Queen palm seedlings

[sandgroper]

When I get a bit slack in the garden and don't pick up the seeds that drop from my Queen palm I end up with hundreds of seedlings to remove, it's really surprising how quickly they establish themselves.

[Rickybobby]

Love this!

[GottmitAlex]

Early Last year I picked up many queen seeds. I honestly thought they were foxtail. Lol. In our region, they're almost as prolific as washingtonias.

 

[sandgroper]

They are very common here, they pop up all over the place. They are considered a weed by many but in a garden at least they can be prevented from spreading.

[kinzyjr]

I've noticed the seeds are pretty resilient to cold as well.  I picked up a few seeds off the ground after a 28F advective freeze just to see if they were still viable and they sprouted.

[Pip]

Luckily  in my climate those seeds that germinate rarely continue. They would certainty be a problem in well irrigated gardens.

[Laaz]

We have the same issue with Butia here.

[Marius]

I have a huge problem with hundreds of Phoenix canariensis seedlings. I have to remove them constantly. Washingtonia robusta as well but to a lesser extent 

[Jim in Los Altos]

They are a real nuisance in my yard but by far it's Archtophoenix seedlings that are the most prolific in my yard. They become solid green dense carpets in the spring/summer. Some I've allowed to stay and they mature with several feet of trunk in a matter of just five years or so.

[GottmitAlex]

I gotto admit,  I let them live..... I just (mea culpa) can't  "do them in" 

[Laaz]

Even the seeds of butia that don't make it to the ground sprout... Makes for easy pickings when you want to grow a few out.

 

[Merlyn]

My neighbor has a Queen with about 15 feet of trunk, and I'm constantly mowing over seedlings.  I dug up a few of them and tossed them in pots, just to see how they grow when totally ignored.  I have a couple of 3-4' tall "free" palms now, one of which is already going pinnate.  I don't have a specific planting spot in mind, but it's still neat that they'll grow in a pot with zero effort.  

[PalmCode]

My first Queen inflorescence is happening at the moment.  I'm keen to grow a few from seed. I read that the flesh on the seed is edible as well...

[sandgroper]

9 minutes ago, PalmCode said:

My first Queen inflorescence is happening at the moment.  I'm keen to grow a few from seed. I read that the flesh on the seed is edible as well...

You won't have any dramas germinating seeds from these palms, you'll just need to work out how many thousands of seedlings you want! Don't know about the flesh being edible but I know rats love it.

[PalmCode]

37 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

You won't have any dramas germinating seeds from these palms, you'll just need to work out how many thousands of seedlings you want! Don't know about the flesh being edible but I know rats love it.

Thanks for the info . It might be best to cut the inflorescence off then. I'm not keen for that many and definitely don't want to encourage any rats!

[PalmatierMeg]

Queens are invsively fertile and drop 1,000s of seeds. Fruit is orange, edible but very stringy and attracts wildlife from flies to ducks. 

[Rickybobby]

1 hour ago, sandgroper said:

You won't have any dramas germinating seeds from these palms, you'll just need to work out how many thousands of seedlings you want! Don't know about the flesh being edible but I know rats love it.

Stoked to germinate some queens from stralia mate!

[sandgroper]

2 minutes ago, Rickybobby said:

Stoked to germinate some queens from stralia mate!

Just about to head off to the post office mate!

[UK_Palms]

Seen a few of these popping up around south London where they rarely drop below freezing there. Some with inflorescence as well. But I think the Queens in south London only saw lows of 28F last winter. 

I'm tempted to give one a go, but I'm right out in the country away from any kind of urban heat island effect and saw lows of 22F for an hour or so in January. I think that might be a step too far for them. I've always wanted to give one a go though and might pick one up, maybe... 

[Rickybobby]

27 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

Just about to head off to the post office mate!

That’s so amazing! Holy I’m pumped 

[sandgroper]

58 minutes ago, Rickybobby said:

That’s so amazing! Holy I’m pumped 

Back from the post office, they're on their way mate!

Edited April 23, 2019 by sandgroper
Typo

[sipalms]

18 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Seen a few of these popping up around south London where they rarely drop below freezing there. Some with inflorescence as well. But I think the Queens in south London only saw lows of 28F last winter. 

I'm tempted to give one a go, but I'm right out in the country away from any kind of urban heat island effect and saw lows of 22F for an hour or so in January. I think that might be a step too far for them. I've always wanted to give one a go though and might pick one up, maybe... 

Can you upload some pictures of the Queens in London (not The Queen lol). I have never heard of them ever being long term viable in the ground anywhere on mainland UK. Let alone flowering/fruiting. 

[UK_Palms]

1 hour ago, sipalms said:

Can you upload some pictures of the Queens in London (not The Queen lol). I have never heard of them ever being long term viable in the ground anywhere on mainland UK. Let alone flowering/fruiting. 

I haven't got any pictures at hand, but I have definitely seen them in south London. Although I can't rule out the possibility of them being hybrid mule palms, crossed with Butia. I will try to find some on Google Earth.

Almost anything is going to be long term, viable in London these days... as it is a pretty dry city (contrary to belief) and it is very mild in winter, and can get quite hot in summer. Coconut palms are probably one of the only things you can't grow there. I am 30 miles outside of London and 30 miles inland from the coast, but even I can grow stuff like cacti and even Phoenix Dactylifera here. And London has a much milder climate than me during winter. It is usually 4-5C warmer than me on my coldest of nights and only has frost on maybe 15 nights a year and never below -4C. 

I believe you have Queen Palms in Christchurch, right? And you have about 70-80 frosts a year, and an average low of about 2C in mid winter, compared to an average low of 5C in London in mid-winter...

[Rickybobby]

So germination question with fresh seed. The ones I got from Dominican I worked hard to take the flesh off. Was difficult after soaking for a while. Do they germinate with the flesh on? No fungus issues?

[sipalms]

2 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

I haven't got any pictures at hand, but I have definitely seen them in south London. Although I can't rule out the possibility of them being hybrid mule palms, crossed with Butia. I will try to find some on Google Earth.

Almost anything is going to be long term, viable in London these days... as it is a pretty dry city (contrary to belief) and it is very mild in winter, and can get quite hot in summer. Coconut palms are probably one of the only things you can't grow there. I am 30 miles outside of London and 30 miles inland from the coast, but even I can grow stuff like cacti and even Phoenix Dactylifera here. And London has a much milder climate than me during winter. It is usually 4-5C warmer than me on my coldest of nights and only has frost on maybe 15 nights a year and never below -4C. 

I believe you have Queen Palms in Christchurch, right? And you have about 70-80 frosts a year, and an average low of about 2C in mid winter, compared to an average low of 5C in London in mid-winter...

I'm not here to pick a fight / argue.

But I find the statement about 'anything other than coconuts' a bit of a stretch! Proofs in the pudding, let's see some photos of Nikaus, Royals, Foxtails, Bangalows, large robustas in exposed locations away from buildings, etc and then the case will be closed. I have been to London four times myself over the last 7 years, and hardly even spotted a single phoenix let alone washingtonia etc. I probably needed to be shown where. But 'long term viable' would be more obvious if for example you drove around and saw towering phoenix palms all over the place, like you can here in Christchurch.

It's easy to say in general that London has hot summers and warm winters which may well be the case in the last few years, but the averages speak otherwise and that's what must be taken into account when considering palms long term viability.

Yes - Queens grow well here in Christchurch - this has only been established in the last few years as more have appeared towering in people's back yards etc. But even then, hardly any nurseries sell them down here because they're not considered long term viable due to our record low. Our lowest recorded min of -7.6C back in the 70's is quite different to London's -13C. Then as we've talked about before, you're another 8 degrees further away from the equator and have around 400-600 hours less sunshine per year.

In all seriousness - I would love to see more photos of warm weather palms around UK other than the usual trachys/jubaea and other cold hard varietys, someone should start a thread dedicated to this as it would make great viewing for those of us in further away latitudes experimenting with these.

[UK_Palms]

@sipalms Woah, who said anything about fighting or arguing 

I was just explaining that there are a lot of exotics growing in the London area now. I think I would know as I live just outside of the metropolitan zone, whereas you are on the other side of the world, mate. With all do respect. There are quite a lot of mature Phoenix and Washies around, which were only planted as recently as 2005. It's only in the past decade or two that people have realised that they can survive there, and it is also in part due to global warming / climate change. Summers are hotter than they used to be and winters are generally speaking, more mild.  

That -13C you are quoting occurred on the northwestern outskirts of the city about 30 years ago. I don't believe central London has ever dropped below -9C. And last winter their lowest was around -2C, which is as mild as you could possibly get for that latitude, at 51N. You're right about our sunshine though, which can be particularly poor in winter when nights are very long. But then we also get much more sunshine hours and clear days than you guys in the summer, plus the days are longer too. So there's both pro's and cons to London's location and climate.

Here's a few pics from London... there are even big CIDP's growing in people's back gardens now. I've attached a few pics of Robusta and Filifera as well... don't underestimate what can be grown in London...

 

[sipalms]

1 minute ago, UK_Palms said:

@sipalms Woah, who said anything about fighting or arguing 

I was just explaining that there are a lot of exotics growing in the London area now. I think I would know as I live just outside of the metropolitan zone, whereas you are on the other side of the world, mate. With all do respect. There are quite a lot of mature Phoenix and Washies around, which were only planted as recently as 2005. It's only in the past decade or two that people have realised that they can survive there, and it is also in part due to global warming / climate change. Summers are hotter than they used to be and winters are generally speaking, more mild.  

That -13C you are quoting occurred on the northwestern outskirts of the city about 30 years ago. I don't believe central London has ever dropped below -9C. And last winter their lowest was around -2C, which is as mild as you could possibly get for that latitude, at 51N. You're right about our sunshine though, which can be particularly poor in winter when nights are very long. But then we also get much more sunshine hours and clear days than you guys in the summer, plus the days are longer too. So there's both pro's and cons to London's location and climate.

Here's a few pics from London... there are even big CIDP's growing in people's back gardens now. I've attached a few pics of Robusta and Filifera as well... don't underestimate what can be grown in London...

Nice pics. I didn't want you to read me wrong about arguments which is why I said that ;-).

But in all fairness those palms in the photos all have cold hardiness' of around -10C.

I'm struggling to get my head around there being established (and flowering?) Queens in the UK that have cold tolerances of around -5, or even less like Bangalows etc. Which all have demands for subtropical sun and warmth and lack of cold before even thinking about flowering/fruiting.

As I say though, I'd love to see photos if there is, perhaps start up another thread as I think we have accidentally hijacked this thread!

[greysrigging]

Speaking of Queen Palms, would they have the widest climatic and geographical range of all palm genera ? I'm at 12*s and my one remaining Queen ( others succumbed to Fusarium  palm tree wilt ) is a prolific seeder. Seen them looking healthy in Melbourne at 38*s and I guess they will survive in Hobart and Christchurch at 43*s

And again if healthy at 12*s its not a stretch to imagine them OK in Singapore on the Equator ? If so that's a range of 43 degrees of latitude...... ( guess by range I mean the ability to flower and set viable seeds )

[Laaz]

13 hours ago, Rickybobby said:

So germination question with fresh seed. The ones I got from Dominican I worked hard to take the flesh off. Was difficult after soaking for a while. Do they germinate with the flesh on? No fungus issues?

Us a drill & wire brush attachment in a bucket of water to remove the flesh. Makes a mess, but gets the job done.

 

I use something like this with a long extention. You can get them at the big box stores. 

[Merlyn]

In Central Florida some queens were killed by a single night low of around -7C but many survived.  After that low, apparently a lot of nurseries started collecting seeds from the survivors, so genetic variation means many Queens in Florida may be from a slightly hardier strain.

Washingtonia Robusta takes severe damage around -8C and tends to die around -9 to -10C.  Canariensis is probably about the same.

 

[Rickybobby]

24 minutes ago, Laaz said:

Us a drill & wire brush attachment in a bucket of water to remove the flesh. Makes a mess, but gets the job done.

 

I use something like this with a long extention. You can get them at the big box stores. 

So the flesh must be stripped?

[Laaz]

From what I understand once the flesh turns orange it produces a inhibitor that makes germination harder. I'm sure if you let them sit & the flesh rot off they would eventually germinate, but I have had better luck germinating green fruit after stripping the flesh off.

[Laaz]

Found it.  " Unlike most palms, queen palm seeds must be removed from the fruit before it has ripened because the ripe fruit imparts germination-inhibiting chemicals into the seed. "

[Fusca]

34 minutes ago, Laaz said:

Found it.  " Unlike most palms, queen palm seeds must be removed from the fruit before it has ripened because the ripe fruit imparts germination-inhibiting chemicals into the seed. "

Interesting advice from SFGATE.  I've always tried germinating seed from ripe fruit and germination has been sporadic at best.  Wonder why so many sprout underneath the tree if this was the case?  I may try to germinate some green fruit here in the next few weeks.  Fruit is sweet like pindo dates and makes great jelly too!  Looks like the fruit Dave sent will be a moldy mess after 2-3 weeks in the post, but should still yield some germination success.

[sandgroper]

I've never thought about the seeds too much, I know that if I leave them on the ground they pop up everywhere. I'll pull a few out later today and have a look at what the seed looks like from the germinated ones.

[Kevin S]

 I went out to the backyard take a photo of some seedlings underneath the queen palm sometimes it looks like there’s lawn underneath the queen but they’re all just seedlings.

[sandgroper]

Looks like they germinate once the fruit has rotted off, every one I pulled out looked like this. Sorry about that Rob, I'd have just sent you the seeds if I'd known, there are also plenty of them in the yard.

[Tyrone]

Those seeds that you sent will still germinate. Just keep soaking the seeds change the water daily until the husk rehydrates and then comes off. Then sow in a warm situation . Easy. 

[Rickybobby]

17 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

Those seeds that you sent will still germinate. Just keep soaking the seeds change the water daily until the husk rehydrates and then comes off. Then sow in a warm situation . Easy. 

Ok good advice and it’s funny because I posted green seeds I ripped of a palm in Dominican and people say they weren’t ready but it’s conflicting on this site lol so I have a couple that were green that I stripped the flesh and I will have @sandgroper that will be orange. I’m guessing out of the large amount you sent I should be successful. I will soak in 90f water and hydrogen peroxide and strip the flesh 

[Fusca]

12 hours ago, Rickybobby said:

Ok good advice and it’s funny because I posted green seeds I ripped of a palm in Dominican and people say they weren’t ready but it’s conflicting on this site lol

No conflicting info - I stand behind my statement.  If you go back and read my reply from that thread of yours about palm seed hunting in Punta Cana (quoted below in bold), I pointed out that most of the fruits from your photo were not ready but you'd might have success with the queen palm seeds (Syagrus = queen).  I stated this because I had read somewhere about some having more success germinating queen palm seeds when the fruit was green and this is what @Laaz brought up in his quote from the SFGATE article:                      https://homeguides.sfgate.com/propagate-queen-palm-42955.html  

This isn't the case with most palm seeds.  I have been in the same situation traveling and collecting unripe seeds and trying to germinate them but never succeeded, but it doesn't hurt to try.  If you get any of those other seeds you collected in the DR to germinate I hope you'll share that fact down the road.

"Those fruits look pretty green still - the Sabals look ripe and maybe one of the Roystoneas.  You'll probably be OK with the Syagrus even with green fruits, but the others I'm not so sure will germinate for you.  Good luck with them.  But you may surprise me - let us know if you succeed!"

Jon