PALM IDENTIFICATION

[Dodong Usyot]

Hello peeps, 

can you help me identify this of palm tree. Thanks

sorry for the cropped photos

[Pal Meir]

Ptychosperma macarthurii?

[sarasota alex]

Looks like a Ptychosperma sp. commonly available in FL palm trade as P. "schefferi"

[Jungle Yard]

56 minutes ago, sarasota alex said:

Looks like a Ptychosperma sp. commonly available in FL palm trade as P. "schefferi"

Does that mean there are no true P. schefferi in Florida? What is the origin the palm in trade?

[sarasota alex]

On 3/30/2019 at 3:35 PM, Jungle Yard said:

Does that mean there are no true P. schefferi in Florida? What is the origin the palm in trade?

There are true P. schefferi in Florida, but also there are many palms of a different species that are identified as "P. schefferi" here. 

Over 8 years ago I bought and planted a "Ptychosperma schefferi" here in Florida. In March of 2014 Alapetite, Baker, and Nadot published "Evolution of stamen number in Ptychospermatinae" paper and I became suspicious of my palm's true identity. The number of stamens on the flowers of my palm was in the 24-28 range, whereas P. schefferi has a range of 33-38. So I dug into "The revision of the genus Ptychosperma" (Essig, 1978) and the fact that my palm was not P. schefferi was obvious beyond any doubt. This same type of palm I've also seen for sale and in gardens, and it appears to be more or less common among what is described as a P. schefferi in Florida.

It is actually likely to be a form of P. lauterbachii (having an almost perfect match with Essig's description), or an undescribed species closely related to P. lauterbachii.  Also I would not rule out a hybridization origin. I don't know much about Ptychosperma hybridization, but it could have originated as a hybrid.

I no longer own the yard where my original palm grows, but I have a 3 gal offspring from that palm. In my collection list I refer to it as P. lauterbachii.

[Jungle Yard]

1 hour ago, sarasota alex said:

There are true P. schefferi in Florida, but also there are many palms of a different species that are identified as "P. schefferi" here. 

Over 8 years ago I bought and planted a "Ptychosperma schefferi" here in Florida. In March of 2014 Alapetite, Baker, and Nadot published "Evolution of stamen number in Ptychospermatinae" paper and I became suspicious of my palm's true identity. The number of stamens on the flowers of my palm was in the 24-28 range, whereas P. schefferi has a range of 33-38. So I dug into "The revision of the genus Ptychosperma" (Essig, 1978) and the fact that my palm was not P. schefferi was obvious beyond any doubt. This same type of palm I've also seen for sale and in gardens, and it appears to be more or less common among what is described as a P. schefferi in Florida.

It is actually likely to be a form of P. lauterbachii (having an almost perfect match with Essig's description), or an undescribed species closely related to P. lauterbachii.  Also I would not rule out a hybridization origin. I don't know much about Ptychosperma hybridization, but it could have originated as a hybrid.

I no longer own the yard where my original palm grows, but I have a 3 gal offspring from that palm. In my collection list I refer to it as P. lauterbachii.

Thank you for a great explanation!

Mine is small now. We will see what it turns into.

[sarasota alex]

1 hour ago, Jungle Yard said:

Thank you for a great explanation!

Mine is small now. We will see what it turns into.

The most obvious difference once it fruits is that the true P. schefferi will have purple fruit and the inflorescence itself will be orange at the time of fruiting. The P. aff. lauterbachii has orange fruit and the inflorescence is yellowish-green.

Alex, it looks like you're also here in Sarasota. I will send you a PM. We can meet at some point and I will show you the palm in my old yard, which is visible from the street. Or I could tell you where it is.