Coconut palm substitute

[mistyinca]

Hello all

I am in Southern California and am planning a Hawaiian Resort themed backyard. I understand that coconut palms can not tolerate temps below 70 and so I need to find something that can look similar. I want a tall, skinny trunk palm with similar fronds that I can encourage to grow a little crooked (like in the picture below).

Can anyone recommend some good substitutes? Currently I’m thinking I’ll have to resort to queen palms (not super skinny) and maybe I can achieve the skinny crooked look with California fan palms. 

But I know there are some varieties I don’t know about. 

Thank you,

Misty

[palmsOrl]

My first thought was queen palms too.  If kept well-watered and fertilized, queens should be able to approximate the look of Cocos.  Beccariophoenix alfredii is commonly selected as a Cocos substitute too, but will take longer to get tall I believe.  Also, I've always thought Howea forsteriana looked vaguely coconut palm-like.  I think these are slow too.  What about Ceroxylon?

[RyManUtah]

I thought of Queen and Beccariophoenix also. If you want the skinny look, I would avoid California fan palms. They trunk usually ~3’ wide as adults.

Here’s a similar thread with visuals of the Beccario if you are interested:

 

[Ben in Norcal]

California Fan Palms (Washingtonia filifera) are very robust-trunked (FAT) and also remain shorter than their cousins, the Mexican Fan Palm (Washintonia robusta.)  I would recommend the latter if you want a taller/skinnier look.  That said there are much more unique palms you can grow - Washingtonia are weeds in essentially all of coastal California and the Central Valley.  I concur with the Kentia idea, if you can get them in box size.  Nothing will look more coconutty than them, at least for a long time.

Beccariophoenix and Parajubaea would be other ideas for the coconut look, though both are very robust-trunked.

[mistyinca]

Maybe I have the two mixed up. I live in Riverside county, and it’s known here for all the palm trees. Here’s one in the “wild” near my house (see first pic below) and the “weed” in my yard lol. 

Is this a California fan palm or a Mexican fan palm?

 

[palmsOrl]

How about this Misty?!  Howea forsteriana.

 

***Photographer Wendy Feltham, Lord Howe Island

[mistyinca]

1 minute ago, palmsOrl said:

How about this Misty?!  Howea forsteriana.

 

***Photographer Wendy Feltham, Lord Howe Island

 Ooh! I like that one! I'll look it up.

 

[palmsOrl]

To me, that (a well-grown, mature Howea forsteriana) is about as close to the overall look of a mature winding Cocos as you get without actually being a Cocos.  Sure, Beccariophoenix leaves look much more like Cocos leaves, but the overall look as the palm trunks and gets some height to it is not quite there with Beccariophoenix, imo.

I recently saw some decent sized Beccariophoenix alfredii at a local nursery and they just look like greener mule palms to me.  On second thought, as I look at Google Images, some look a lot like coconut palms and some so-so.

Edited June 25, 2019 by palmsOrl

[mistyinca]

5 minutes ago, palmsOrl said:

To me, that (a well-grown, mature Howea forsteriana) is about as close to the overall look of a mature winding Cocos as you get without actually being a Cocos.  Sure, Beccariophoenix leaves look much more like Cocos leaves, but the overall look as the palm trunks and gets some height to it is not quite there with Beccariophoenix, imo.

Oh...that's the Kentia palm. Yes; I had found those at Moon nursery, but they are very expensive. $900 each for 24" box, 5' tall. And I guess they take a long time to grow. I might get one of those, but my budget will limit me on those.

[RyManUtah]

17 minutes ago, mistyinca said:

Maybe I have the two mixed up. I live in Riverside county, and it’s known here for all the palm trees. Here’s one in the “wild” near my house (see first pic below) and the “weed” in my yard lol. 

Is this a California fan palm or a Mexican fan palm?

 

Mexican fan palm 

[Zeeth]

I'd definitely go with Howea forsteriana in your case. King palm might be good too. 

[Ben in Norcal]

35 minutes ago, mistyinca said:

Oh...that's the Kentia palm. Yes; I had found those at Moon nursery, but they are very expensive. $900 each for 24" box, 5' tall. And I guess they take a long time to grow. I might get one of those, but my budget will limit me on those.

You need to look for better deals.  I had 5-10 foot 24" Kentias delivered up to Norcal for like $300.

The picture you posted is a Mexican fan palm, or a hybrid - definitely not a California fan (much thicker trunked.)

[mistyinca]

Just now, Ben in Norcal said:

You need to look for better deals.  I had 5-10 foot 24" Kentias delivered up to Norcal for like $300.

The picture you posted is a Mexican fan palm, or a hybrid - definitely not a California fan (much thicker trunked.)

Can you recommend a source? Thanks!

[Ben in Norcal]

6 minutes ago, mistyinca said:

Can you recommend a source? Thanks!

I don't think my source has more currently, but PM me for details.  Surely you can get good deals down in Socal on these...Norcal is much more difficult.

[Kim]

Uh, what are your summer temperatures in Riverside? I'm not so sure Howea forsteriana will thrive in a hot, dry climate.

[GottmitAlex]

4 minutes ago, Kim said:

Uh, what are your summer temperatures in Riverside? I'm not so sure Howea forsteriana will thrive in a hot, dry climate.

With enough water, pretty sure it will.

 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

When i was living in SoCal Kentias did much better along the coast or with some shade. Any of the full sun kentias grown more then 11 miles from the coast really had brown tipping and a duller green to them plus even slower growing. Of course most nurserys there sold them as multiples which really slows them down imo. 

[Silas_Sancona]

26 minutes ago, Kim said:

Uh, what are your summer temperatures in Riverside? I'm not so sure Howea forsteriana will thrive in a hot, dry climate.

@Kim, Good point , was wondering the same thing.. Nicest Kentias i remember seeing when on trips to San Diego / L.A. area were located closer to the coast. 

As far as other options,  If queens were a better 'overall' choice, i think i'd pursue something different like Coconut Queens.. Mules perhaps,, though they'd tend to have much thicker trunks..  Either would be better looking than the standard Queen, which are too common, imo..  What about Royals,  X  Foxy Lady?.. ( Maybe too far inland for any of the Veitchia which can be grown there in CA. ) Becarriophoenix would be a great option there also, though, as mentioned, will eventually develop a fat trunk..





 

[GottmitAlex]

7 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

@Kim, Good point , was wondering the same thing.. Nicest Kentias i remember seeing when on trips to San Diego / L.A. area were located closer to the coast. 

As far as other options,  If queens were a better 'overall' choice, i think i'd pursue something different like Coconut Queens.. Mules perhaps,, though they'd tend to have much thicker trunks..  Either would be better looking than the standard Queen, which are too common, imo..  What about Royals,  X  Foxy Lady?.. ( Maybe too far inland for any of the Veitchia which can be grown there in CA. ) Becarriophoenix would be a great option there also, though, as mentioned, will eventually develop a fat trunk..





 

...and very slow growers, however, they are beautiful.

[RJ]

CoCo Queen? 

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

...and very slow growers, however, they are beautiful.

Only Slow if you're impatient..  

[Chris Chance]

I live just east of Riverside in Moreno Valley and Kentia isn't a good idea. They wont like the summer heat unless in deap shade. Personally I never tried one here but I have seen some in town burn last summer. Basically they will look horrible in full sun. Parajubaea, Mules, Cocoqueen, and Beccariopheonix alfredii do pretty good here but will have a fatter trunk. 

 

Livistona species like chinensis get that thin crooked trunk but have fan leaves but will do great.

[Tracy]

3 hours ago, mistyinca said:

Oh...that's the Kentia palm. Yes; I had found those at Moon nursery, but they are very expensive. $900 each for 24" box, 5' tall. And I guess they take a long time to grow. I might get one of those, but my budget will limit me on those.

Welcome to PalmTalk Misty.  Your best input just came from Chris since he lives the closest to where you are and has the most similar climate.  There is a wide variation of palms which will grow in Southern California with some doing better than others in different microclimates.  The amount of shade you have from neighboring trees, to how much direct wind exposure you get during dry Santa Ana winds will all play a factor in what works well for you.  Relative to where you can source plants, take a look on the forum on this website for Palms for Sale.  Some of the International Palm Society members will list plants for sale.  It's worth taking time to do a little research, possibly attending a Southern California Palm Society meeting to actually see what others are growing here in Southern California.  In order to get closest to the "Hawaiian Resort" feel you are looking for, you either have to spend a lot of money on big specimens or be a little patient for things to grow.  Some of the hybrid plams (e.g. Mule, Coco queen) may give you a little more speed due to "hybrid vigor" when hybridized plants grow faster than either of their parent plants.  If you live in area with little shade, consider planting something which is fast growing to provide some shade and or wind protection for your palms.

Like most things in life, the quick solutions aren't always going to be the best solutions in the long run but your inquiry is a great launching off spot.  One palm that wasn't mentioned that might do well in your climate was Phoenix reclinata which over time can get nice arching trunks that aren't too fat.  The problem with them is they take time to develop trunk, require consistent attention because they are a clumping palm which will get out of control unless you literally hack back the new starts and keep the number of trunks limited, and they have nasty needles like the rest of the Phoenix genus palms.  If you don't have to worry about kids and balls, have time and are willing to hack back the continuous upstarts, P. reclinatas can be beautiful.  They are plentiful at the San Diego Wild Animal Park or whatever they call it now, the San Diego Zoo and on the San Diego bay waterfront in front of the County Administration Building.  You can also just look them up.  Being a clumping palm, they do need some space.

[GottmitAlex]

48 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Only Slow if you're impatient..  

I'm not. I only compare them with what I have: four Cocos nucifera which are 3 years younger but they eclipse in size the alfie. I've always said the B.alfredii is the next CIDP: they are slow growing however (imho) more beautiful. 

 

[PalmatierMeg]

If you are willing to regularly water and fertilize them, queen palms can grow large and beautiful. Mule palms are quite attractive. Beccariophoenix alfredii looks most like a true coconut but is slower growing and cold hardier. However, at least here in FL, I've seen an adult B.a. that was huge - trunk was 30"+ in diameter. So, if you want skinny.......

[Tracy]

38 minutes ago, Chris Chance said:

I live just east of Riverside in Moreno Valley and Kentia isn't a good idea. They wont like the summer heat unless in deap shade. Personally I never tried one here but I have seen some in town burn last summer. Basically they will look horrible in full sun. Parajubaea, Mules, Cocoqueen, and Beccariopheonix alfredii do pretty good here but will have a fatter trunk. 

 

Livistona species like chinensis get that thin crooked trunk but have fan leaves but will do great.

Chris, how do Dypsis decipiens and Bismarkia nobilis do out there?  Neither has the skinny trunk but both look tropical, particularly when planted with the right companion plants.  Misty Inca... first photo is Balboa Park Phoenix reclinata, second photo is a Bismarkia growing in my yard in Carlsbad.  While Bismarkia nobilis isn't thin of trunk, the first most spectacular one I saw was growing was on Kauai in a botanical garden.  I knew once I saw the silvery leaves among all the green that I had to grow one.  Having color variation among your palms is the holy grail of all of us palm nuts!

[JubaeaMan138]

I’m right smack in the middle of riverside . I have a lot of really cool stuff thriving . Many dypsis , Copernicia , coccothrinax and lots lots more . Dypsis is partial shade , Copernicia and coccothrinax are full hot inland sun I keep them well watered and they love it . For coco look alike I’m digging my Jubaeopsis that are also doing extremely well in riverside. 

[JubaeaMan138]

Jubaeopsis caffra small . But already showing some awesome orange on the petiole 

[-2 brian]

Kentia’s will not fair well in the IE in sun. They will need shade there. Because of the extremes in heat/cold I believe even king palms tend not to look to good there unless  protected. Beccariophoenix will take quite a long time before they reach any sort of real height and as mentioned will be much fatter trucked. If cost & time are major factors your best bet will most likely be Mexican fan palms. They are cost effective, grow extremely well & fast in your area and are really hardy (will grow even if neglected). Also if kept cleaned up (skinned trunks) can be attractive in the right setting ( think palm springs oasis). They will get extremely tall though. A good idea is to drive around your area and see grows well & looks good in your area. Good luck

 

[mistyinca]

2 hours ago, Kim said:

Uh, what are your summer temperatures in Riverside? I'm not so sure Howea forsteriana will thrive in a hot, dry climate.

Typically the 90s, with an occasional 3 digit temp scattered about. Moon nursery that had them for so expensive has their growing location around the corner from us, and they're thriving.

[mistyinca]

2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

@Kim, Good point , was wondering the same thing.. Nicest Kentias i remember seeing when on trips to San Diego / L.A. area were located closer to the coast. 

As far as other options,  If queens were a better 'overall' choice, i think i'd pursue something different like Coconut Queens.. Mules perhaps,, though they'd tend to have much thicker trunks..  Either would be better looking than the standard Queen, which are too common, imo..  What about Royals,  X  Foxy Lady?.. ( Maybe too far inland for any of the Veitchia which can be grown there in CA. ) Becarriophoenix would be a great option there also, though, as mentioned, will eventually develop a fat trunk..





 

Yes. I saw the coco queens, but yes, the trunks were thicker than the regular queens. In which case, I would just stick with the queen palms since they're plentiful, grow well in this area, and are pretty inexpensive.

[mistyinca]

43 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

If you are willing to regularly water and fertilize them, queen palms can grow large and beautiful. Mule palms are quite attractive. Beccariophoenix alfredii looks most like a true coconut but is slower growing and cold hardier. However, at least here in FL, I've seen an adult B.a. that was huge - trunk was 30"+ in diameter. So, if you want skinny.......

At my previous residence in Eastvale, CA (about 15 miles NW from where I am now), I had several queen palms that grew very well and HUGE after a few years. I will likely be planting a couple of them simply because they're easy to find, grow, and pretty inexpensive. However, they don't look like coconut palms. A little thicker in the trunk (though I've seen some have thinner trunks than others).

[mistyinca]

42 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Chris, how do Dypsis decipiens and Bismarkia nobilis do out there?  Neither has the skinny trunk but both look tropical, particularly when planted with the right companion plants.  Misty Inca... first photo is Balboa Park Phoenix reclinata, second photo is a Bismarkia growing in my yard in Carlsbad.  While Bismarkia nobilis isn't thin of trunk, the first most spectacular one I saw was growing was on Kauai in a botanical garden.  I knew once I saw the silvery leaves among all the green that I had to grow one.  Having color variation among your palms is the holy grail of all of us palm nuts!

Ah I have seen those silvery ones. They are beautiful. And I think I did see some at a resort on Maui. We'll be visiting Kauai in December (my first time). I get lots of inspiration from my Hawaiian vacations.

[mistyinca]

20 minutes ago, -2 brian said:

Kentia’s will not fair well in the IE in sun. They will need shade there. Because of the extremes in heat/cold I believe even king palms tend not to look to good there unless  protected. Beccariophoenix will take quite a long time before they reach any sort of real height and as mentioned will be much fatter trucked. If cost & time are major factors your best bet will most likely be Mexican fan palms. They are cost effective, grow extremely well & fast in your area and are really hardy (will grow even if neglected). Also if kept cleaned up (skinned trunks) can be attractive in the right setting ( think palm springs oasis). They will get extremely tall though. A good idea is to drive around your area and see grows well & looks good in your area. Good luck

 

Oh yeah, the tall fan palms I like have to be kept clean, then they are very attractive. I'm not a fan of the hanging "stuff" covering the trunk.

[Ben in Norcal]

27 minutes ago, mistyinca said:

Yes. I saw the coco queens, but yes, the trunks were thicker than the regular queens. In which case, I would just stick with the queen palms since they're plentiful, grow well in this area, and are pretty inexpensive.

Coco queen trunks are not thicker than regular queens; not even close.  And, far more attractive plants.  Best suggestion yet for your location if you want thin trunks and tropical look.

[JubaeaMan138]

What area of riverside are you In Misty?

[mistyinca]

9 minutes ago, JubaeaMan138 said:

What area of riverside are you In Misty?

I'm in citrus heights. New construction. Not a lick of shade anywhere.

[Chris Chance]

1 hour ago, Tracy said:

Chris, how do Dypsis decipiens and Bismarkia nobilis do out there?  Neither has the skinny trunk but both look tropical, particularly when planted with the right companion plants.  Misty Inca... first photo is Balboa Park Phoenix reclinata, second photo is a Bismarkia growing in my yard in Carlsbad.  While Bismarkia nobilis isn't thin of trunk, the first most spectacular one I saw was growing was on Kauai in a botanical garden.  I knew once I saw the silvery leaves among all the green that I had to grow one.  Having color variation among your palms is the holy grail of all of us palm nuts!

I have tried planting Dypsis decipiens here but lost to fungus. Those can be difficult when you but eventually I want to get another to try. Bizmarkia does great here. I saw a yard with about four of them the were actually flowering not far from me. Problem was they were way over trimed.  

Cocoqueen is a great hybrid and once they root in they grow fast. Definitely don't grow a fat trunk like a healthy queen does. If you Google Syagrus schizophylla x romanzoffiana there's some pictures floating around online. The one I saw in person with trunk was at Josho here on palm talk. Great to see palms in person ro get an idea of size.

[redant]

5 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

To me, that (a well-grown, mature Howea forsteriana) is about as close to the overall look of a mature winding Cocos as you get without actually being a Cocos.  Sure, Beccariophoenix leaves look much more like Cocos leaves, but the overall look as the palm trunks and gets some height to it is not quite there with Beccariophoenix, imo.

I recently saw some decent sized Beccariophoenix alfredii at a local nursery and they just look like greener mule palms to me.  On second thought, as I look at Google Images, some look a lot like coconut palms and some so-so.

Beccariophoenix alfredii in habitat.

Edited June 26, 2019 by redant

[JubaeaMan138]

I am right behind you misty mockingbird canyon !! Woodcrest