I need ideas for slow growing shade palms in Florida

[annafl]

We have an area with moderate to deep shade which is presently planted with Livistona Chinensis.  These provided great screening toward our neighbor’s house for a dozen years.  However, they have gotten tall now, and the neighbor’s house is staring at us again.  Unfortunately, this area has moderate to deep shade from the Livistonas and from a live oak amongst others!  I need a screener.  Something somewhat special or different, that can thrive in these conditions.  This area does have irrigation.  Any ideas?  I am in Sarasota, borderline zones 9b/10a near the intracoastal.  No frost.  Thanks in advance!

 

[kinzyjr]

Arenga engleri comes to mind.  Depending on the size of the screening needed, you might also be able to use a clump of well-grown Chamaedorea radicalis.  This is certainly not an exhaustive list, but just the first things that come to my mind.

[palmtodd]

I'v had luck with Dypsis cabadae, pembana, and lutescens in pretty deep shade.  I'd say as long as the palm gets some morning or late afternoon sun it will work. 
They'll be deeper green and have longer petioles in the shade, and also the ringed trunks will stay green much longer. 

Also maybe you could fit a Chambeyronia somewhere in your shaded area. 

[PalmatierMeg]

Rhapis sp, esp. humilis or multifida.

[palmsOrl]

Chamaedorea species such as Chamaedorea cataractum and C. elegans, just to name two in this large genus, would be excellent choices and many are tolerant of temperatures in the upper 20s (briefly).  Some species, such as C.  radicalis and C. microspadix can tolerate low 20s F or even a tad lower.

[The Gerg]

Dypsis Lutescens wants to begin in shade and makes for a good “living fence”:

[annafl]

2 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Arenga engleri comes to mind.  Depending on the size of the screening needed, you might also be able to use a clump of well-grown Chamaedorea radicalis.  This is certainly not an exhaustive list, but just the first things that come to my mind.

Thanks so much for your suggestion!  We actually have two Arenga engleris in our garden in similar areas.  I think it might overwhelm this area a little, as the other ones have gotten very big and full, but I should look into tremula?  Not sure how much space that takes up.  Hoping to find something a bit different from what we have, ideally.  Thanks again!

[annafl]

2 hours ago, palmtodd said:

I'v had luck with Dypsis cabadae, pembana, and lutescens in pretty deep shade.  I'd say as long as the palm gets some morning or late afternoon sun it will work. 
They'll be deeper green and have longer petioles in the shade, and also the ringed trunks will stay green much longer. 

Also maybe you could fit a Chambeyronia somewhere in your shaded area. 

I should have mentioned what we have.  We do have a couple of Dypsis cabadae, pembana, and a row of lutescens not too far away in an area with a little more sun than this, Todd.  Thanks for your great suggestions.  There are also two Chambeyronias not far from this.  I’m hoping to find something we don’t have, that’s hopefully a bit smaller, or at least, slow growers.

 

[annafl]

2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Rhapis sp, esp. humilis or multifida.

Hi Meg!  We have multifida in another area and I love it.  It doesn’t get too tall, but provides pretty good screening.  This area is shadier, but I don’t think it will care.  Thanks so much for the suggestion!  It might work.

[annafl]

2 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

Chamaedorea species such as Chamaedorea cataractum and C. elegans, just to name two in this large genus, would be excellent choices and many are tolerant of temperatures in the upper 20s (briefly).  Some species, such as C.  radicalis and C. microspadix can tolerate low 20s F or even a tad lower.

Thanks for your suggestions!  The cat palm might be another viable option there, as it screens well and doesn’t get too terribly big/tall.  I think it likes a lot of shade, too, and we don’t have one yet.  So far this seems like a really good option!  I’m not very familiar with C. Elegans.  Will look that up.  I have a C. Hooperiana that has been fine, but really slow in an area that has a little more light than this area.  Does fine, but it’s not dense enough for the area in question.  Nearby there is a C. Microspadix that is a real wimp, falling over all the time.  I think it would like more light.  It just has never thrived.

[annafl]

2 hours ago, The Gerg said:

Dypsis Lutescens wants to begin in shade and makes for a good “living fence”:

We have several dypsis lutescens in shade and in part-sun, Gerg.  I prefer the shade ones, but they are just so maintenance heavy, I’m not looking for any more.  Pretty, though, and I’m sure they would work well in that area.  Thank-you for your suggestion!

 

[annafl]

Has anyone heard of a Ptychosperma milan?  I saw one a year ago, and the gentleman said it liked a lot of shade.  I don’t think it was very tall. Maybe 6-8 feet?  Have never seen a reference to it again.

[palmtodd]

you could try some pinangas since some may be able to handle to winter if there's sufficient canopy above.  
Pinanga coronata is the most cold hardy and is nice.

[kinzyjr]

3 hours ago, annafl said:

Thanks so much for your suggestion!  We actually have two Arenga engleris in our garden in similar areas.  I think it might overwhelm this area a little, as the other ones have gotten very big and full, but I should look into tremula?  Not sure how much space that takes up.  Hoping to find something a bit different from what we have, ideally.  Thanks again!

Arenga tremula would probably work in your case.  It is not supposed to be as bushy or hardy as engleri, but in your case, it won't have to be.  I haven't personally attempted tremula since engleri is a hardier and easier to procure.  You're welcome!

[Merlyn]

You can get "seedling pots" of Chamaedorea Elegans at the big store with the big W for about $7 for a pot of 30+ seedlings.  I got one and split it up into 20-30 separate palms, they are all growing rapidly to around 10-15" tall now.  Supposedly they grow fairly quickly to around 2-3' tall and slow down.

The "Cat Palms" cluster pretty thick, tolerate ~30F without major burn and like it shady.  You could get a couple of clusters cheap and separate them out into a row, and they'd probably fill in pretty quick.

You could also go for several different shade palms along your row, depending on how much space you want to cover.  Chamaedorea Metallica is a neat short shady one, as are Licuala Grandis and Peltata types, Areca Triandra or Gurita, Calyptrocalyx Elegans, Geonoma Macrostachys or "sp Entire Leaf," Iguanura, Itaya Amicarum, Reinhardtia Latisecta, Ptychosperma Elegans and a few others.  Many of those are on my list to try *after* I grow some palm canopy, they are all marginal in my cold 9b/9a area but probably ok in 9b/10a.

[annafl]

4 hours ago, Merlyn2220 said:

You can get "seedling pots" of Chamaedorea Elegans at the big store with the big W for about $7 for a pot of 30+ seedlings.  I got one and split it up into 20-30 separate palms, they are all growing rapidly to around 10-15" tall now.  Supposedly they grow fairly quickly to around 2-3' tall and slow down.

The "Cat Palms" cluster pretty thick, tolerate ~30F without major burn and like it shady.  You could get a couple of clusters cheap and separate them out into a row, and they'd probably fill in pretty quick.

You could also go for several different shade palms along your row, depending on how much space you want to cover.  Chamaedorea Metallica is a neat short shady one, as are Licuala Grandis and Peltata types, Areca Triandra or Gurita, Calyptrocalyx Elegans, Geonoma Macrostachys or "sp Entire Leaf," Iguanura, Itaya Amicarum, Reinhardtia Latisecta, Ptychosperma Elegans and a few others.  Many of those are on my list to try *after* I grow some palm canopy, they are all marginal in my cold 9b/9a area but probably ok in 9b/10a.

Thanks for your suggestions!  We’d like to accomplish our task within a couple or three years, so the cat palms sound like the best for screening in this regard.  All are beautiful palms, though.  Thanks!

[joe_OC]

Chuniophoenix nana would be a great choice as well

[joe_OC]

Come to think of it, Chuniophoenix hainanensis too!

[Palmaceae]

Kerriodoxa elegans is a great slow growing, shade loving palm.

[annafl]

On 5/24/2019 at 2:59 PM, palmtodd said:

you could try some pinangas since some may be able to handle to winter if there's sufficient canopy above.  
Pinanga coronata is the most cold hardy and is nice.

Todd, we absolutely love Pinangas, and they would be ideal for this area, except that we’ve already killed two.  It’s just too cold here, even for the coronata.  Thanks for your suggestion, though!

[annafl]

On 5/25/2019 at 2:03 AM, joe_OC said:

Chuniophoenix nana would be a great choice as well

I had that idea too, Joe.  We’ve had one planted there, or ten feet away, for the last 3-4 years.  It does not get enough light to thrive.  It is declining very slowly.  We were just talking about transplanting it to another area with a bit more light.  That tells you how shady this area has gotten.  Oaks, Lychee trees, very large Livistonas, Filicium decipiens, etc.

[annafl]

10 hours ago, Palmaceae said:

Kerriodoxa elegans is a great slow growing, shade loving palm.

I absolutely love this palm, but it is soooo slow, we will die waiting for the screening!  This area can get windy with storms, too.  I think the leaves would look bad all the time.  It’s an amazing palm, though.  Thanks for your suggestion!

 

[Xenon]

Sabal mauritiiformis looks especially nice in shade

[Really full garden]

Wow Anna, you certainly are clear about what you dont want. I am not sure that there is a perfect palm for you, but let me suggest two.

Caryota mitis variegata.  This can be really spectacular and needs shade to look its best. In shade it has an open lacy growth habit. It looks like a giant maidenhair fern.

Wallichia oblongifolia. This is a neat clustering palm with very distinctive foliage. 

I have both these palms growing in deep shade with very brief periods of dappled sun. 

[joe_OC]

Find a nice variegated Rhapis exelcea.  I know Rhapis’ are common, but a variegated one always stops me in my tracks

[SWFLchris]

The clumping form of Areca vestiaria would work well too

[cfkingfish]

Hi Anna,

I am from the Venice/Sarasota area and am pretty familiar with that coastal climate by the bay. I would recommend you go to Rob Branch's house on the north side of town for some great ideas, I was just there on Friday. If you want something that will thrive in heavy shade, you should try Chamaedorea stolonifera and brachypoda, both of which could be planted in between the Livistonas and fill it in. They are both runners so you could start with a couple and they would fill in the rest. 

[annafl]

22 hours ago, Xenon said:

Sabal mauritiiformis looks especially nice in shade

What an interesting idea, Xenon.  Will look into it!

 

[annafl]

18 hours ago, scottgt said:

Wow Anna, you certainly are clear about what you dont want. I am not sure that there is a perfect palm for you, but let me suggest two.

Caryota mitis variegata.  This can be really spectacular and needs shade to look its best. In shade it has an open lacy growth habit. It looks like a giant maidenhair fern.

Wallichia oblongifolia. This is a neat clustering palm with very distinctive foliage. 

I have both these palms growing in deep shade with very brief periods of dappled sun. 

They both sound interesting, Scott.  Not sure what availability would be, but I will look into it.  Thanks!

[annafl]

8 hours ago, SWFLchris said:

The clumping form of Areca vestiaria would work well too

Chris, I absolutely love Areca vestiaria, but we're just a little too cold for its fancy.  Thanks.  Wish it could do well here!

[annafl]

53 minutes ago, cfkingfish said:

Hi Anna,

I am from the Venice/Sarasota area and am pretty familiar with that coastal climate by the bay. I would recommend you go to Rob Branch's house on the north side of town for some great ideas, I was just there on Friday. If you want something that will thrive in heavy shade, you should try Chamaedorea stolonifera and brachypoda, both of which could be planted in between the Livistonas and fill it in. They are both runners so you could start with a couple and they would fill in the rest. 

Hi Christian!  I have been to Rob's several times.  His place is amazing.  I will have to go back soon.  I do get invitations to his sales, just have not been on good days recently.  There is a smallish brachypoda nearby, but it has not taken off yet.  I'm hoping when it does, it will provide some screening right where it is.  Stolonifera is a little slower and shorter?  Not sure.  Great ideas, though.  Hope to meet you someday.

[SWFLchris]

1 hour ago, annafl said:

Chris, I absolutely love Areca vestiaria, but we're just a little too cold for its fancy.  Thanks.  Wish it could do well here!

Anna, I have a buddy growing them on Snead Island for 8 years now. You might actually be okay, depending where in Sarasota you are.

[annafl]

Chris, I've killed two over the last ten years.  It's a slow, painful death for both me and the plant!  Your friend is very lucky, and it must be a bit warmer where he is!

 

[Jeff Searle]

On 5/24/2019 at 12:28 PM, annafl said:

Has anyone heard of a Ptychosperma milan?  I saw one a year ago, and the gentleman said it liked a lot of shade.  I don’t think it was very tall. Maybe 6-8 feet?  Have never seen a reference to it again.

Hi Anna,

  To my knowledge, there is no Ptychosperma milan. Lol....no idea where that came from. I would consider Pinanga coronata. They should handle your temps up there especially with other foliage around them. Their very pretty, upright in growth, not messy don't get huge and always seem to look nice.  Certainly Ptychosperma spp. would do well. If so, P. schefferi always stands out with it's entire terminal leaflets. There's 2 or 3 species of Licualas that get pretty full but will take some time to get up high. L. spinosa actually grows pretty quick and fills in nicely. 

Jeff

[annafl]

On 5/26/2019 at 5:54 PM, joe_OC said:

Find a nice variegated Rhapis exelcea.  I know Rhapis’ are common, but a variegated one always stops me in my tracks

Joe, sorry I missed your post!  I have kind of had my eye out for one.  Don't know how full it would get, but I think it would look lovely there.  Thanks!

[waykoolplantz]

12 hours ago, annafl said:

I have kind of had my eye out for one.  Don't know how full it would get, but I think it would look lovely there.  Thanks!

We have a couple in the pool area. If you can’t find one I can ask Greg to make you one.

[annafl]

4 hours ago, waykoolplantz said:

We have a couple in the pool area. If you can’t find one I can ask Greg to make you one.

Mike, you are too kind.  I will look around.  Thanks so much for the offer!  Ana