Remarkable palms of Tampa Bay

[RedRabbit]

On 2/2/2022 at 10:41 AM, JJPalmer said:

A new 31 story high-rise by the Straz center submitted landscaping documents and incorporated Coconuts in the landscape design. Bold but would be an interesting experiment. 

 

Hopefully they actually do it. I don’t think they’ll be a permanent fixture, but it will be fun to see how they do.

4 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Here are a few from Brandon, FL.

Thrinax radiata(?) Leucothrinax morrissii(?) - These have been there since at least 2008 and are actively setting seed.

Wodyetia bifurcata - Pre-2008 as well.  There used to be one in front of the sign, but it perished in one of the freezes.

Roystonea regia - These were planted in late 2018 and took a pretty good dent this winter.

Nice finds, how far inland are these?

[kinzyjr]

59 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Nice finds, how far inland are these?

They are all east of I-75 and on the north side of FL-60.  1 is the location of what I thought might be Thrinax radiata, 2 is the location of the Foxtails, and 3 is the location of the Royals.

[kinzyjr]

A couple of larger Hyophorbe verschaffeltii (Spindle Palm) near Grandview at Eaglebrook.  For Weather Underground fans, there used to be a weather station at the golf course that recorded some milder numbers during our cold snaps in January 2008 and January 2010.  Keep in mind the top of the wall is 8 feet above the ground and the photos were shot from another foot or so lower.

[kinzyjr]

A very thick and healthy Roystonea regia at Cleveland Heights Golf Course in Lakeland, FL:

[kinzyjr]

A few from some of the higher elevations in town:

A coconut palm at ~260ft. above sea level.  When it starts to trunk it will probably claim the title of highest trunking coconut in FL.

A jackfruit tree at ~240ft. above sea level.

An Archontophoenix (probably cunninghaniana) at ~260ft. above sea level.

[chinandega81]

On 4/27/2022 at 8:28 PM, kinzyjr said:

A very thick and healthy Roystonea regia at Cleveland Heights Golf Course in Lakeland, FL:

How recent is this transplant? I wish they were more widely planted in Central Florida.

[kinzyjr]

3 minutes ago, chinandega81 said:

How recent is this transplant? I wish they were more widely planted in Central Florida.

This palm replaced a queen palm in the same location sometime between June 2016 - February 2017.  We have much taller ones here that are from the late 1990s and early 2000s.  Royals are being used for the new apartment complexes that are being built.  I've seen them being used in medians and as focal points in roundabouts as well.  This picture doesn't really do this one justice.

[chinandega81]

1 minute ago, kinzyjr said:

This palm replaced a queen palm in the same location sometime between June 2016 - February 2017.  We have much taller ones here that are from the late 1990s and early 2000s.  Royals are being used for the new apartment complexes that are being built.  I've seen them being used in medians and as focal points in roundabouts as well.  This picture doesn't really do this one justice.

I think that IS a beautiful one in the pic, I love it. Are the local governments planting Royals in medians and right of ways, or do you mean only in private "communities"? I think they would do well in urban parks and landscapes and streetscapes in Lakeland. Especially when planted mature and irrigated. I know they take damage in the cooler spots of Central Florida, but it seems like in the warm spots they are no brainers. But even if they are only in private developments, hopefully that will encourage others to plant them as well. Do you see them in people's yards there?

[kinzyjr]

1 minute ago, chinandega81 said:

I think that IS a beautiful one in the pic, I love it. Are the local governments planting Royals in medians and right of ways, or do you mean only in private "communities"? I think they would do well in urban parks and landscapes and streetscapes in Lakeland. Especially when planted mature and irrigated. I know they take damage in the cooler spots of Central Florida, but it seems like in the warm spots they are no brainers. But even if they are only in private developments, hopefully that will encourage others to plant them as well. Do you see them in people's yards there?

The city and at least one local school have their share.  There are plenty on private property in my neck of the woods, especially as you get up higher in elevation.  In addition to the one at the city-run golf course above, there are municipal plantings at Lake Wire, Tigertown, and Common Ground. 

There is a school called Harrison School of the Arts that shares a campus with Lakeland High School.  They have a lot of Royal palms in their parking lot that were planted right before the freeze in Jan. 2010.  They survived and most are still there today. 

Private residences - there are large ones all over.  There are a few more on this thread.  I have three of them in my yard, but they are young.  I've seen a few more houses ordering in large ones that already have some size to them.  They're really a great replacement for all of the Queens, Washies, and Phoenix that are dying from Lethal Bronzing in the area.

[RedRabbit]

21 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

A few from some of the higher elevations in town:

A coconut palm at ~260ft. above sea level.  When it starts to trunk it will probably claim the title of highest trunking coconut in FL.

A jackfruit tree at ~240ft. above sea level.

An Archontophoenix (probably cunninghaniana) at ~260ft. above sea level.

When you visit areas with higher elevations like this, do you notice a difference depending on what part of the hill you’re on directionally?
 

I would think the SSW side would be best there since it would shield some of wind during advective events. 

[kinzyjr]

10 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

When you visit areas with higher elevations like this, do you notice a difference depending on what part of the hill you’re on directionally?
I would think the SSW side would be best there since it would shield some of wind during advective events. 

That's a good question that is difficult to answer concretely. 

Anecdotally, the largest coconuts in the "highlands" tend to be on the east side of a slope and somewhere between 1/4th and 3/4th of the way up a hillside.  From the January 2022 Florida Freeze Report thread, the trunking coconuts on my 8th post are both on the east side of the high point of a hill.  In my own case, I'm on the east side of a hill and up roughly 30% of the way from the base.  It isn't perfect, but it does help drop the wind speed a bit.

On the Make Your Own Zone Map! thread, I shared a pair of images that demonstrated the effect topography has in our area.  The topographical map below focuses on the Lakeland Highlands where the photos of the trunking coconuts from the January Freeze report were taken.  The coconut pair closest to 540A didn't take any damage this year.: 

[Frond-friend42]

On 4/12/2022 at 3:18 PM, kinzyjr said:

Here are a few from Brandon, FL.

Thrinax radiata(?) Leucothrinax morrissii(?) - These have been there since at least 2008 and are actively setting seed.

Wodyetia bifurcata - Pre-2008 as well.  There used to be one in front of the sign, but it perished in one of the freezes.

Roystonea regia - These were planted in late 2018 and took a pretty good dent this winter.

Could the first one be colpothrinax aphanopetala?

[kinzyjr]

18 hours ago, Frond-friend42 said:

Could the first one be colpothrinax aphanopetala?

I had to look into it when you mentioned it.  The thing that pulls me away from that species is that the palm in the first photo had white fruit.  This picture from Palmpedia shows the fruit of Colpothrinax aphanopeltala as turning green to red:

[RedRabbit]

On 5/2/2022 at 10:10 PM, kinzyjr said:

That's a good question that is difficult to answer concretely. 

Anecdotally, the largest coconuts in the "highlands" tend to be on the east side of a slope and somewhere between 1/4th and 3/4th of the way up a hillside.  From the January 2022 Florida Freeze Report thread, the trunking coconuts on my 8th post are both on the east side of the high point of a hill.  In my own case, I'm on the east side of a hill and up roughly 30% of the way from the base.  It isn't perfect, but it does help drop the wind speed a bit.

On the Make Your Own Zone Map! thread, I shared a pair of images that demonstrated the effect topography has in our area.  The topographical map below focuses on the Lakeland Highlands where the photos of the trunking coconuts from the January Freeze report were taken.  The coconut pair closest to 540A didn't take any damage this year.: 

Thanks, it’s interesting the largest coconuts are on the east side. I’m not sure whether there’s something to that or coincidence. The wind would be from the NNE in an advective cold so it seems like the east side wouldn’t be ideal, but the elevation alone would save the area from radiational cooling so that’s enough for most nights. Lakeland must have the most complicated microclimate in the state given there’s lakes, elevation, and urban heat all coming into play. 

[Looking Glass]

On 4/12/2022 at 5:18 PM, kinzyjr said:

Here are a few from Brandon, FL.

Thrinax radiata(?) Leucothrinax morrissii(?) - These have been there since at least 2008 and are actively setting seed.

 

 

 

 

Wow, that one view from 2008 with no trunk, til now... 14 years later.   Puts their growth rate in perspective.   I just got some planting ideas from that.   

Thrinax Radiata fo' sho'.   They get limey and very dense in full fun like that.  With more shade they are darker green with a more open canopy.  

L. morrissii is more "spikey" and less dense with white undersides even in full sun.

Both have white seeds.  

Here they are side by side along the road here....  LM up front, TR next in line.    

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Looking Glass

[SubTropicRay]

After a bad freeze, the Leucothrinax will be the one that's alive and mostly green.

[kinzyjr]

@chinandega81 Here is a Roystonea regia yard planting that I haven't shared yet.  This particular Roystonea now holds the crown of highest Royal in Florida at 260ft above sea level.  It has also been around for more than 15 years.  The homeowner is braver than I would be with it so close to the driveway. 

[chinandega81]

11 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@chinandega81 Here is a Roystonea regia yard planting that I haven't shared yet.  This particular Roystonea now holds the crown of highest Royal in Florida at 260ft above sea level.  It has also been around for more than 15 years.  The homeowner is braver than I would be with it so close to the driveway. 

That is beutiful, thanks for the share. I just can't see how that doesn't inspire all the neighbors to plant their own. I guess they only do well in microclimates or at high elevation there so there is too much variability to make planting them fool proof there. I would love to see the entire I-4 corridor flooded with Royals. I suppose that's just wishful thinking though!

[kinzyjr]

8 minutes ago, chinandega81 said:

That is beutiful, thanks for the share. I just can't see how that doesn't inspire all the neighbors to plant their own. I guess they only do well in microclimates or at high elevation there so there is too much variability to make planting them fool proof there. I would love to see the entire I-4 corridor flooded with Royals. I suppose that's just wishful thinking though!

This map is a pretty good indicator of where you'll see the most Royals and other tropicals here in my neck of the woods.  The red and orange areas you'll see them a lot.  Lake Wales, Bartow and Winter Haven have some nice Royals.  It wouldn't be that far-fetched to see them replace the non-native Phoenix sp., Washingtonias and Queens that are currently being devastated by Lethal Bronzing.  There are some successfully growing in the Jacksonville area.

[RedRabbit]

@JJPalmer

Got some bad news… one of the coconuts at Main and Patricia in Dunedin was removed. 

[kinzyjr]

2 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

@JJPalmer

Got some bad news… one of the coconuts at Main and Patricia in Dunedin was removed. 

The only way to counter bad news is with good news.  This particular palm is full of coconuts in Polk:

[RedRabbit]

36 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

The only way to counter bad news is with good news.  This particular palm is full of coconuts in Polk:

Thanks @kinzyjr! I’m glad to see that one is doing so well, it’s getting big!

The ones in Dunedin were pretty far inland and I think they’ve been there 15+ years. Here’s a (bad) picture of the one that’s still there:

They’re surrounded by concrete so that’s probably why they’ve managed to do well there. Hopefully there’s no plans of removing the other palm.

[RedRabbit]

I found a pretty good coconut in Kenwood (St. Pete) over the weekend:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.7729183,-82.661173,3a,75y,23.45h,100.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHNilywH7q01MXWKCB3uyCw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The last streetview image is 3 years old and it probably has 5-7ft more of trunk now. It's been there since at least 2007.

This is the only coconut I'm aware of in Kenwood to survive the 2010 freezes. I've thought the area was 9b and the wunderground data has been unimpressive, but then you see something like this and wonder. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by RedRabbit

[JJPalmer]

Well - the owners of the car wash in Dunedin decided to remove 1 of the 2 trunking coconut palms on the property. Pretty disappointing. Hopefully the other stays. 

[RedRabbit]

I’m hoping to make my yard more remarkable — anyone still selling rareish palms here?

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, RedRabbit said:

I’m hoping to make my yard more remarkable — anyone still selling rareish palms here?

Were there any particular species you were targeting?

[RedRabbit]

30 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

Were there any particular species you were targeting?

A cunninghamiana, d leptochellos, b alfredii, maybe sabal mauritiformus… Heck, I’d even go for a spindle as the big box stores don’t seem to have them anymore.

Edited May 22, 2022 by RedRabbit

[kinzyjr]

5 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

A cunninghamiana, d leptochellos, b alfredii, maybe sabal mauritiformus… Heck, I’d even go for a spindle as the big box stores don’t seem to have them anymore.

I could get seeds for the Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, Dypsis leptocheilos, and Sabal mauritiformis depending on the time of year, but I am sure you want a viable plant at least in the 2G size.  Since Chris stopped selling recently, I'll probably stick with making runs to MB Palms over in south Orlando.  They have Beccariophoenix alfredii, and two varieties of Archontophoenix cunninghamiana.  It's best to call and set up an appointment.  https://www.plantant.com/nursery-availability/1005451/mb-palms

As far as Hyophorbe verschafeltii (Spindles) go, they are available at Lowe's over here for a price:

[RedRabbit]

2 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

I could get seeds for the Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, Dypsis leptocheilos, and Sabal mauritiformis depending on the time of year, but I am sure you want a viable plant at least in the 2G size.  Since Chris stopped selling recently, I'll probably stick with making runs to MB Palms over in south Orlando.  They have Beccariophoenix alfredii, and two varieties of Archontophoenix cunninghamiana.  It's best to call and set up an appointment.  https://www.plantant.com/nursery-availability/1005451/mb-palms

As far as Hyophorbe verschafeltii (Spindles) go, they are available at Lowe's over here for a price:

Thanks, maybe I’ll have to make the trip to MB one day. No spindles at my nearest 2 Lowe’s, but I’ll check again in case they get one in a new shipment. Though to my surprise one of them actually had mules so they’ve stepped up their palm diversity lately.

[Zeeth]

I can give you a B. alfredii if you can get the pot back to me after you plant it (it's a long tree pot that I like to re-use). 

[RedRabbit]

On 5/23/2022 at 5:28 PM, Zeeth said:

I can give you a B. alfredii if you can get the pot back to me after you plant it (it's a long tree pot that I like to re-use). 

Thanks Zeeth, DMed!

[RedRabbit]

I spotted these coconuts in Tierra Verde today:

They seem to be some of the biggest in Pinellas County, roughly the same size as the ones in Kopsick. It’s hard to tell from the picture but I’m guessing they’re about 45’.

Edited May 31, 2022 by RedRabbit

[SubTropicRay]

I know that group of Cocos well and have been keeping an eye on them for years.  They were planted in the early-mid 90's and survived the last two bad freezes we've had (1996 and 2010).  It would take the next level of freeze to wipe them out.  Hopefully, we'll never see that again in our lifetime.

[RedRabbit]

6 hours ago, SubTropicRay said:

I know that group of Cocos well and have been keeping an eye on them for years.  They were planted in the early-mid 90's and survived the last two bad freezes we've had (1996 and 2010).  It would take the next level of freeze to wipe them out.  Hopefully, we'll never see that again in our lifetime.

Thanks for the background info Ray! 

I was keeping an eye out for any coconuts in St. Pete Beach or Tierra Verde that might have survived the 1980s freezes and nothing looked like it unfortunately. Given how good of microclimate exists there it seems like they’d have a fighting chance at least. Perhaps these will stand the test when the day comes.

[Alan_Tampa]

9 hours ago, SubTropicRay said:

we've had (1996 and 2010).  It would take the next level of freeze to wipe them out.  Hopefully, we'll never see that again in our lifetime.

Ray, dude.  We've talked about this. You are tempting the Fates. 

[kinzyjr]

Our newest office building is adorned with Archontophoenix sp.:

[Merlyn]

On 5/4/2022 at 7:49 AM, SubTropicRay said:

After a bad freeze, the Leucothrinax will be the one that's alive and mostly green.

Ain't that the truth!    I had a bad freeze at the end of January over here in the Orlando area.  The backyard saw 24-26F with frost: a 3' tall Thrinax Radiata was killed and a smaller Cryosophila Warscewiczii was mostly undamaged.  In the front yard it saw 27-28F: another 3' tall Thrinax Radiata was killed, a 2' tall Leucothrinax Morissii was mostly undamaged; a 2' tall Coccothrinax Argentata was killed; and a couple of taller 4-5' took about 50% burn (Zombia hybrid, Coccothrinax Argentea, and Coccothrinax Barbadensis/Dussiana).  I was pleasantly surprised by the Cryosophila and Leucothrinax.  They'd be a great choice in the warmer areas in Tampa.

[JASON M]

Mature cocos in tarpon springs, year of photo is unknown.. found on my Florida history group!

[RedRabbit]

1 hour ago, JASON M said:

Mature cocos in tarpon springs, year of photo is unknown.. found on my Florida history group!

There are a few about that size now. Their microclimate is a little underrated, I’ve found a lot of tropical stuff growing along the gulf and the Anclote river. 

[RedRabbit]

I came across a couple pretty good coconuts in Northdale today:

https://goo.gl/maps/opCL768nY2wCpvKq5

(Mobile link so I’m not sure if it will work.)
 

I’ve seen some similar sized ones on Bearss east of Dale Mabry recently too. Not particularly warm locations!

Edited June 27, 2022 by RedRabbit