New Needle Palms!

[Nj Palms]

I finally got plantable size Needle Palms. They were 55$ for both and free shipping couldn't resist this amazing deal. I just wanted to know if they would have any problem with temps being below 5° one night this winter. They are 3 years old and each plant has 4 suckers.They come from nearby Pensacola so I am assuming they have seen temps sub 20°. I can easily protect them with frost cloth and pine needles. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

[Nj Palms]

[Ben G.]

Congratulations. I think they look great. Leggy...but great. I'm sure they've probably been in a lot of shade.

The first year you might want to try to keep snow and ice out of the growing point just to be safe, but 5F shouldn't be a killer for established needle palms. They have been grown for decades at both the Oklahoma City and Tulsa Zoos, which are both zone 7a areas. They've seen below 0F at both locations and survived. I'm not saying they will be happy with those temps, but they can grow long term in 7a areas from what I have observed.

Good luck with them.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Ben OK

[LivistonaFan]

Sorry to hijack this thread, but it is very convenient to ask something about my needle palm which I received a few days ago. it looks very different from those of  Nj Palms. Yesterday it was very windy and I perceived that this particular plant isn't very wind tolerant. Does it look healthy enough to be planted outside sometime soon? I will slowly acclimatize it to the sun and maybe it will produce more rigid fronds than it has today.

 

 

[Nj Palms]

3 hours ago, LivistonaFan said:

Sorry to hijack this thread, but it is very convenient to ask something about my needle palm which I received a few days ago. it looks very different from those of  Nj Palms. Yesterday it was very windy and I perceived that this particular plant isn't very wind tolerant. Does it look healthy enough to be planted outside sometime soon? I will slowly acclimatize it to the sun and maybe it will produce more rigid fronds than it has today.

 

 

Looks like once it gets out of that small pot it will take off. Looks fine to plant in 7b-8a your temps may not even go below 5° I would plant it as soon as ou have time and get I growing! Enjoy!

[cm05]

16 hours ago, LivistonaFan said:

Sorry to hijack this thread, but it is very convenient to ask something about my needle palm which I received a few days ago. it looks very different from those of  Nj Palms. Yesterday it was very windy and I perceived that this particular plant isn't very wind tolerant. Does it look healthy enough to be planted outside sometime soon? I will slowly acclimatize it to the sun and maybe it will produce more rigid fronds than it has today.

 

 

This looks almost exactly like mine, but with less fronds. In my experience they aren’t wind tolerant, I suppose it’s due to their understory nature. Over time they should get tougher once the plant adjusts to the conditions of wherever it’s planted.

[cm05]

On 5/11/2019 at 5:47 PM, Nj Palms said:

I finally got plantable size Needle Palms. They were 55$ for both and free shipping couldn't resist this amazing deal. I just wanted to know if they would have any problem with temps being below 5° one night this winter. They are 3 years old and each plant has 4 suckers.They come from nearby Pensacola so I am assuming they have seen temps sub 20°. I can easily protect them with frost cloth and pine needles. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!

That does sound like a pretty good deal. I don’t see them having an issue with temperatures under 5°F as they look fairly mature and will have had ample time to establish themselves. But keeping them dry and shielding them from cold winds would go a long way in ensuring their survival.

[Nj Palms]

I have another question. Has anyone had experience of deer eating these palms?

[newtopalmsMD]

I had one 15 gallon needle in my driveway for a a couple of weeks last April before I got to planting it.  Deer often travel down my driveway to nearby wooded lot but did not seem to nibble.  I also leave windmill, Mediterranean fan and pindo out in winter months to get sun during day and leave out over night whenever its above 20.  Have never seen any signs of deer or rodent damage.  

[newtopalmsMD]

I bet I bought two needles from the same place.  They arrived in 1 gallon pots (sort of...one of the two fell out during shipping).  I moved them 4 gallon pots immediately.  My plan was not to plant them but leave them in pots winter them in a protected southern exposure bringing them into an unheated garage when it is predicted to get below 10 F or if ice storms are predicted.

Questions:  In zone 7a what would be the best sun exposure for these guys in pots?  All day? morning sun from 8am till 1 pm?  sun from about 11am till 3Pm? Other?

In winter will full sun and only brought in to unheated garage for 10F or below (or really high winds) a good idea for young needles in zone 7a?

 

Many thanks

[Nj Palms]

10 hours ago, newtopalmsMD said:

I bet I bought two needles from the same place.  They arrived in 1 gallon pots (sort of...one of the two fell out during shipping).  I moved them 4 gallon pots immediately.  My plan was not to plant them but leave them in pots winter them in a protected southern exposure bringing them into an unheated garage when it is predicted to get below 10 F or if ice storms are predicted.

Questions:  In zone 7a what would be the best sun exposure for these guys in pots?  All day? morning sun from 8am till 1 pm?  sun from about 11am till 3Pm? Other?

In winter will full sun and only brought in to unheated garage for 10F or below (or really high winds) a good idea for young needles in zone 7a?

 

Many thanks

Just keep the roots from freezing for more than about 12 hours. If you can put c9 lights around the pots to keep warm that would be good. 

[Nj Palms]

I planted them about a week ago and they have been growing great. Put some Palm tone around them for a boost. Deer have not even neared them. Hoping for the best.

[newtopalmsMD]

looks good!

[LivistonaFan]

 

How do your two needle palms look now? I guess your winter was warmer than average on the East Coast of the US. Winter here was pretty mild too (some said "non-existent") which is very beneficial to get my needle palm established. Because summers here aren't as hot and long as yours (here: official 30 years average high in July and August about 26.5°C - in recent years probably even cooler than some mediterranean parts of the UK), many needle palms in Northern Europe can't establish themselves and slowly decline. 

That's why I planted it against a wall in a semi-protected spot next to a Trachycarpus fortunei. It hasn't lost a leaf since it got planted, but has even grown three new ones. It has still only one sucker growing, maybe there will be more soon.

 

[LivistonaFan]

Not too bad considering its reputation of being unbearably slow in cool climates:

Early September 2019:

November 2020(minus one and a half fronds if you want to compare it with early September 2020). It has even flowered for the first time and set some seeds

Edited November 28, 2020 by LivistonaFan

[climate change virginia]

would I need to protect it in my zone

[ESVA]

17 minutes ago, climate change virginia said:

would I need to protect it in my zone

No, don't need any protection. I'm borderline 7b/8a and have got one in my yard that's about 4 feet tall. One in a while a nearby nursery gets them in. Could have bought ten 3-gallon plants for $30/each a couple years ago but I procrastinated. This one gets a little shade from the house and a gingko tree. Might dig it up and divide it sometime,  but the needles are wicked. 

[climate change virginia]

6 minutes ago, ESVA said:

No, don't need any protection. I'm borderline 7b/8a and have got one in my yard that's about 4 feet tall. One in a while a nearby nursery gets them in. Could have bought ten 3-gallon plants for $30/each a couple years ago but I procrastinated. This one gets a little shade from the house and a gingko tree. Might dig it up and divide it sometime,  but the needles are wicked. 

could I prune it a good amount so it dosent look like a big bush of grass

[Nj Palms]

On 4/19/2020 at 2:01 PM, LivistonaFan said:

 

How do your two needle palms look now? I guess your winter was warmer than average on the East Coast of the US. Winter here was pretty mild too (some said "non-existent") which is very beneficial to get my needle palm established. Because summers here aren't as hot and long as yours (here: official 30 years average high in July and August about 26.5°C - in recent years probably even cooler than some mediterranean parts of the UK), many needle palms in Northern Europe can't establish themselves and slowly decline. 

That's why I planted it against a wall in a semi-protected spot next to a Trachycarpus fortunei. It hasn't lost a leaf since it got planted, but has even grown three new ones. It has still only one sucker growing, maybe there will be more soon.

 

Just saw this now a few months later. Sorry. They grew well the summer they were planted and we had a very warm winter with only a low of 16F all winter. They sadly spear-pulled most likely because of moisture but they have grown back and recovered well. In fact they are still pushing out a bit of growth.

[Nj Palms]

On 11/28/2020 at 11:27 AM, climate change virginia said:

could I prune it a good amount so it dosent look like a big bush of grass

Needles wont need protection in your 7a. Maybe just the first year or two after being planted if they are small. They get huge here and in Virginia. The Virginia Palm Society Group on facebook shows hardy palms and subtropicals in Virginia. Lots of large and mature specimens.

[climate change virginia]

1 hour ago, Nj Palms said:

Needles wont need protection in your 7a. Maybe just the first year or two after being planted if they are small. They get huge here and in Virginia. The Virginia Palm Society Group on facebook shows hardy palms and subtropicals in Virginia. Lots of large and mature specimens.

I will check that out

[Subtropical LIS]

Just a note of caution...

I've experimented with needle palms for about 12 years now.

The fronds are pretty trough once the palm is established, and annual 7a lows or even -10 F windchills or so are not too damaging, however, moisture in the crown in winter can kill the palm because of the freeze/thaw cycle many of us in zone 7 deal with. Unlike sabal minor, which has a tight spear and keeps most moisture out, the open spear of Needles tends to collect moisture in winter. While needles do become hardier to this problem as they get bigger, the main spear can of die, leaving the smaller pups (or suckers) around the base of the palm. Seems you never get a bigger palm to grow. I lost a few this way.

My biggest is going on 8 years old, planted under the eave of the house....it has handled lows down to -4 F (2018) , windchills near 0 F, snow, ice..etc, never any spear pull. A safe bet might be a little overhead moisture protection in the wetter parts of zone 7. 

Here is mine...about 8 years old:

 

[Joe NC]

On 11/28/2020 at 11:27 AM, climate change virginia said:

could I prune it a good amount so it dosent look like a big bush of grass

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/44138-single-trunked-rhapidophyllum-hystrix-pictures/

Check out the above thread on "Bull Needle Palms" or single trunk needles that dont produce many (any?) pups.

I have seen a very large one in person, and its trunk was like a barrel covered in spines.  I tried to keep one of mine pruned into a single trunk, but it really really really wants to have suckers so I gave up. 

I have no idea how you would get your hands on a non-clumping needle, but they don't look like a "big bush of grass" for sure.  However, you don't have any pups as back up if you loose the main stem. 

 

[LivistonaFan]

On 11/28/2020 at 4:21 PM, LivistonaFan said:

 

Early September 2019:

November 28, 2020

November 28, 2021

After this year's cool summer, growth is less noticeable (although it still produced 4 leaves).

[LivistonaFan]

On 11/28/2021 at 12:45 PM, LivistonaFan said:

November 28, 2021

After this year's cool summer, growth is less noticeable (although it still produced 4 leaves).

[Leelanau Palms]

Any updates on your needle and windmill?

[LivistonaFan]

18 hours ago, Leelanau Palms said:

Any updates on your needle and windmill?

Thank you for asking:

The Trachycarpus did grow at least 12 fronds this year, the Needle 5+ on its main trunk and at least another 3 on its single offshoot.

Now, the Trachycarpus is at ca. 9 ft total height with the trunk being over 4 ft tall. 

 

The trunk of the Trachycarpus is curving away from the wall behind and is 1 ft wide at the base even if it doesn't look like it. 

[Leelanau Palms]

Any tips from your personal experience on growing the needle palm?

[LivistonaFan]

8 hours ago, Leelanau Palms said:

Any tips from your personal experience on growing the needle palm?

Hello, I'm afraid I'm not the best person to talk to in this regard. The needle palm proved quite easy for me, even if it is admittedly in a good microclimate. 

As your winters are a bit colder than mine, I would advise you to start with a needle palm that is at least the size of my palm four years ago. As seedlings or juvenile plants, needle palms have not yet reached their full winter hardiness. It should also already have a good root ball, be used to full sun and be familiar with the local climate (not a greenhouse plant or from the southeast).  The palm should then be planted as early as possible in April or whenever the temperatures become spring-like to maximise the season length before the first winter. Placement in a microclimate (south-facing, protected from north winds) is also beneficial. The plant should also be watered deeply every few days during the season for optimal growth. 

Only someone who knows your local conditions better will know whether your needle palm will need winter protection. However, passive protection wouldn't hurt, at least in the first few winters. 

I hope I have been able to help at least a little and have not said anything wildly incorrect.