how much cold-hardiness varies between individual specimens. I guess having good drainage, protection from cold winds, avoiding frost pockets and having lots of direct sunlight help too.

I thought they had CIDP's present in southern Utah? And Dacty's? If you position one in a good spot and protect it in during the coldest spell of winter, surely you would be able to get them through? But like myself, they're probably not long term in your location either. 

I think the Trachy's tend to be less water demanding for me because they are slower growing. Especially during the summer months when the Phoenix's go into growth overdrive. 

[RyManUtah]

I’ve seen some Dactys are in decent microclimates, but most of them succumb to the winter and defoliate. Several were removed last winter from commercial areas. I’ll keep my eye out for CIPD. The specimens I’ve seen were all shorter than an average person. I was under the impression the adults can’t make it. That’d be cool if I was wrong, though! I’d love to see more pinnate Palms. Although, we do have Capitatas everywhere. My elevation is a few feet higher than in town. Which is good and bad. I don’t get as cold during air sinks, but not as warm during the day in the winter. Usually 3-5 degrees cooler. 

 

In a perfect world, Phoenix would be in overdrive everywhere they are planted ! 

Your CIDP sounds like an amazing specimen! I’m jealous.

[RyManUtah]

Apologizies for my giant text. My phone is having attitude problems. @UK_Palms not sure if you were tagged or quotes in my above response. 

[UK_Palms]

@Ryagra I think over a number of generations, we will create CIDP seed stock for us northern/mountain/alpine growers, that is far hardier than its current form. Like through selective breeding, where the strongest, most resilient, cold-hardy specimens survive the worst of the weather, and are backcrossed with other hardy specimens to improve overall hardiness of the seed stock. I have a theory that seed grown plants in a cooler climate will also adapt slightly over the years and be able to take slightly colder temps than normal, which may be the case with my seed grown CIDP.

My one has taken 13F in the past with only minor damage and 21F this year with no damage whatsoever. So this must be a hardier than average specimen, or it has become accustomed to my climate and built up more tolerance to cold. If I can get it to flower, I will cross it with another CIDP in my area that has likewise survived the inland UK winters (most die after a few years). The resulting offspring of the two very hardy parents should be quite a bit hardier than average, for sure. And then you keep repeating that process in our climates, over the years. The extra hardy seedstock should keep getting hardier and hardier, I would think. I have other Phoenix specimens as well which I intend to cross this specimen with. 

Mine is certainly not that special, or big. But it has remained totally unscathed from this past winter, at 51N, sat in a pot on my patio. I mean I am at the same latitude as Saskatoon in Canada! 

Edited April 5, 2019 by UK_Palms

[RyManUtah]

@UK_Palms I agree with your theory. Examples: in 2013, we had a lot of bald robustas everywhere. All of the ones grown from seed turned yellow, but didn’t defoliate. That was after three days of HIGHS in the teens and several inches of snow. Which it’s usually lows in the teens. Most of them did come back around in the summer however. 

 

Your palm is vey very healthy and happy!! You definitely got the golden seed!