Turning a Water Oak Forest into a Tropical Paradise in NW Orlando

[kinzyjr]

1 minute ago, Merlyn said:

Last weekend I had to cut down a lot of Caryota Mitis trunks, which just weren't recovering from the Christmas 2022 3 day freeze.  I think the 20+ hours under freezing and barely hitting 50F for two whole days just did them in.  I honestly should have cut them down earlier, as one trunk looked very much like it had Thielaviopsis.  There's a good chance I'll have to remove this whole cluster.  Here it is with just 1 taller trunk still trying to grow a new spear. 

Kind of surprised the trunk got damaged like that.  Usually the damage is just heavy foliar damage when I see them after a nasty cold snap.  This December 2022 cold snap was a little different, though.

[Merlyn]

And today I moved two clusters of Arenga Micrantha.  They were both in full sun and grew okay...but both got defoliated 3 years in a row.  One is now under the front yard Bismarck and the other is hiding under a Livistona Chinensis on the West side:

I had read that Arenga Micrantha was very hardy, but it just can't handle upper 20s and frost here.  I'll have to prune off another frond or two from the Chinensis, but it's getting tall quickly and should be a good frost canopy this winter.

[Merlyn]

1 minute ago, kinzyjr said:

Kind of surprised the trunk got damaged like that.  Usually the damage is just heavy foliar damage when I see them after a nasty cold snap.  This December 2022 cold snap was a little different, though.

Yeah same here.  The cluster took some serious defoliation damage in January of 2022, with lows in that area of the yard at about 25-26F.  But it warmed up to 65F the next day and only dipped down to ~32 the next night.  Christmas 2022 at my house closely mirrored Eric's posted data for the Leu 2009 freeze.  I suspect it was just 20+ hours under freezing, 2 days below 50F as a high, and frost for good measure! 

[Merlyn]

This is another head-scratcher from last weekend's work: a Caryota Gigas/Obtusa that I planted from a big 1 gallon in March 2020.  It was growing pretty well until it got defoliated in January 2022, and steadfastly refused to green back up and grow normally.  I tried a couple of different fertilizers and fungicides, foliar leaf spray, and nothing worked.  It just kept on growing very slowly with pale green leaves and signs of nitrogen, potassium, iron and every other deficiency you could name.  So I dug it up and repotted it to see if I can save it.  As you can see, it had essentially no decent roots.  There's one little white root in there and everything else is brown and dead. 

I *think* that this is because it was planted right in the middle of old oak stump grindings.  I dug up this whole area a couple of months before I planted it, and it was really dense with stump grindings.  The soil there (3 years later) has fine powdery sand mixed with lots of organics, and holds a lot more water than the rest of the front yard.  Nearby palms are doing okay though, including a Brahea Nitida and a Brahea Clara only about 6 feet away.  The Brahea are roughly where the upright shovel is below, and the Caryota was about 8 feet straight out from the center Coccothrinax below.   So I'm reluctant to replace it with anything else, at least not without heavily amending the soil with perlite/Turface/etc to reduce the waterlogging and organic content.  It's really odd though, because I thought Caryota Gigas/Obtusa really liked water...

[flplantguy]

What did all that organic matter do to the pH? Orchids can do that when they rot out in "sour" mix.  It may explain the deficient growth too if the palm can't grab anything through locked up chemistry and sick roots, even if it likes water.

[kinzyjr]

2 hours ago, Merlyn said:

This is another head-scratcher from last weekend's work: a Caryota Gigas/Obtusa that I planted from a big 1 gallon in March 2020.  It was growing pretty well until it got defoliated in January 2022, and steadfastly refused to green back up and grow normally.  I tried a couple of different fertilizers and fungicides, foliar leaf spray, and nothing worked.  It just kept on growing very slowly with pale green leaves and signs of nitrogen, potassium, iron and every other deficiency you could name.  So I dug it up and repotted it to see if I can save it.  As you can see, it had essentially no decent roots.  There's one little white root in there and everything else is brown and dead. 

I've seen this happen for a variety of reasons.  One of them @flplantguy mentioned; the soil regime just doesn't work for that particular plant and the nutrients are unavailable.  The second is after getting damaged by a freeze, some palms never grow correctly again and eventually kick the bucket.  The most common palm this happens with is coconuts, but it can happen to other species as well.  Others may have additional causes to list.

[Merlyn]

20 minutes ago, flplantguy said:

What did all that organic matter do to the pH? Orchids can do that when they rot out in "sour" mix.  It may explain the deficient growth too if the palm can't grab anything through locked up chemistry and sick roots, even if it likes water.

Yes, that's true.  Organics are usually decomposing on the surface, and I read about fungal/bacterial blooms with heavily amended soil.  Too much of it can suck up all the nitrogen, and severely acidify the soil at the same time.   It may also be that they are ok with moderate water but can't take sitting in constantly wet sandy glop. 

@kinzyjr yeah I had read about palms just going downhill after freezes.  This one just sorta vaguely started looking better at the end of the fall of 2022, but then got defoliated once again at Christmas.  I wonder if Gigas/Obtusa have problems in full sun here?  Another one in a 7g pot is better, but it blanched out when I moved it from a spot with >noon shade to full sun.

[kinzyjr]

12 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

yeah I had read about palms just going downhill after freezes.  This one just sorta vaguely started looking better at the end of the fall of 2022, but then got defoliated once again at Christmas.  I wonder if Gigas/Obtusa have problems in full sun here?  Another one in a 7g pot is better, but it blanched out when I moved it from a spot with >noon shade to full sun.

I think they might when young, but the large specimen at Lake Wire that miraculously survived the fire incident down there seems fine growing above everything.  I've had other Caryota species bleach in sun if they get too much too early - especially afternoon sun. 

Christmas 2022 was advective, so probably a lot of sneaky damage manifesting later.  There were some locations where the sensitive palms took more damage than they did in 2010.  Daytona Beach comes to mind.  It wouldn't surprise me if that was the coup de grâce.

[Merlyn]

The other recent failure was one of the two Pindos I moved back in April.  This one on the pathway was doing okay until it got blown over in a mid-May storm.  I staked it up, but it's possible that a bunch of the new roots were broken or even the growing plate/RIZ (root initiation zone).  And then a week or two later the roof guys shut off the water to the entire East side watering setup.  I have a "Y" connector with the little flip levers on the outlet of a spigot.  One side goes to a hose, the other to a 3-zone valve system on a timer.  They shut off the main spigot when they were done washing their hands, which of course shut off the hose AND the dripline system.  It stayed shut off for at least a month, during our unusually hot drought in June.  I only noticed it in July when I went to use the hose, flipped the lever, and nothing happened.  Obviously I don't blame them, 99.999999% of people would shut off the spigot.  It just didn't occur to me that might have happened.  So this Pindo went downhill really fast in August and only has a slightly green spear left.  I suspect it's dead.  Hopefully it's just lack of water and not a fungal infection, because it's right next to the Caryota Mitis I sliced-and-diced...and it's in the same spot the Dypsis Pembana froze and died:

[Merlyn]

I dug up the above Butia today, and it looks like the accidental lack of watering was its doom.  There were just a couple of new white roots, but definitely not enough to support the number of fronds that I'd left on it.  Just in case it did have some kind of disease I decided to trash it.  Butia are easy to find around here and not too expensive.

And out of an abundance of caution I dug up 4 wheelbarrows full of dirt (about 20 cubic feet) and replaced it with wheelbarrows of dirt I dug out of a random spot in the yard.  And I found a big 4 foot long chunk of subterranean Serenoa Repens.  This was just sitting there next to the previous Dypsis Pembana cluster, slowly rotting away underground.  I'm sure that wasn't a good thing...

I replaced it with an Encephalartos Gratus x Laurentianus transplanted from the back yard.  That's just in case there was a palm-specific fungus left in that spot:

[Merlyn]

In the front yard I moved a Cycas Clivicola (I think) to behind my pet rock:

And based on some reading on the forum (particularly the comments in the below thread) I planted my other Caryota Gigas/Obtusa on the NE side of the driveway.

The general consensus is that they are heavy feeders and do well with compost on top of sandy soil.  I also read that they have problems with Iron and Manganese deficiencies.  One of the mistakes I made with the other one may have been adding some dolomitic lime.  That would have a negative impact on Iron, Manganese, and Potassium (Magnesium from the lime is antagonistic towards Potassium).  So it's possible that the other Gigas would have grown better if I'd heavily fertilized and avoided the lime.  So on this one I amended the sand with about 25lb of Turface MVP and a few bits of cypress mulch to loosen it up...planted the 7g palm...and topped the area with about 2 inches of sand + "garden soil" mix for a solid layer of organics.  On the left is my biggest Allagoptera Arenaria, and on the right is a Cycas Panzhihuaensis x Debaoensis.

[Merlyn]

Here's my two Cryosophila Warscewiczii, purchased as a 1 gallon back around August 2021.  This one I planted in October 2021 in a part shade spot with Bordelon banana to the West side of it.  That helped in the 24-26F frost in January 2022, it only took maybe 25% burn.  It was undamaged at 26-28F with 20+ hours under freezing in Christmas 2022.  It's a really pretty palm and definitely a 9B palm in my experience.  This one is about 2 feet tall and has a nice new spear growing:

And this one stayed in a pot until June this year, clearly a lot smaller:

[Merlyn]

And now it's clear that I have either the dumbest or most suicidal Encephalartos Ferox around...sigh.  This one coned last August when it had 2 ranks of somewhat sunburnt fronds.  I hoped for a good flush this spring, and the center kept on moving around like it was thinking about a 20 leaf monster flush.  Nope.  After losing half the fronds to 20+ hours under freezing at Christmas 2022, this beastie decided to push 3 more cones!

[Merlyn]

This weekend I decided to replace the long-suffering Caryota Gigas/Obtusa in the front yard with a different long-suffering Caryota Mitis variegated from the back yard!  I had originally planted it on the East side of the center of the backyard, hoping it would be a nice pop of unusual white-yellow in a sea of green leaves.  Alas it too was burned to the ground with the extended Christmas freeze (20+ hours under freezing and 3 days under 50F).  It just wasn't going to be a good long-term plant in the coldest spot in my yard.  So it goes into the front yard where it's a couple of degrees warmer.  Right now it's crowded by 3 pretty big cycads - Manikensis/Turneri on the left, a Clivicola behind it, and a Debaoensis to the right.

In the backyard I moved a Butia Yatay x Jubaea into that spot.  This one was in the East side yard.  I thought I planted an Acoelorrhaphe Wrightii Cerifera (Everglades palm) to the right of it, but apparently I mislabeled one of my Sabal Causiarum seedlings and planted that instead.  Whups!  The Causiarum would probably die if I moved it, so this was a good option for the cold spot in the yard:

And the new home:

I had planted a Queen as temporary shade & frost protection for the Mitis, you can see the trunk in the upper left corner above.  It's not needed to protect the BxJ, so I dug that out and trashed it.  It was a "volunteer" seedling that randomly appeared in my yard ~4 years ago.

[Merlyn]

On the SW side I planted my first "Mast Tree" (Polyalthia Longifolia v. Pendula) as a hardiness experiment:

I'll probably plant another one in the front yard for a hardiness comparison.  In the center backyard I had a double Encephalartos Transvenosus that really didn't like being in full sun.  Maybe it would do better when it gets older.  But I moved it to the East side pathway near an Elaeis Guineensis seedling:

And I replaced it with another Encephalartos Gratus x Laurentianus.  I bought 5 of these from Neil in Cocoa Beach.  He made the hybrids from plants in his yard, and they've been very hardy to sun, heat, cold and frost.  Hopefully this will make a good focal point in front of the Beccariophoenix Alfredii Triple of DOOM!!!

[Merlyn]

Back in April I had split up the Butia triple, and this one was planted in the backyard just West of my agave bed.  I wanted something hardy and with a medium crown diameter.  But with the BxJ over just East of center I decided I didn't want another big Butia back here.  Maybe it would have made a good contrast with the hybrid, but there are already 2 other big Butia in view already.  So I dug this one back up and moved it to the front yard on the West side:

Effectively it was nearly perfectly "root pruned" and came out in one chunk.  Hopefully it'll have no issues rooting into the new spot.  I replaced it with an oddity that many of you know.  I told my wife I bought a new girlfriend, her name is "Lisa" and she's a mutant.  Predictably...she just rolled her eyes and sighed.  For those who haven't heard of it, this is a Sabal Palmetto mutation called "Lisa."  Robert Riefer found these in 1998 and started propagating these, and named them for his wife.  This one is about 5-6 years old from seed.

[D. Morrowii]

Its pretty amazing the difference in appearance that you get when the leaf stays fused together. Should be a real nice contrast to the Butias. 

[Merlyn]

On Sunday I tackled the last decent sized weedy area, on the East side near the well equipment.  This is a really protected area so the invasive but frost-tender giant elephant ears (Xanthosoma sagittifolium, I think) were being...er...invasive!!!

There was also some weird tall tree-ish weed with a big red seed pod.  Fortunately it reseeds...but not aggressively.  I'll need about 3 cubic yards of mulch to fill in this area.  It's a protected area, but it's also not too visible.  So after I finish painting the house I might plant a couple of things there.

[Merlyn]

And you may have guessed...in the above photo of a mostly dirt area it is now filled with 50+ little sprouts of elephant ears.  It may take a bit of mulch and some time to kill all of them off.  But I just had another 10 cubic yards delivered, so that's my job for this weekend.  Last weekend I did a bunch of weeding elsewhere and put in about 10-15 new agaves.  And on Sunday I redid the area around the Sabal "Lisa."  I moved the Dioon Angustifolium up to the front yard and planted a Dioon Holmgrenii in the front of Lisa.  To the right is now my largest Dioon Merolae, in the front right is a fasciated/mutant Zamia Furfuracea.  Behind the Merolae is a Rhapis Excelsa "Koban" with the really bright green new leaf.  That one came from @Hferrell87, hopefully it'll adapt to the sun over the winter.  Just behind it is a sorta-hidden Syagrus Schizophylla that I picked up at this spring's CFPACS sale:

[Merlyn]

Today I chainsawed out 2 and a half Viburnum shrubberies, which is really odd.  Two weeks ago I was working back in that area and these all looked perfect.  A week later and two were clearly D-E-D.  On the "half" one trunk looks totally normal, but the other one was completely dead.  It looks like they are actually separate plants and the trunks just squooshed together near the bottom.  The cause of death is still unknown, but I noted that the "heart" on some of the branches was collapsed and hollow.  Here's the before:

And the 15 foot wide hole in my hedgeline:

One possible culprit is that there's an old dead oak stump centered under the fenceline, about halfway between the two visible concrete pads.  Maybe the underground rotting oak trunks are being eaten away by a fungus, and that fungus also attacks Viburnum roots?  Two other spots with random rapid Viburnum deaths also had old oak trunks, so there might be a link.  Here's the cut top of one of them:

And on the East hedgeline there was another that died a couple of weeks ago, with no apparent issues with either of the neighboring Viburnum.  I dug this one out and planted a pair of Podocarpus "Maki" and a "Mast Tree" aka Polyalthia Longifolia v. Pendula.  This will be a good hardiness test for a young Mast tree, and give me an idea if the Podocarpus will make a decent replacement:

[Merlyn]

In the front yard I had another unfortunate death, this time a Butia that was part of a triple.  It started by having fronds die off earlier than normal.  That was last fall, and I gave it fertilizer and fungicides...and it still kept verrrrrry slowly looking worse and worse.  Finally there were only a couple of live green fronds left and the new spear was wilted and dying:

One possible culprit is the two others in the triple were just pushing it apart and damaging the roots or RIZ.  Another possibility is hurricane damage, since we did have 75mph + gusts last summer.  There wasn't any visible discoloration in the petioles/rachis, but it certainly could be some kind of fungal or bacterial disease.  The last, and maybe most likely culprit is that I tied the three together when I planted them...and then promptly forgot to take off the rope!  These were planted in April 2021 and I had tied them together to keep them from falling over while rooting in.  That rope got pushed down as the palms grew, and it ended up just below the mulch layer and was seriously constricting the root base.  I only found it because my reciprocating saw kept getting tangled in something it couldn't cut...here's the rope AFTER I snipped through it and cut it loose.  Durrrrrrrr....needless to say I carefully removed it from around the other two. 

Hopefully the other two will be fine, and maybe I'll add a third back in there if they survive the winter with no issues.

[Merlyn]

So in better news I planted a bunch of agaves to fill out the open spots.  Some plants just didn't recover after a cold winter, and it's clear that they were never going to survive the swamps of Floriduh.  I removed a Palmeri "Kutsugen No Mai Ogi," a "Little Shark," an Ocahui, a Miquihuana Silver, a Titanota "White Ice," a "Blue Flame," a Nickelsiae, a "Desert Love," and a random Salmiana.  Other random agave deaths are a Gigantensis that got repeatedly stomped by the roofers, a Mangave "Silver Fox" and an Attenuata "Ray of Light" that never resprouted after the extended ~28F last Christmas. 

New plantings in the rear agave bed are along the curved section of blocks.  At front bottom right is a Lophantha "Miniskirt" that was in too much shade to grow well.  Just to the left is a "Kissho Khan" that has been growing really well for a couple of years.  Behind it is a Bracteosa "Stingray" variegated, then a Bracteosa "Daddy Longlegs" and a tiny Xylonacantha "Frostbite."  In the background is a Montana "Baccarat" that I planted last fall.  The "Ripple Effect" sneaking in from the upper left is a real favorite of mine!

Just to the East of that are a few new plantings too.  The center front one is a Lophantha "La Bufa Baby" that has a neat bluish haze on new leaves.  In the background right is a "Confederate Rose," and to the left of it is a Filifera x Isthmensis.  These have been really great small clustering agaves.

Further to the left is the "riverbed" in white marble.  In the bottom just right of center I added a Mangave "Praying Hands."  Just behind it is a Romanii (not the "Shadow Dancer" but just the regular one) and on the centerline of the white "riverbed" behind it is a Bracteosa "Mateo," with an Obscura "Red Skyline" a few feet behind it.  Just to the right of the streambed is a Salmiana "Logan Calhoun" in the spot missing a few red lava rocks.

[SFLP48584]

On 8/30/2023 at 9:46 PM, Merlyn said:

Yes, that's true.  Organics are usually decomposing on the surface, and I read about fungal/bacterial blooms with heavily amended soil.  Too much of it can suck up all the nitrogen, and severely acidify the soil at the same time.   It may also be that they are ok with moderate water but can't take sitting in constantly wet sandy glop. 

@kinzyjr yeah I had read about palms just going downhill after freezes.  This one just sorta vaguely started looking better at the end of the fall of 2022, but then got defoliated once again at Christmas.  I wonder if Gigas/Obtusa have problems in full sun here?  Another one in a 7g pot is better, but it blanched out when I moved it from a spot with >noon shade to full sun.

I'm definitely going to save this chart Merlyn.  Thank you for posting.  It looks like keeping the pH of the soil neutral is the best way to ensure well nourished palms.

[Merlyn]

So here's an oddball one...bears took out a bunch of Dwarf Cavendish bananas in the front yard!  I was thinking of removing these anyway, so today the remnants went into the bin.  Nothing else was touched, but there's a big CHOMP mark in the middle of this trunk...

I planted these to shade the Archontophoenix Alexandrae in the background here, and it definitely helped it acclimate.  In the foreground is the Beccariophoenix Fenestralis that I planted this spring.  It's settled in very well and hopefully will handle the upcoming winter!

[Merlyn]

In the back yard another Viburnum died...it was looking just fine on October 29th when I removed two others.  Today it was 100% wilted but the trunk tissue was still fairly green.  I ripped this one out too...sigh.

In the spot with 3 D-E-D Viburnum I planted a Bambusa Glaucophylla Variegated (foreground) and Bambusa Multiplex "Golden Goddess" (background).  It was getting dark so the picture was pretty crappy...had to "enhance" it a bunch just to see the plants!

And in the front yard my neighbor ripped out a big hedgeline of Viburnum last weekend.  He'd been talking about doing it for a couple of years, because the previous owner of his house planted them 5' or so on his side of the property line.  I planted a replacement row of Viburnum almost exactly 2 years ago, but on the property line this time.  From left to right is a new planting of Polyalthia Longifolia v. Pendula (Mast Tree), a Gaussia Princeps (3 years in the ground), a Dypsis/Chrysalidocarpus Pembana (transplanted there earlier this summer), a Gaussia Princeps (originally a quad, now a triple?) right foreground.  Today I planted a Cocculus Laurifolius "Laurel-leaf Snailseed" just behind the Princeps cluster.  It's pretty small but this should be a good test for the winter hardiness.

[D. Morrowii]

Its certainly the first time I’ve heard “a bear attacked my bananas!” 

[Merlyn]

35 minutes ago, D. Morrowii said:

Its certainly the first time I’ve heard “a bear attacked my bananas!” 

Hah, yeah I know!  The chomp marks were about 4 feet up the trunk, about right for the bear that wanders through every once in a while.  My neighbors across the street were chopping up a couple of Ice Dream bananas yesterday, I wonder if the bears found them to be a fun chew toy too?  It actually isn't the first time a bear has mangled something, but last time was a few years ago.  I found a white bird of paradise ripped out of the ground and strewn all around the backyard in little bits and pieces.  I have pictures somewhere,.... 

[D. Morrowii]

Sort of strange that they would do it in way. I wonder if its out of frustration or to mark territory or just for fun? At least he difnt trample the Archie or the fenestralis!

[flplantguy]

They could be looking for water too. I've noticed smaller animals doing this to plants when it's been very dry too.

[Merlyn]

10 hours ago, D. Morrowii said:

Sort of strange that they would do it in way. I wonder if its out of frustration or to mark territory or just for fun? At least he difnt trample the Archie or the fenestralis!

The white bird of paradise was definitely a playtime tug-o-war between two young bears.  There was a 4 foot chunk of stem with bite marks on both ends, and the center was untouched except for the fibers being all stretched out.  That one definitely could have been coyotes, they have also been through the neighborhood occasionally.

@flplantguy I suppose it's possible, though there's a retention pond about 50 yards behind my house.  Maybe it was looking for a back scratching tree and got angry when it fell over. 

[flplantguy]

You make me glad I only have smaller animals nearby lol.  I have enough challenges without that!

[Merlyn]

I haven't posted an update in a few months, mostly because I spent all my time inside doing a whole bunch of painting, tile, and drywall work.  I'd been putting off the remodeling work because...er...reasons.    But of course that meant that the weeds had about 4 months of free growth, and have really started taking over.  I was hoping the backyard would start filling in, but I didn't mean fill in with weeds!!!

I went through once with glyphosate + dawn detergent mix a few weeks ago, and it looks a lot better today.  But a few months of neglect means I'll have to do a lot more work this summer. 

One thing I did was chop down the overgrown Cereus Repandus-ish cactus in the whisky barrel.  It was getting way too big, and had some nutrient problems on older growth anyway.  The one on the left side of the path is ok for now, but I'm going to have to cut it back again before it takes over the entire path!

[Merlyn]

This afternoon I planted a Bambusa Multiplex "Alphonse Karr."  It was a decent sized 3 gallon pot that I bought from Beautiful Bamboo at the Leu Gardens plant sale last month.  I cut it exactly in half with a drywall saw, even though it was sending up one shoot already.  Generally it's a good idea to leave them alone while shooting, but I'm a rebel and did it anyway!    Peeking in from the right is a Bambusa Cerosissima that I planted last March.  These are is in the SE corner and should be a good 15+ foot sound & sight block along that edge.

[RainforestCafe]

@Merlyn crazy amount of work you've done there!

On 4/3/2024 at 6:34 PM, Merlyn said:

One thing I did was chop down the overgrown Cereus Repandus-ish cactus in the whisky barrel.  It was getting way too big, and had some nutrient problems on older growth anyway.  The one on the left side of the path is ok for now, but I'm going to have to cut it back again before it takes over the entire path!

When I saw this picture, I thought "wow, that looks like those cactuses in Aruba". I looked it up and sure enough, it appears that they are the same cactuses all over Aruba. Where did you get them from? I might want to try one myself. The one on the left side of the path looks really good.

With the Alphonse Karr bamboo, I just planted out 4 of them a few weeks ago.  What a coincidence! Did they tell you about how big it'd get? I put in mine with the assumption that they were supposed to be a smaller variety of bamboo (~15-20'), but I see conflicting information all over the internet regarding their mature height.

Good job on the garden overall, by the way. You're a good test study for the hardiness of so many different species of palms 😂

[Merlyn]

@RainforestCafe thanks!  I have spent waaaaay too much time out there and even more time planning and sketching layouts.  My yard is definitely a Darwinian experiment!  I've had a bunch of (mostly expected) disappointments, but some surprising survivals. 

I actually bought those cacti off of a Facebook marketplace ad.  He had 3 big 15 gallon pots with 2 or 3 trunks each for something silly like $25 each.  They might be Cereus Repandus or Peruvianus, I never bothered to try and figure out which.  A local nursery sells stub cuttings rooted in pots for about $15, so you might be able to find a big chunk locally.  I just planted them into a sandy area with good drainage in each direction.  The one next to the path is the highest spot around, and the "soil" is mostly builder's sand in that spot.  It's never had any nutrient or water problems.

On the Alphonse Karr, I have also found conflicting numbers.  Some say 15-20' but others say 30'.  The most common numbers I saw for it are around 20-25' tall and 1-1.5" culm diameter, which matches most of the "mature clump" photos.  Bambooweb (run by the American Bamboo Society) lists it at 25' and 1.5" diameter with a hardiness to 18F.  Based on photos like this, that seems reasonable:

https://bambooweb.info/BambooPlants.php?Genus=Bambusa&DiaValue=+&HtValue=+&TempCompare=<%3D&TempValue=+&SunValue=+&Clumper=&Match=AND&Button=FIND&Units=I&Sort=1

 

[FlaPalmLover]

Will definitely be interesting to see how that alfredii looks as it grows. It appears to be well on its way to trunking.

[Merlyn]

Tonight I cut down a somewhat disappointing bamboozle, Dendrocalamus Elegans.  I planted this around August 2022, and it's just never impressed me with the shape or foliage.  It has extremely small leaves, only about 0.25" x 1.75" maximum.  It's also not cold-hardy, defoliating completely at about 30F.  And the fronds drape really far down, so I had to cut the ends off to keep them from smacking me in the head.  And the leaves are always kind of medium to light green, regardless of fertilizing.  Overall, just meh.  It looks a lot like two others nearby, Dendrocalamus Dumosus and Longliensis.  Those two might find their way to the dump too.

[RainforestCafe]

On 4/8/2024 at 10:15 AM, Merlyn said:

@RainforestCafe thanks!  I have spent waaaaay too much time out there and even more time planning and sketching layouts.  My yard is definitely a Darwinian experiment!  I've had a bunch of (mostly expected) disappointments, but some surprising survivals. 

Haha I do the same thing. I spend countless hours walking around my yard laying things out in my head, and trying to picture where things should go and what would look good.

What palms have been your surprising survivals? I believe in other threads, you'd mentioned hitting the mid 20s, so I'm curious what was reliable for you with those temperatures. I know the area I'm in has the potential to hit those temperatures and I'm pretty risk averse when it comes to planting things unless they grow fast. 

[Merlyn]

All the leaves are broooown...and the sky is grey!  (I'm possibly dating myself with those lyrics.)  So on Monday I happened to look up and this Queen was completely brown and dead.  Unfortunately I didn't spot it earlier, so I have no idea if it had the typical one-sided death of Fusarium.  The base of the fronds clearly had some blackish discoloration.  It looks like it's some kind of fungal or bacterial rot in the trunk.  I lopped off all the fronds, cut them up and bagged them to go out with the yard waste.  The trunk will have to wait a few days...

Only a bit of the newest spear was still green, and the brown color was inconclusive.  I could guess that one side was a bit more thoroughly dead...but not really enough to be sure.

And the cut end of this chunk shows black discoloration, but no clear pattern. 

It didn't smell rotten, just mostly dried out.  I've seen four Queens in the neighborhood die recently, all apparently from Thielaviopsis.  They all had the top crown fall over to the side.  That's my best guess at the moment, though other diseases are obviously possible.  My "instant canopy" on the West side might be doomed.  At the moment the other 7 Queens on the West side look okay.  Two might have fronds dying a bit early, but that could also be from a lack of fertilizer last fall.  I fertilized everything around mid-August but then got busy remodeling and didn't do my normal late November dose.

[Merlyn]

@RainforestCafe I've hit a minimum of 24.6F in the backyard, and about 27F in the front yard.  The backyard is a few feet lower, so the cold air probably sinks down along the back fenceline.  So as far as survivals go:

• Archontophoenix Alexandrae, Cunninghamiana, and Maxima all did well with 27F + frost, though they did have overhead canopy
• Areca Triandra and Pinanga Coronata survived 27F in a protected corner.  They aren't growing much, due to lack of direct sun.
• Arenga Hookeriana - bounced back from bad burn at 26F and are looking great
• Brahea Clara and Nitida - shouldn't survive in FL but are doing pretty okay so far!
• Coccothrinax Argentea - also not hardy but has bounced back from defoliation several times
• Corypha Umbraculifera - still pretty small but also bounces back fast
• Cryosophila Warscewiczii - took 25F with frost like a champ!
• Dypsis Arenarum - burnt to a crisp at 24.6F with frost, but grew right back.
• Elaeis Guineensis - 25F with frost and a cardboard box over it, minimal damage
• Leucothrinax Morrisii - 27F with frost and only 25% burn
• Ptychosperma Macarthurii and Schefferi - made it through 25-26F with frost and defoliation, and grew right back

There are probably some more, but most of my unexpected successes are with agaves.  I've lost quite literally 180 agaves, aloes and cacti.  But I've got about 250 thriving in the ground and another 50ish in pots waiting for a spot!