Remarkable palms of Tampa Bay

[kinzyjr]

20 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

I came across a couple pretty good coconuts in Northdale today:

https://goo.gl/maps/opCL768nY2wCpvKq5

(Mobile link so I’m not sure if it will work.)
 

I’ve seen some similar sized ones on Bearss east of Dale Mabry recently too. Not particularly warm locations!

And they appear to be Golden Malayans as well!

[kinzyjr]

Lake Parker Majesties: Perhaps one of the nicest Majesty Palms in the area.  There are more in this neighborhood and they do well as it tends to stay damp due to elevation and proximity to Lake Parker.  Photo from Google - Feb 2021

Google Street View:https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0539169,-81.9142084,3a,75y,186.1h,88.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdLCbIqKdIyaDR_fvSFJa_Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Combee Coconuts - these had escaped my attention until recently, but they are setting fruit this year.  I'll have to get a more recent photo of these since I saw coconuts on them today.  By messing around with Google Street View, you can see these back to June 2016, which means they made it through the advective freeze in 2018.  Photo from Google - Feb 2021.

Google Street View: https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0530653,-81.9086282,3a,48.6y,314.1h,95.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAsP6m0kusiF014doFuh2eA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[RedRabbit]

I drove past a few pre-1980s royals on Mirror Lake in St. Petersburg today. Some had trunk damage, some didn’t. Pretty good for being about 8 blocks inland!

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by RedRabbit

[RedRabbit]

By the way, I also went out to Albert Whitted airport today and saw their weather station today. It’s at the very end of the runway on a mini-peninsula going out into the harbor. No wonder their numbers are always so warm in the winter. I bet USF across the street is a half zone colder.

Edited August 14, 2022 by RedRabbit

[cocoforcoconuts]

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.6936405,-82.7244411,3a,40.9y,267.06h,100.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sh7YCOr6-0r-zNLZ9dSWvbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

Anyone have an educated guess as to how old these cocos in Tierra Verde are? Could they be pre-90s?

 

 

[RedRabbit]

45 minutes ago, cocoforcoconuts said:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.6936405,-82.7244411,3a,40.9y,267.06h,100.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sh7YCOr6-0r-zNLZ9dSWvbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

Anyone have an educated guess as to how old these cocos in Tierra Verde are? Could they be pre-90s?

 

 

Good find, the one on the left might be late-1980s/early-1990s. The coconuts in Kopsick survived the 1989 freeze, which wasn’t that bad in the area, so other coconuts probably survived that freeze too. This area is at least as warm as Kopsick so it’s within the realm of possibility they’re pre-90s. 

That said, I’m pretty confident Pinellas County doesn’t have any coconuts that are pre-1980s. The combination of the 83, 85, then 89 freezes were too much apparently. If there is one though, it’s probably sheltered next to a condo in St. Pete Beach or Tierra Verde.

I’d venture to say there are probably under 20 pre-1980s coconuts still alive north of Charlotte County on the west coast. There are 2 on Venice Beach, 1 on Lido Key, then I think the rest are on Anna Maria Island and maybe a few in Bradenton. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by RedRabbit

[RedRabbit]

3 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Good find, the one on the left might be late-1980s/early-1990s. The coconuts in Kopsick survived the 1989 freeze, which wasn’t that bad in the area, so other coconuts probably survived that freeze too. This area is at least as warm as Kopsick so it’s within the realm of possibility they’re pre-90s. 

That said, I’m pretty confident Pinellas County doesn’t have any coconuts that are pre-1980s. The combination of the 83, 85, then 89 freezes were too much apparently. If there is one though, it’s probably sheltered next to a condo in St. Pete Beach or Tierra Verde.

I’d venture to say there are probably under 20 pre-1980s coconuts still alive north of Charlotte County on the west coast. There are 2 on Venice Beach, 1 on Lido Key, then I think the rest are on Anna Maria Island and maybe a few in Bradenton. 

So, after saying this I decided to see what I could find… These at the Bon-Aire Resort are pretty big! 

They’re next to a 2 story building so they appear to have about 40’ of trunk. I doubt they’re pre-1980s, but some of the biggest in Pinellas regardless.

Edited August 16, 2022 by RedRabbit

[RedRabbit]

13 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

So, after saying this I decided to see what I could find… These at the Bon-Aire Resort are pretty big! 

They’re next to a 2 story building so they appear to have about 40’ of trunk. I doubt they’re pre-1980s, but some of the biggest in Pinellas regardless.

@Palmaceae and @SubTropicRay, would either of you know the history of these by chance? 

 

[cocoforcoconuts]

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.7452721,-82.7351296,3a,75y,17.08h,105.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIlNrLLisk5Vb6GqJH93yuw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

These cocos in South Pasadena are another group I'd be curious to know more about. Even in 2008 they had pretty good height. And fwiw the house certainly looks like an older house so you know the property hasn't been redeveloped and wiped clean in a long while.

Side note, this street is one of my favorites in Pinellas county. Looks like a South Florida neighborhood with all the coconuts and other tropicals!

[Palmaceae]

1 hour ago, RedRabbit said:

@Palmaceae and @SubTropicRay, would either of you know the history of these by chance? 

 

I seem to remember seeing a Coconut palm that was shorter than the hotel in a courtyard in a resort on St Pete beach back in the '80s that survived those freezes.  This may be the one!

[RedRabbit]

9 hours ago, cocoforcoconuts said:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.7452721,-82.7351296,3a,75y,17.08h,105.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIlNrLLisk5Vb6GqJH93yuw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

These cocos in South Pasadena are another group I'd be curious to know more about. Even in 2008 they had pretty good height. And fwiw the house certainly looks like an older house so you know the property hasn't been redeveloped and wiped clean in a long while.

Side note, this street is one of my favorites in Pinellas county. Looks like a South Florida neighborhood with all the coconuts and other tropicals!

They look like they’re from the 1990s. I’ve seen a lot in the Sarasota area that look similar to these.

That is a very tropical looking street though!

7 hours ago, Palmaceae said:

I seem to remember seeing a Coconut palm that was shorter than the hotel in a courtyard in a resort on St Pete beach back in the '80s that survived those freezes.  This may be the one!

Wow, so one did survive in Pinellas after all! Thank you @Palmaceae! 

[RedRabbit]

More proof Lake Tarpon’s microclimate (west side) is legit Z10:

 

[ck_in_fla]

On 8/16/2022 at 1:14 PM, cocoforcoconuts said:

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.7452721,-82.7351296,3a,75y,17.08h,105.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIlNrLLisk5Vb6GqJH93yuw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

These cocos in South Pasadena are another group I'd be curious to know more about. Even in 2008 they had pretty good height. And fwiw the house certainly looks like an older house so you know the property hasn't been redeveloped and wiped clean in a long while.

Side note, this street is one of my favorites in Pinellas county. Looks like a South Florida neighborhood with all the coconuts and other tropicals!

Am I the only one who thinks the sad looking Queens should be removed from the landscape?  I hate to say it, but they are actually detracting from the overall landscape.

I'm just saying...

[kinzyjr]

59 minutes ago, ck_in_fla said:

Am I the only one who thinks the sad looking Queens should be removed from the landscape?  I hate to say it, but they are actually detracting from the overall landscape.

I'm just saying...

You have my support for replacing dead/dying/languishing queens with native Roystonea regia since the lethal bronzing and fusarium wilt outbreak hit us hard over here.  After seeing Royals survive 2010, there's just not a good reason not to replace an invasive with a native that looks better 90+% of the time.

[ck_in_fla]

9 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

You have my support for replacing dead/dying/languishing queens with native Roystonea regia since the lethal bronzing and fusarium wilt outbreak hit us hard over here.  After seeing Royals survive 2010, there's just not a good reason not to replace an invasive with a native that looks better 90+% of the time.

You said it much better than I did.  :-)

[cocoforcoconuts]

17 hours ago, ck_in_fla said:

Am I the only one who thinks the sad looking Queens should be removed from the landscape?  I hate to say it, but they are actually detracting from the overall landscape.

I'm just saying...

Fully agree. Idk if anyone else feels this, but personally I do not like queen palms. To me they just scream "not tropical" lol nor do they even look good imo. If I am looking for a bulletproof palm on for my landscaping I would go for a native sabal palmetto as I think it is a far better looking palm.

 

16 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

You have my support for replacing dead/dying/languishing queens with native Roystonea regia since the lethal bronzing and fusarium wilt outbreak hit us hard over here.  After seeing Royals survive 2010, there's just not a good reason not to replace an invasive with a native that looks better 90+% of the time.

Agreed. Royals are beautiful, native, and tropical while still hardy enough to be almost bullet proof in coastal Tampa Bay (barring an unlucky 80s like decade). 

I've noticed alot more royal palms being used for public landscaping in Hillsborough and Pinellas like the I-275 interchanges in Pinellas and all around TPA especially the around the new rental car facility and cell phone waiting lot. Good to see the area embracing them. If it were up to me, Roystonea regia would be THE landscaping tree for all highway interchanges in Pinellas and Hillsborough south of I-4, just like south Florida

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by cocoforcoconuts

[RedRabbit]

Spotted what looks like a pre-80s royal in Kenwood (St. Pete) over the weekend a few houses away from the pre-2010 coconut. This is more than 2 miles inland!

 

[ck_in_fla]

On 8/18/2022 at 8:16 PM, ck_in_fla said:

Am I the only one who thinks the sad looking Queens should be removed from the landscape?  I hate to say it, but they are actually detracting from the overall landscape.

I'm just saying...

I will add this comment...

I was in High School when my family moved to Florida (Orlando).  I can remember some Queen Palms in South Orlando that looked quite nice.  When fed and watered properly, a Queen palm can look spectacular.  I can remember some well grown Queen palms with trunks that were so fat adults couldn't get their arms around.  And, they had that grey, concrete look to them (much like Royals).  The issue is that most Queen palms in Florida suffer from deficiencies and look far from their best.

My parents owned acreage with a fully self-contained lake on the property.  All across the back, there were Queen palms and most of those looked spectacular.  They had plenty of organic matter in the soil and an unlimited amount of water in the lake that kept them irrigated year round.

So, the issue is that most of the Queen palms aren't properly cared for.  And, they seem to be more difficult to care for that the alternatives.

Just my two cents...

[ck_in_fla]

This passage should read "So, the issue is that most of the Queen palms aren't properly cared for.  And, they seem to be more difficult to care for than the alternatives.".  I couldn't figure out how to edit the message...

[kinzyjr]

On 7/24/2022 at 10:02 PM, kinzyjr said:

Combee Coconuts - these had escaped my attention until recently, but they are setting fruit this year.  I'll have to get a more recent photo of these since I saw coconuts on them today.  By messing around with Google Street View, you can see these back to June 2016, which means they made it through the advective freeze in 2018.  Photo from Google - Feb 2021.

Google Street View: https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0530653,-81.9086282,3a,48.6y,314.1h,95.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAsP6m0kusiF014doFuh2eA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Here they are in fruit:

 

[kinzyjr]

A

[kinzyjr]

A few photos of a nice landscape, featuring some large Traveler's Palms (Ravenala madagascariensis) as well as some mature Foxtails (Wodyetia bifurcata) and a coconut with a few years in the ground.

[kinzyjr]

A nice coconut just off Recker Highway today over in Winter Haven: 

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0013599,-81.7558156,3a,15y,123.01h,91.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1su6tk686S4RxNi7DX0DJ0Yg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Today, a little more filled out on the crown:

 

[kinzyjr]

A few more from the Lake Howard area of Winter Haven today.  The photos were from street view in Feb 2021 and the Majesties in particular are a lot larger now.

Looks like a potential pair of Veitchia on the right:

Some smaller Majesties near a dock... and then a larger set.

[RedRabbit]

4 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

A few more from the Lake Howard area of Winter Haven today.  The photos were from street view in Feb 2021 and the Majesties in particular are a lot larger now.

Looks like a potential pair of Veitchia on the right:

Some smaller Majesties near a dock... and then a larger set.

Wow, nice finds! I think you’re probably right about them being Veitchia, but I’m not 100% sure. They also kind of resemble Carpentaria. Either way, great find. 👍

[RedRabbit]

I think this may be some sort of Ceiba in Safety Harbor.

This tree is quite striking in person, there must be a good story behind it being here.

Edited October 11, 2022 by RedRabbit

[Silas_Sancona]

54 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

I think this may be some sort of Ceiba in Safety Harbor.

This tree is quite striking in person, there must be a good story behind it being here.

There is..
 

 

[Chatta]

It was planted in 1870, thats the Kapok Tree Garden & Event Hall.

[kinzyjr]

This Hyophorbe lagenicaulis (Bottle palm) made it through Jan 2008/2010/2018/2022 in the Turtle Rock area.  Both freezes in 2010 took a toll, but it bounced back.  You can see the flower spathes starting to form in the current photo.

October 2022

May 2011

December 2007

Map: You can see from the map that there is water to the north, northwest, and west - the direction our coldest air takes when a cold front approaches.

[kinzyjr]

A flowering Dictyosperma album conjugatum in the Lakeland Highlands:

[RedRabbit]

Not exactly palm related, but the topography of Northern Pinellas is pretty interesting.

The western side of the peninsula has hills, as most people know, with them extending from around Bellair to Tarpon Springs. Today, I was in downtown Palm Harbor (yes, it does have a downtown, sort of) and was surprised to see this:

They probably gain 50-60ft of elevation over about a 1/4th mile. While there are better views to be had, I’m not aware of anywhere else in Florida that has hills right by the ocean/gulf like this.

I’ve mentioned before Safety Harbor gets to around 110’ and there’s about a 30-40’ hill in Phillipe Park right on Tampa Bay. I think their Native American mound is around 70’. These aren’t Lake Wales Ridge kind of numbers, but very unique topography for Florida and there may be some unique local microclimates from it.

 

[kinzyjr]

2 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

They probably gain 50-60ft of elevation over about a 1/4th mile. While there are better views to be had, I’m not aware of anywhere else in Florida that has hills right by the ocean/gulf like this.

I’ve mentioned before Safety Harbor gets to around 110’ and there’s about a 30-40’ hill in Phillipe Park right on Tampa Bay. I think their Native American mound is around 70’. These aren’t Lake Wales Ridge kind of numbers, but very unique topography for Florida and there may be some unique local microclimates from it.

It usually does help to keep the air moving and mixing as well as allowing the coldest air to run down the hill to the water to be modified.  I checked the KFLPALMH146 station on Wunderground since it is somewhat close by and it doesn't appear that it was appreciably better than other places during January 2022 (30.9F).  This station should be on AmbientWeather.net as well since it is a 2902C weather station.

[kinzyjr]

Chambeyronia oliviformis (formerly Kentiopsis oliviformis) from Lakeland City Hall's east entrance:

[RedRabbit]

On 10/22/2022 at 10:46 PM, kinzyjr said:

It usually does help to keep the air moving and mixing as well as allowing the coldest air to run down the hill to the water to be modified.  I checked the KFLPALMH146 station on Wunderground since it is somewhat close by and it doesn't appear that it was appreciably better than other places during January 2022 (30.9F).  This station should be on AmbientWeather.net as well since it is a 2902C weather station.

Good find! If memory serves, that freeze was advective so I wonder if it would have held up better during a radiational event… Either way, I’ll be keeping an eye on that station along with some of the higher elevation ones in Safety Harbor.

Logically it seems like they should have some kind of microclimate advantage. However, judging by what grows there it’s not convincing. 

On 10/23/2022 at 11:29 AM, kinzyjr said:

Chambeyronia oliviformis (formerly Kentiopsis oliviformis) from Lakeland City Hall's east entrance:

Wow, talk about good siting. No freeze will ever take that palm out!

[kinzyjr]

3 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Good find! If memory serves, that freeze was advective so I wonder if it would have held up better during a radiational event… Either way, I’ll be keeping an eye on that station along with some of the higher elevation ones in Safety Harbor.

Logically it seems like they should have some kind of microclimate advantage. However, judging by what grows there it’s not convincing. 

That would be worth consideration.  Rather than looking at the ultimate low this year, it might be good to compare the day after the low was set since that night was the radiational frost night.  Then again, we can probably just wait for this winter and see what we get this year.

You had me curious about Oldsmar from the old map you posted with "9b?" beside that area and from our conversation about Ficus aurea being absent from the area.  I checked some of the stations on AmbientWeather.net.  My expectation was that Oldsmar would average out above freezing, even with some cold pockets.  Out of the four I checked, three were in the high 20s and 1 did actually come in just above freezing.  The average of all four is 29.4F.

[RedRabbit]

3 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

That would be worth consideration.  Rather than looking at the ultimate low this year, it might be good to compare the day after the low was set since that night was the radiational frost night.  Then again, we can probably just wait for this winter and see what we get this year.

You had me curious about Oldsmar from the old map you posted with "9b?" beside that area and from our conversation about Ficus aurea being absent from the area.  I checked some of the stations on AmbientWeather.net.  My expectation was that Oldsmar would average out above freezing, even with some cold pockets.  Out of the four I checked, three were in the high 20s and 1 did actually come in just above freezing.  The average of all four is 29.4F.

Oldsmar has been a tough one to figure out. I live nearby and there’s a good amount of Z10 palms, particularly on that peninsula. But no f aurea, no older coconuts, etc. I’ve also explored Upper Tampa Bay Park (just to the east) extensively and have never found an f aurea, but it could be due to their controlled burns.

I suspect the problem is cold air from Brooker Creek Preserve drains out from Oldsmar. The wind is from the N or NNE and the bay does nothing to help. Even so, it still seems slightly odd to me.

[Looking Glass]

On 10/19/2022 at 10:38 PM, kinzyjr said:

A flowering Dictyosperma album conjugatum in the Lakeland Highlands:

That’s a beauty right there.  Love these guys.  If my potted babies grow up like this someday, I’ll be pretty thrilled. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Looking Glass

[RedRabbit]

Here’s a nice older coconut in an area where you don’t find many. Technically it’s Clearwater, but it’s on the Tampa Bay side directly south of Safety Harbor.

 

[RedRabbit]

Finally found a strangler fig in Oldsmar (after searching for 3 years.)

 

[bubba]

I remember large coconuts on Clearwater Beach in the 1950s as a kid. I also remember ubiquitous coconuts throughout Orlando. It must have been the 1962 freeze that took Cocos nucifera out of the normal playing field in these areas.