Turning a Water Oak Forest into a Tropical Paradise in NW Orlando

[Merlyn]

26 minutes ago, RiverCityRichard said:

Looking great!

 

I just picked up a Gaussia Princeps from Caribbean Palms last week. Keep walking around looking for the right spot to plant it. What has been your experience with them here?

Thanks!  I have had good luck with Gaussia Princeps overall, at least more so than the similar-looking Bottle and Spindle palms.  I bought about 30 seedlings 4 or 5 years ago and planted most of them.  A few were killed in winter freezes in the 24.6 to 28F range, but most survived.  They didn't seem to take noticeable damage above 30F, where Hyophorbes burn pretty bad around there.

They are very slow growing so far.  The largest is about the size of the ones in yesterday's photo, maybe 2 to 3 feet tall overall.  They grow MONSTER root systems while the above ground stuff doesn't grow much at all, kind of like Copernicias.  But they seem at least somewhat tolerant of being dug up and moved or repotted.  Full sun and part shade seem fine, though in deep shade they just sit there and barely grow.  I would pick some spot with Some sun but canopy if you expect hard freezes.

[RiverCityRichard]

20 hours ago, Merlyn said:

Thanks!  I have had good luck with Gaussia Princeps overall, at least more so than the similar-looking Bottle and Spindle palms.  I bought about 30 seedlings 4 or 5 years ago and planted most of them.  A few were killed in winter freezes in the 24.6 to 28F range, but most survived.  They didn't seem to take noticeable damage above 30F, where Hyophorbes burn pretty bad around there.

They are very slow growing so far.  The largest is about the size of the ones in yesterday's photo, maybe 2 to 3 feet tall overall.  They grow MONSTER root systems while the above ground stuff doesn't grow much at all, kind of like Copernicias.  But they seem at least somewhat tolerant of being dug up and moved or repotted.  Full sun and part shade seem fine, though in deep shade they just sit there and barely grow.  I would pick some spot with Some sun but canopy if you expect hard freezes.

Outstanding, thank you! This one is fairly decent sized, bursting out of a 3g. Good news about the cold hardiness. Thinking I’ll put it against the east side of the house for heat and full sun, and I bought some crushed limestone to amend the soil with. There will be a Hong Kong orchid giving some partial overhead canopy.

[Merlyn]

@RiverCityRichard mine are in regular sandy soil, with no amendments.  They might grow better with added limestone, but I haven't seen any signs of nutrient deficiencies or other problems here.  

@palmfriend I have become much more ruthless when "editing" out stuff in the yard.  Sometimes it is a snap decision, like the Madagascariensis that I realized I just didn't like it.  Sometimes it is a long term plan like knowing the Sylvestris and Queens had to go eventually.  I also have to accept that some things I move may not survive.  

@Cindy Adair thanks!    i hope to get to the "maintenance" phase sometime soon, so I can sit back and enjoy instead of working on it all the time.  But somehow I keep finding more palms and cycads to buy and plant! 

[RainforestCafe]

On 8/10/2024 at 1:55 PM, Merlyn said:

 

@Merlyn hey there! I've been working out west this summer so I'm getting caught up on some of the threads now to see what I've missed!

Your garden looks really good! I really like that new area you've made where you have the red brick path and the new bamboo clumps going in the bed to the right of it. It already looks really good, but that's going to look even better when everything matures.

In the picture I quoted above, this is your new spot for the chambeyronia, right? I love the contrast of the feathery leaves and then the fan leaves of the palm behind it. That's a really cool look that I'm going to steal and replicate myself 😂 The one thing I thought of though, was how big and spreading those chinensis can get. Do you think they'll kind of run into each other a lot as they grow? Because those are two palms that both spread a lot before moving up higher. And they'll probably move up at roughly a similar rate together. One thing I always try to do is put taller things next to things that stay lower and spread and take awhile to move up. So for example, next to a Chinese fan palm that stays low for awhile and takes up a fairly large footprint, I'd put archontophoenix or a kentiopsis or something that's quicker and/or more upright. Just curious your thoughts on that.

One more question: with the rhapis that you said was getting a little invasive... How fast did that guy grow, and how tall are they? I wanted to plant some and I actually want them to spread and get invasive. How long did it take them to gain some height? Id like them to screen an area and need them to be about 8' tall and was wondering if that's feasible and how long it'd take.

[Merlyn]

@RainforestCafe thanks, I really like that red brick paver road too.  The bamboo has been sprouting fast and is already noise-damping-equivalent to the old Viburnum hedges.  I'll find out in a couple of years if it's going to be a maintenance hassle or not...  I also moved 7 good-sized clusters of Arenga Engleri into a hedgeline just inside the bamboo.  I'll have to get a photo in a bit.

The picture you quoted is actually on the NW corner of the house.  I planted two trunking Chinensis in April 2018, and bought four identical 3g pots of Chinensis from a local nursery.  I planted those underneath the bigger, flanking on each side as a sort of wide-spaced triple with maybe 3-5' spacing between each planting.  The idea was that the bigger ones would get a couple of feet of trunk before the smaller ones got very big.  That way I'd have a fairly decent visual block for the whole area for 10+ years.  So far it's working out okay, as you can see from the below pictures. 

The first is the SW corner of the house, with the pathway and the bamboo just on the right side.  I circled the two smaller Chinensis for reference.  This section ended up heavily shaded by the house in the AM and the Queens in the afternoon, and the earlier Viburnum hedge meant 100% shade in the winter.  So the big Chinese is fairly stretched out and a bit sunburnt.  Both smaller ones are growing slowly but at about the same rate.  In maybe 2 years they'll get to trunking diameter...maybe.  Growing up *maybe* faster or slower than them is a Sabal Causiarum circled in orange on the left.

This is the NW corner of the house, it's a photo from the other side of the one you quoted.  The big Chinensis here is more compact because it's been in mostly full sun.  For some unknown reason the left side small Chinensis is growing like mad, at least twice as fast as the others.  It has the same water and fertilizer and sun exposure, so I really don't know why.  Those are circled in red.  In the front bottom in orange is a Dypsis Arenarum (tall/thin) and the bottom right circled in yellow is a pair of Archontophoenix Tuckeri (also tall/thin).  Circled in blue is the Chambeyronia triple that's now a double.  I whacked the smaller one when I was transplanting it, and a storm came through and finished the job and took off the entire top.  Circled in pink on the right is another Sabal Causiarum.  So yes, I try to put tall/skinny stuff near spreading/short palms.  I've done it a lot with some areas, but unfortunately there aren't a ton of tall/skinny/25F frost hardy palms to choose from.  And (if you haven't noticed) I've probably just maybe a wee bit overplanted some areas. 

Regarding the Rhapis, it took the clusters about 3 years after planting to grow to 3-5' tall and start sending out rhizomes.  They aren't particularly fast growing in height, but do fill in reasonably quick.  If you planted a couple of pots 3' tall with a couple of culms each, I'd guess 3-4 years to get to 8' tall and start filling in?  If you want something faster, Caryota Mitis will do that quick and dense.  It's also more like a clumping bamboo in that it grows in a slowly expanding circle instead of like a running bamboo with rhizomes.  But it's not hardy below 27-28F.  Mine burnt almost to the ground at 26F with frost and I had to chop off most of the trunks...but it was back with a vengeance 6 months later.

[kinzyjr]

@Merlyn Finishing summer strong.  Almost time for the Fall Palm Crossfit Challenge

[Merlyn]

@kinzyjr I'm not sure exactly what WOD this is, but I'm sure there were some Farmer's Carries and lunges in there.  I finally got back to removing the Bambusa Tuldoides Not-So-Swollen-Internode stumps in the SE corner.  Here's before:

And I cut down and sliced out 10 Viburnum shrubberies on the fenceline at the same time:

And behind the Dendrocalamus Maroochy and Latiflorus there were two dead Viburnum and a couple struggling to survive:

[Merlyn]

And in the newly opened space I transplanted a Bambusa Eutuldoides "Basistriata" or "Ox-eyed" bamboo.  I had planted this a couple of months ago on the East hedgeline, and it really wasn't a good spot for a bamboo with a "prodigious annual growth of culms."  This spot now has a good 10' diameter for growth, so hopefully it'll be a good long-term fit:

Two weeks ago I made a snap decision and built a second layer of noise/sight block inside the SW corner bamboo.  I transplanted 7 big clusters of Arenga Engleri into a line.  These three are just inside the Textilis "RG Dwarf" on the left, and "Doli Silverstripe" on the right:

And just to the North side of that (to the right) are two more clusters:

Just to the left (South) side of those pictures are a couple of "Hope" Philodendrons and then two more clusters of Engleri:

[Merlyn]

During the week I ripped out the last cluster of Rhapis Excelsa.  I had planted it in October 2020 from a 15 gallon pot, just around the corner from the Engleri to the right of this photo from last week:

It had grown into a 6 foot tall mess of culms with rhizomes 4-6 feet out in all directions, but it's all cleaned out now!

And today I spent on my FAVORITE JOB OF ALL TIME!  That would be weeding.  Ok, so it is not my favorite job.  It took 3.5 hours to weed out this center rear agave bed:

[kinzyjr]

2 hours ago, Merlyn said:

And today I spent on my FAVORITE JOB OF ALL TIME!  That would be weeding.

I'm on day 2 of removing my "hardy native perennials", with 5 total wheel barrel loads of weeds moved out of two beds.  Only 15 more garden beds to go.

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

I'm on day 2 of removing my "hardy native perennials", with 5 total wheel barrel loads of weeds moved out of two beds.  Only 15 more garden beds to go.

God….  I’m so behind on this.   They never stop.  Just different types, different times of the year.  Love that fence by the way!  

[Merlyn]

@kinzyjr and @Looking Glass yes, I am an expert cultivator of a wide variety of native and imported hardy annuals and perennials.    This bed was only 3 trash bags full, but it was extra stabby due to the cacti and agaves.  The biggest problem that took so long was this new weed that grows a giant carrot-like root.  If I don't get the entire root it just grows right back.  It first popped up last fall, and I made the horrible mistake of not ruthlessly killing it immediately.  Now I am fighting it all over...

[palmfriend]

Merlyn,

Thanks for the update!

I am going to start my weeding AND EDITING soon, when temperatures have dropped a bit more. I had to realize that 

I have a death zone in my garden... It is facing a farm with lifestock (a third mile away) which is a breeding ground for

the local rhinoceros beetle. Two maturing Washingtonias are already eaten down, now - and this still makes me speechless - 

a usually completely bullet proof (against typhoons and bug attacks) Livistona chinensis is on its way down, too...

I got to rethink (and redesign) the hole spot in the next future.

However, please keep going with your updates and sharing of ideas, I always enjoy them to check out -

Lars

 

[Merlyn]

I finally got around to identifying the new invasive weed...er...hardy imported perennial.  It is Boerhavia Diffusa, aka Punarnava, red spiderling, spreading hogweed, or tarvine.  It looks a bit like a purslane or spurge, but has big spreading arms with burr-like seeds that stick to socks, arm and leg hair, etc.  And one plant below has an 8" long carrot-like tuber root with seed arms spreading out 2-3 feet in all directions.  I dug out all the ones I could spot Sunday and at lunch today, but there are a few popping up in driveway cracks that I'm going to have to kill with chemicals.  If you see this weed, kill it as quickly and ruthlessly as possible.  Otherwise it'll Diffusa itself all over your property:

[Merlyn]

@palmfriend sorry to hear about the weevils!  I have a couple of weevil-susceptible palms here, including a couple of Sabal Causiarum, three Bismarck, and a Canariensis.  I killed four Palmetto Weevils hunting around for a nest in some chunks-o-trunk from Sylvestris and Queens that I cut down.  I'm keeping an eye out for more, or for any sign that they are actually nesting.

In the front yard I dug out a cluster of Dwarf Namwah bananas.  They had continual crown rot problems in that spot, I think they weren't getting enough sun.  So I replaced it with a Philodendron "Evansii" from the backyard.  It was in a bad spot next to an Encephalartos Hildebrandtii and was just going to get lost in the jungle.  The bamboo in the upper left is the Bambusa "Nana" aka x Thrysocalamus Liang:

And I figuratively dodged a bullet by taking down those queen palms.  One of them was probably 1/4 eaten away by termites about a foot above ground level! 

[D. Morrowii]

That palm trunk looks like it was a few months and a windstorm away from falling on something. Good save!

[kinzyjr]

Agree with @D. Morrowii.  You were one advective freeze or one strong thunderstorm from growing a queen palm indoors without a pot.

[Merlyn]

@kinzyjr hah no kidding...I'd prefer not to grow a 20' tall queen palm indoors without a pot!  @D. Morrowii it looks like Milton is heading this way!  I'll have to do a bit of hurricane pruning on a few Alfredii tomorrow.  Three of them have full crowns out horizontal, and I'd rather not have to try and prop them back up on Thursday while the power is out...

Speaking of propping things up, I need to stake these two Butia.  These were part of the earlier triple Butia attempt, which I screwed up by failing to remove the nylon support rope that eventually strangled one of them.  I finally decided that a double tilted off to the side was just going to be weird, so I moved them to the open spot where I trashed the Lady Palms last weekend.  It's now a widely spaced Butia triple with one that I planted here in late 2020:

I had a Jubaea x Butia that I bought from Patrick Schaefer back in 2019.  I tortured it in a pot for 3 years and it just struggled to do anything.  I planted it in November 2022 in the front yard and then promptly planted a bunch of other stuff in front of it and it became invisible.  So I moved it to the newly open spot and hopefully it'll grow in quickly!

The cycads in the foreground are (L to R) Encephalartos Aemulans x Lehmannii, Ferox, and Chimanimaniensis.  In the background are a variety of hardy native and imported perennials. 

[Merlyn]

And to prove that nothing is easy when owning a house, I discovered a giant wet spot in the Northeast side of the yard.  I had previously repaired some old sprinkler pipe in the area.  I guessed it might have been a repair failure.  Nope.  It was an old sprinkler valve that I didn't even know existed.  The inlet had cracked (circled in the center) and become an underground gusher:

Fortunately I had the right size cap in my box of random plumbing stuff...and they left enough pipe on the elbow for me to cut it off and easily cap it.  Hopefully this explains why I've heard the well running at weird times when we haven't been using water.

And in the drizzle today I did some "hurricane cutting" on the big Alfredii.  Here's the backyard one before:

And here it is after I removed the lower fronds:

[Merlyn]

In preparation for hurricane Milton I did a bunch more cleanup.  On the SE side of the house I had a Bambusa "Malaysian Black."  In Helene a couple of culms bent over and got stuck under the eaves...and knocked off a bunch of soffit.  Clearly it was a dumb idea to plant a 20-25 foot tall bamboo within 20-25 feet of the house.  So I chopped this one down to ~5 feet tall and will move it elsewhere.

And while pruning off the threatening fronds on the last 2 SW side Queens, I realized I was planning on chopping these down anyway.  So I just beheaded one of them to avoid any roof risk.  If the track heads a bit further North then I might lop off another frond or two from the Alfredii:

I'll have to move my nursery area around the corner into a slightly more shaded area.  The two Queens were the ones providing afternoon shade to the spot, and the Bottles aren't quite big enough (or frost hardy enough) to do the job.  I might shift the nursery to the front yard under the big Bismarck.  That would let me re-grade this area to slope away from the porch and actually *plant* stuff outside the window.

[Merlyn]

No significant damage here from hurricane Milton.  We lost power from about 10:30PM and it came back on around 6PM the next day.  According to some maps we saw peak gusts around 80mph on the back side after the eye was leaving Melbourne, and roughly 10 inches of rain. 

• My Alfredii were fine with the wind after my "hurricane cut" and only moderate winds. 
• One big 15' tall branch of Ficus Auriculata fall over on some other stuff, but only did minor damage. 
• One trunk of Caryota Mitis fell and just missed three cycads.
• My transplanted Jubaea x Butia fell over and had to be replanted and staked. 
• My Elaeis Guineensis "Idolatrica" aka "Whole Leaf" form got a 45 degree angle tilt and I staked it back up.  See photo below.
• A cactus fell over in my agave bed.
• A bunch of new bamboo shoots were broken off.
• The "Tiger Grass" was shredded.

I'm glad I did some pre-hurricane cuts.  Obviously there's no way to know how much it helped.

My neighbors got ridiculously lucky again.  About 5 or 6 years ago one of their 80' tall water oaks fell.  I watched it from my dining room sway back and forth.  When it snapped it was falling directly towards their house when it got hit by a HUGE gust of wind...and redirected it onto the road.  This one was about as big and also fell directly away from their house and into the road:

The Elaeis seemed pretty sturdy, I think it just had a lot of rain and the big solid leaves made a really good sail:

I finished chopping down the last two Queens in my yard:

And broke another blade on the last cut:

[Merlyn]

"Tiger Grass" aka Thysanolaena Maxima is definitely NOT hurricane hardy.  But it didn't seem to damage anything nearby, so I think the winds just ripped the big leaves and skinny culms to pieces.  The original shape and size of the cluster is sketched in red:

I was planning on moving it anyway, because it's crowding the 3-4' tall Alfredii triple just below it.  I just haven't figured out a suitable spot yet...

Underneath the Ficus Auriculata branch is a pair of Rev x Debaoensis, a Rev x Diannanensis, and a Pseudophoenix Sargentii v. Navassana...all surprisingly undamaged except for a few tattered leaves:

And my unhappy cactus tree.  Clearly a couple of PVC pipes were not enough to keep this one upright!

[Merlyn]

I did a whole bunch of cleanup today, and finished piling up all the debris for pickup.  The cactus above was so top-heavy that I had to chop off most of it, but it'll grow back just fine.  This time I drove 3x 4' stainless pipes into the ground and tied it tight.  One big job today was removing the Bambusa "New Guinea Black" from the SE house corner.  In the post on 10/16/24 I called it "Malaysian Black," but the Gigantochloa "Malaysian Black" is up in the NE corner of the yard.  The specs on Tropical Bamboo's website are 20' tall and 1" culms, but it was more like 2" culms.  I was going to move it to the SE hedgeline, but it's a somewhat "open" clumper and I decided to just trash it instead. 

After slicing it up with the reciprocating saw, it took about 30 minutes to dig out an entire 7g pot full of rhizome chunks:

And in its place I transplanted a big clump of Rhapis Humilis I got from @palmsOrl a few years ago.  This is a full sun spot, so we'll see how it likes blazing FL sun...

[Merlyn]

So far so good on the Rhapis Humilis cluster, hopefully it'll acclimate to the sun by the time it gets brutal in May!  Last weekend I started on a badly overplanted area.  In this little area I packed in (on the lower half of the photo) an Encephalartos Ferox peeking in from the left, a Syagrus Ruschiana (lower center solid leaf), Encephalartos Sclavoi and Dioon Edule cluster.  And then in the middle the broad dark green Cycas is Guizhouensis.  Those are all staying. 

But the big Encephalartos Gratus x Whitelockii took a trip to the front yard:

In the SE corner transplanted a Cycas Revoluta x Diannanensis that I got from @Scott W about 3 years ago.  I put down a layer of pine mulch and then topped it with cypress.  Amazingly enough the Butia I transplanted on 10/5 stayed upright in the hurricane and seem to be ok...so far!

[Merlyn]

In the SW corner I transplanted a pair of Cycas Revoluta x Multifrondis (also from @Scott W), and finally just stuck the Butia x Parajubaea Sunkha into the ground...with the tiny semi-pinnate unhappy leaf in the bottom right.  I had planted the BxPJS in the front yard 2 summers ago and it hated the sun, so I repotted it...and it hated that too.  Since the BxJ and JxB did about 1000% better in the ground than in pots, I just picked a spot with some PM shade and we'll see what happens:

The other area I heavily modified was in the NW corner of the house.  I had planted three Beccariophoenix Alfredii about 9-10' from the corner.  This is dumb in a hurricane zone.  The fronds are just waaaaaaaaay too long to be safe close to the house.  Clearly I have been neglecting my weeding duties in this area:

And I moved them to about 15-18' feet from the house.  This photo is from the opposite side of the above photo.  In their original spots are now a small Encephalartos Gratus (bottom center 3 leafer), a Ptychococcus Lepidotus (bottom right) and a Dypsis/Chrysalidocarpus Basilongus (droopy fronds to the right of the paper).  The big cycad on the right is a Cycas Taitungensis x Debaoensis that used to be in the backyard, but was just waaaay too big for the spot:

And then a photo back from the other side...I planted an Encephalartos Whitelockii on the right, transplanted a Cycas Revoluta x Diannanensis (left with the PVC stake), and transplanted a Cycas Diannensis (behind it).  These should never be a house hazard...

[D. Morrowii]

Hmm you moved the allfrediis from 9-10 to 15-18? Oh boy I’m probably in trouble at 6 feet…🙄 What is the thinking there regarding hurricanes? Just fronds whipping against the eaves widows etc? 

[Merlyn]

21 minutes ago, D. Morrowii said:

Hmm you moved the allfrediis from 9-10 to 15-18? Oh boy I’m probably in trouble at 6 feet…🙄 What is the thinking there regarding hurricanes? Just fronds whipping against the eaves widows etc? 

Yes, I had planted one 9 feet from the E side of the house in 2018.  The fronds on a mature Alfredii are easily 15 feet long, maybe even 20 feet.  The rachis on the fronds are pretty stout, so whatever they hit could easily be ripped up.  The one 9 feet from the house had fronds overhanging part of the garage roof, easily in range of the siding, and of course the eaves/soffit/fascia.  I "aggressively pruned" it before the hurricane, and will have to keep doing it to avoid house damage in future storms.  I will try to remember to get a photo tomorrow.  MB Palms had some next to their metal building, and pruned them super aggressively to only 4 or 5 vertical fronds.

Since these other ones were about 3 feet tall and not fully rooted in, I decided to avoid future problems.  At 15 plus feet from the house, I'll have to chop the ends off of some fronds in the future.  But I will not need to hack most of the fronds off before each storm.  At 6 feet from the house and 15-20 foot fronds...that could be an issue.

[TropicsEnjoyer]

16 hours ago, Merlyn said:

So far so good on the Rhapis Humilis cluster, hopefully it'll acclimate to the sun by the time it gets brutal in May!  Last weekend I started on a badly overplanted area.  In this little area I packed in (on the lower half of the photo) an Encephalartos Ferox peeking in from the left, a Syagrus Ruschiana (lower center solid leaf), Encephalartos Sclavoi and Dioon Edule cluster.  And then in the middle the broad dark green Cycas is Guizhouensis.  Those are all staying. 

But the big Encephalartos Gratus x Whitelockii took a trip to the front yard:

In the SE corner transplanted a Cycas Revoluta x Diannanensis that I got from @Scott W about 3 years ago.  I put down a layer of pine mulch and then topped it with cypress.  Amazingly enough the Butia I transplanted on 10/5 stayed upright in the hurricane and seem to be ok...so far!

Where did you buy your rhapis and for how much ? They seem expensive for their small stature bc everywhere i’ve looked even small plants can be easily $70. Also your cycads impressive.

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

Where did you buy your rhapis and for how much ? They seem expensive for their small stature bc everywhere i’ve looked even small plants can be easily $70. Also your cycads impressive.

I bought two giant clumps of Rhapis Humilis from PT member @palmsOrl.  This is the only Rhapis I'll keep in the yard, just due to the uncontrollable rhizomes on Rhapis Excelsa.  Today I dug up the last two Excelsa clumps, a "Koban" that I got from Scott W, and a variegated one from ChuckG.  Those I've potted up and will keep as pot plants...but never to see the ground again!  As far as the other Excelsa, I bought 3 pots from ChuckG and got the other clusters by helping a neighbor dig out a big 10' x 30' area of them.

They are super expensive in pots, I never really understood why.  It's probably because they are generally slow growing until they are 5' tall established palms in the ground.  And I've heard that they tend to die if you separate clumps, though that hasn't been true in my limited experience.

[kinzyjr]

20 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

I bought two giant clumps of Rhapis Humilis from PT member @palmsOrl.  This is the only Rhapis I'll keep in the yard, just due to the uncontrollable rhizomes on Rhapis Excelsa.  Today I dug up the last two Excelsa clumps, a "Koban" that I got from Scott W, and a variegated one from ChuckG.  Those I've potted up and will keep as pot plants...but never to see the ground again!  As far as the other Excelsa, I bought 3 pots from ChuckG and got the other clusters by helping a neighbor dig out a big 10' x 30' area of them.

They are super expensive in pots, I never really understood why.  It's probably because they are generally slow growing until they are 5' tall established palms in the ground.  And I've heard that they tend to die if you separate clumps, though that hasn't been true in my limited experience.

Great minds think alike, but so do crazy people.  I just removed a 2ft. x 4ft. stack of runners from my Rhapis excelsa.

[TropicsEnjoyer]

7 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I bought two giant clumps of Rhapis Humilis from PT member @palmsOrl.  This is the only Rhapis I'll keep in the yard, just due to the uncontrollable rhizomes on Rhapis Excelsa.  Today I dug up the last two Excelsa clumps, a "Koban" that I got from Scott W, and a variegated one from ChuckG.  Those I've potted up and will keep as pot plants...but never to see the ground again!  As far as the other Excelsa, I bought 3 pots from ChuckG and got the other clusters by helping a neighbor dig out a big 10' x 30' area of them.

They are super expensive in pots, I never really understood why.  It's probably because they are generally slow growing until they are 5' tall established palms in the ground.  And I've heard that they tend to die if you separate clumps, though that hasn't been true in my limited experience.

I see, one persons trash became your treasure (and eventually your trash too haha). Too bad in my area people are not particularly plant crazy. I would love to find free palms on the curb 😂. Best recovery i’ve gotten so far is a hibiscus. Anyway, as you said I dont see the justice in the high price as they are like weeds when mature. Maybe ill order some online eventually.

[Merlyn]

@D. Morrowii I remembered to take a couple of photos of the Alfredii today.  Looking down the pathway you can see the tallest fronds are about the same as the ~25' tall peak of the house:

And it only takes a small lean angle for that 20ish foot long frond to hit the house and rip up the soffit, as you can see it did in the last storm.  The Caryota Mitis in the background couldn't quite reach the house.  But now I have to go fix it.  On the left you can see the stubs of fronds that I cut off.  They would have absolutely demolished the new shingles on the section of garage roof just behind me:

I measured the distance and it's 114 inches = 9.5 feet from the center to the wall.  IMO that's 5 or more feet too close.  It developed a lean in a storm a few years ago.  You can see all the fronds I've had to over-prune in order to keep them from damaging the house:

[D. Morrowii]

@Merlyn Thanks! I appreciate the info. Still not sure what I’ll do though. My lot is pretty small so I can’t really shift it over. I’d have to delete or completely relocate it. 

[Merlyn]

This week marks the end of an error...era?  Nope, definitely error.  I had the last water oak in the yard cut down on Tuesday and stump ground on Wednesday.  I should have had the guy do it ~3 years ago while he was taking down the other big ones in the front yard, it would have been a lot cheaper and saved me some stress in the hurricanes!  I dug out and repotted the Hawaiian Ti plants here and trashed the heliconias and Bordelon bananas:

And moved ~50 edgers and dug out about 15 wheelbarrows full of dirt so they could stump grind it deep:

And the last big cut before taking the main trunk down.  This one was about 70 feet tall:

And the last remaining stump!  The only thing they damaged was the left hand side of the below Cycas Edentata/Litoralis on the upper side of the photo. 

[Merlyn]

Today I started on the cleanup.  Initially I was going to just move a few of the landscape blocks out near the front:

And that lasted about 15 minutes before I decided I really wanted more space on the whole West side bed.  I added about 4-5 feet in width towards the backyard and straightened the curves a little bit:

And then spent 4 or 5 hours putting down a layer of dirt followed by a thick layer of stump grindings on the whole area.  I still have a bit more digging in the center of the stump to see if there are any large roots the grinder missed.  But it's a good start, hopefully only a couple of more hours to finish cleaning it up and have it ready to plant!

[TropicsEnjoyer]

3 hours ago, Merlyn said:

trashed the heliconias and Bordelon bananas

why 😟?

also rip the trees, they served their purpose. did you keep any of the wood?

[Merlyn]

10 minutes ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

why 😟?

also rip the trees, they served their purpose. did you keep any of the wood?

On the heliconias, they are cheap and quick growing, and easy to buy replacements if I decide to replant a new bed sometime.  They are hyperinvasive, and a 2-high bed of those big wall blocks was just enough to keep them inline for a couple of years.  I will probably find a place for a red-orange gyro next year.  

The Bordelon bananas were only one small clump.  I have another on the other end of the driveway.  I'll probably plant a couple in the new bed area somewhere.

The water oaks I mistook for red or white or live oaks.  If I had known they grow to 80 feet tall and then abruptly died at ~40 years old I wouldn't have bought the property...or would have cut them all down 20 years ago.  I kept logs years ago and regretted it, so no need for extra lumber.

[flplantguy]

@TropicsEnjoyerWater and laurel oaks are not great wood for much other than burning in a fireplace, and there are very few mills here for them, so they usualy get burned or made into wood chips for mulch. They are better in mass groups and grow that way in nature, and should not be used near homes and given space to spread and get large.  In that situation they break easily; i have one on the edge of the forest i own, and it breaks some with every front or storm as well as being fast growing (its cousins in the group do not have breakage).  Most fast growing trees are brittle and predisposed to issues here, and once you add in hurricanes and a home its a big risk.  While unfortunate it is understandable.  My job is to review these trees for my municipality when permits are applied for, and we do not recommend them as replacements or new plantings either.  Live oak is a different story, as long as they are cared for, and my sucession plan for my forest includes them instead.  People confuse them frequently and find out the hard way all to often here, as @Merlyn can probably attest to.  Thats another reason we do not allow them in new developments- i don't like the idea of costing the future owners a lot of money on a removal in 40 years when a better tree is cherished instead, and the powers that be agreed thankfully.  Im going to carefully use mine as frost protection, but i have the space to do that when many do not.  You dont have any more left to deal with do you?

[Looking Glass]

F’n water oaks….   Love the borders.  

[Merlyn]

@flplantguy good job in convincing the "upper management" to block new water oak plantings!  They are a garbage tree with weak root systems and routinely flop over here in hurricanes.  In just my small neighborhood three of them fell in the max ~80mph gusts of Milton.  In the neighborhood next to mine a ~70 footer fell and crushed half of a house.

Other than the hurricane weakness, the biggest routine danger is that they shed branches on a weekly basis.  And not just small twigs either.  A couple of years ago I went out to go to work in the morning and found a 20' long 6" diameter branch had fallen overnight and smashed the hood of my wife's Miata.  It had full leaves and everything, totally alive...just snapped right off at a "Y" for no apparent reason.  Every car I've owned here has been hit at some point, and I've had two branches fall and skewer a hole in the roof.  If anyone reading this has a water oak on their lot, my advice is, "Cut it down now." 

That water oak was the last one on my property, but there are two in my neighbor's lot within falling range of my house.  He seems to love them, and expressed confusion about some of them randomly dying.  He seemed surprised when I told him that they've reached the end of their ~40ish year lifespan.  These two are tall enough and close enough to severely damage my house when (not if) they fall: