Seeding Sabal miamiensis

[PalmatierMeg]

I have received a request for photos of my larger, seeding Sabal miamiensis so have decided to share the following with everyone. I took them today. Quick review: Sabal miamiensis was first described from a population of Sabal palms on a limestone outcrop near Miami in the 1990s. Some specimens were taken for several botanical gardens but before any action was taken to preserve the native population, developers destroyed it. Whether this Sabal is a totally new species, a hybrid or ????? is a matter of debate but it is extinct in the wild. I received my mother plant as a 2-leaf seedling from a reliable sources in 2008.

The seeds in the photos should start ripening in the next few weeks and I hope to have some available by Jan.

Sabal miamiensis with seeds, Cape Coral, 2019

[Steve in Florida]

Meg, what's the diameter of it's crown?

[Bigfish]

Looks great!  Mine is a sibling of yours, in Gainesville.  Yours is a bit quicker than mine in your climate!

[PalmTreeDude]

How hardy are these? At least a southern 8b? I'm just curious since they originate from Southeast Florida. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by PalmTreeDude

[kinzyjr]

Sabal etonia is either a synonym or a very close relative, depending on your botanical persuasion.  Trebrown lists them as 9a (https://www.trebrown.com/palms_arecaceae.php), but I my Cold Hardiness Observation sheet in the freeze damage forums lists a few observations with no damage at 13F in GA and 9F in TN with minor damage.  There are other observations in the 20s, but these are the lowest ones I've put in the spreadsheet so far.

[Bigfish]

26 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

How hardy are these? At least a southern 8b? I'm just curious since they originate from Southeast Florida. 

There’s a pretty good-sized one growing in Savannah, GA, which is 8b.  I imagine they could be tried in 8a with success.

[PalmatierMeg]

19 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Sabal etonia is either a synonym or a very close relative, depending on your botanical persuasion.  Trebrown lists them as 9a (https://www.trebrown.com/palms_arecaceae.php), but I my Cold Hardiness Observation sheet in the freeze damage forums lists a few observations with no damage at 13F in GA and 9F in TN with minor damage.  There are other observations in the 20s, but these are the lowest ones I've put in the spreadsheet so far.

I keep hoping DNA tests will establish this palm's standing among the Sabals. But my personal experience is that S.m. is not a match for S. etonia. Etonia struggles to survive in my calcareous, alkaline soil. I have one dwarfish etonia left from seeds I germinated in 2008 - about 3' tall and 4' wide that produces maybe 200 seeds a season compared to my S. miamiensis just a year older and several times larger with seed crops of many 1,000s. I cut off 7 of 10 inflorescenses from my miamiensis this year. My etonia has leaves that are only slightly costapalmate vs the miamiensis' "praying hands" costapalmate appearance. Seeds of my etonia are smaller than those of the miamiensis. I can't swear to it, but I strongly suspect this palm is as coldhardy as S. palmetto.

I return to a point I made several years ago: whatever this Sabal's ID proves to be, i.e., hybrid, duplicate or separate sp, it once existed as a wild population that was wiped out and now survives only in a garden setting. That genetic diversity almost lost gives it value that makes it worthy of preservation.

[kinzyjr]

@PalmatierMeg Thank you for sharing your observations.  I'm familiar with the seed size difference and your post clearly makes a case that this species should have remained distinct.

The Trebrown database I use to check the spreadsheet has Sabal miamiensis listed as a separate species.  Unfortunately, the only hardiness observation I have keyed in at this point is from Leu Gardens, where it suffered no damage during the January 2010 freeze.  Since this palm is currently regarded as a synonym of Sabal etonia, I presented those observations to give some idea of what the hardiness of Sabal miamiensis might be. 

@Steve in Florida provided a temperature range, similar to the range I posted above, in this thread in the Sales forum: Sabal miamiensis - Seeds for Sale

If anyone has additional hardiness observations for this palm, please share them.

[Bigfish]

On 10/31/2019 at 10:47 AM, PalmatierMeg said:

I keep hoping DNA tests will establish this palm's standing among the Sabals. But my personal experience is that S.m. is not a match for S. etonia. Etonia struggles to survive in my calcareous, alkaline soil. I have one dwarfish etonia left from seeds I germinated in 2008 - about 3' tall and 4' wide that produces maybe 200 seeds a season compared to my S. miamiensis just a year older and several times larger with seed crops of many 1,000s. I cut off 7 of 10 inflorescenses from my miamiensis this year. My etonia has leaves that are only slightly costapalmate vs the miamiensis' "praying hands" costapalmate appearance. Seeds of my etonia are smaller than those of the miamiensis. I can't swear to it, but I strongly suspect this palm is as coldhardy as S. palmetto.

I return to a point I made several years ago: whatever this Sabal's ID proves to be, i.e., hybrid, duplicate or separate sp, it once existed as a wild population that was wiped out and now survives only in a garden setting. That genetic diversity almost lost gives it value that makes it worthy of preservation.

Hi Meg,

 I think your S. etonia is probably just a Sabal minor.  S. etonia has VERY costapalmate leaves, like S. miamiensis, but in my experience, is much smaller overall than S. miamiensis.  I remember you posting a picture of your S. etonia on this forum somewhere, and I think it’s a case of mistaken identity.  Here’s a Sabal etonia that has been growing for probably at least a decade in Chattanooga, TN.  In my experience, seeds from this S. etonia are just as large or larger than those of S. miamiensis.

[Brad Mondel]

Any updates Meg?

[Palmy Pal]

On 10/30/2019 at 4:16 PM, Bigfish said:

There’s a pretty good-sized one growing in Savannah, GA, which is 8b.  I imagine they could be tried in 8a with success.

Interesting. Where is this one located in Savannah GA? I would like to see how it looks in Georgia. 

[Bigfish]

On 3/24/2021 at 3:58 PM, Palmy Pal said:

Interesting. Where is this one located in Savannah GA? I would like to see how it looks in Georgia. 

It’s growing at the Bamboo Farm and Coastal Gardens.  They have a nice palm collection there!