USDA interactive map

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

This map has been broken for a few months.  Anyone know if they will ever fix it??

[Jeff985]

I noticed that too. I’m wondering if it’s down so they can update it. 

[Xerarch]

Thought it was just me, it’s a great resource so I hope it gets fixed soon. If they go off 30 year averages the averages are about to get a big leap warmer as the devastating 80’s are about to fall off the 30 year. 

[GottmitAlex]

I believe they are based off lows...

This winter is not looking promising heatwise.

 

[mdsonofthesouth]

Well it is a government website...their track record for that is pretty terrible. 

[Steve in Florida]

I e-mailed them about two months ago by using two e-mail address on their websites.  I just got an automated reply that someone would be responding as quickly as possible, but never received an actual response.  In October they posted that they had completely revised and updated their data sets for their mapping websites.  It seems doubtful that they have the slightest clue when the USDA zones map will be fixed.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Steve in Florida

[GottmitAlex]

14 minutes ago, Steve in Florida said:

I e-mailed them about two months ago by using two e-mail address on their websites.  I just got an automated reply that someone would be responding as quickly as possible, but never received an actual response.  In October they posted that they had completely revised and updated their data sets for their mapping websites.  It seems doubtful that they have the slightest clue when the USDA zones map will be fixed.

Well, I hope they take this upcoming winter into their data/results. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by GottmitAlex

[Hombre de Palmas]

I wonder when they are going to update the Köppen Climate Map?

We're just about 20 miles away from the Tropics, according to Köppen,  and it would be cool to be recategorized. Of course, the year after they do it, we would get 6 inches of snow.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Hombre de Palmas

[PalmTreeDude]

The interactive map won't work for me either. 

[RedRabbit]

9 hours ago, Hombre de Palmas said:

I wonder when they are going to update the Köppen Climate Map?

We're just about 20 miles away from the Tropics, according to Köppen,  and it would be cool to be recategorized. Of course, the year after they do it, we would get 6 inches of snow.

I’d be more interested to see that too. I think more of FL should be classified as tropical. 
 

As for USDA, I’m not sure if an update would be a good thing. I think my area of Tampa will probably move to 10a, but coastal areas like St. Petersburg, Sarasota, etc probably will still be in 10a. It’s bad enough South Tampa and Sanibel Island are in the same zone, a USDA update will probably just make that problem worse. I’d like to see some 10b on FL’s coast, but I’m not sure we will get it anywhere.

[palmsOrl]

I have no doubt that zone 10b extends northward on the FL east coast at least as far north as Cocoa Beach, right on the coast.  This is difficult to depict on smaller, low resolution maps.  Zone 10a on the barrier islands probably terminates somewhere between New Smyrna and Daytona Beach.  I'm guessing zone 11 probably begins on the barrier islands between Palm Beach and Fort Landerdale.

[RedRabbit]

1 hour ago, palmsOrl said:

I have no doubt that zone 10b extends northward on the FL east coast at least as far north as Cocoa Beach, right on the coast.  This is difficult to depict on smaller, low resolution maps.  Zone 10a on the barrier islands probably terminates somewhere between New Smyrna and Daytona Beach.  I'm guessing zone 11 probably begins on the barrier islands between Palm Beach and Fort Landerdale.

That sounds about right to me, but I doubt USDA will reflect it when it updates. Orlando might still be 9B too. I think USDA has metro Orlando around 27 or 28f so it probably won’t jump by 3f on an update. Who knows though, hopefully they update their methodology and we see something totally different next time.

Edited November 27, 2019 by RedRabbit

[palmsOrl]

On 11/27/2019 at 12:54 AM, RedRabbit said:

That sounds about right to me, but I doubt USDA will reflect it when it updates. Orlando might still be 9B too. I think USDA has metro Orlando around 27 or 28f so it probably won’t jump by 3f on an update. Who knows though, hopefully they update their methodology and we see something totally different next time.

If they go by the most recent data at the airports they will, but i don't know if they will show this on the new map or not.

[Jimbean]

https://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-florida-2012-usda-plant-zone-hardiness-map.php

Here's an interactive Florida map.

[bubba]

Just cannot get my arms around this USDA criteria for accurately depicting climate. Numerous places on the globe exist with lows never below 40 F. that would be classified as 11 but average highs around 50 F. How can USDA paradigm accurately depict climate necessary for tropical palms?

[kinzyjr]

53 minutes ago, bubba said:

Just cannot get my arms around this USDA criteria for accurately depicting climate. Numerous places on the globe exist with lows never below 40 F. that would be classified as 11 but average highs around 50 F. How can USDA paradigm accurately depict climate necessary for tropical palms?

In totality, it can't as it works from averages of low temperatures over a given period of time vs. it only takes one terrible freeze to kill tropicals.  The example often given is that a refrigerator is technically USDA zone 10. 

The Sunset Zones were intended to create a better overall picture of climate, but didn't do a great job for Central Florida (Sunset Zone 26) as there is a lot of difference in what will grow at the various locations inside of that region, depending on where you are located.  I doubt anyone would contend that growing plants in St. Augustine is the same as growing in Cocoa Beach or St. Petersburg, but they are both in Sunset Zone 26.

In my own case, I favor simplicity.

• It survived 2010 = long-term hardy
• Specimens survived 1985 + 1989 = bullet-proof

As you alluded to, USDA Zones are a decent starting point to get an idea of what will prevail against the cold in an area, but additional study is required on the part of the grower.

[Silas_Sancona]

8 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

In totality, it can't as it works from averages of low temperatures over a given period of time vs. it only takes one terrible freeze to kill tropicals.  The example often given is that a refrigerator is technically USDA zone 10. 

The Sunset Zones were intended to create a better overall picture of climate, but didn't do a great job for Central Florida (Sunset Zone 26) as there is a lot of difference in what will grow at the various locations inside of that region, depending on where you are located.  I doubt anyone would contend that growing plants in St. Augustine is the same as growing in Cocoa Beach or St. Petersburg, but they are both in Sunset Zone 26.

In my own case, I favor simplicity.

• It survived 2010 = long-term hardy
• Specimens survived 1985 + 1989 = bullet-proof

As you alluded to, USDA Zones are a decent starting point to get an idea of what will prevail against the cold in an area, but additional study is required on the part of the grower.

^^This.. 

 While each " tool" serves as a guide, none are perfect.. One has to be able to put the pieces of the puzzle together to get a better idea of the bigger picture.  As much as I prefer Plant Maps or Sunset data (  especially when referring to micro climate data for CA/ AZ / NV/ NM  specifically ) over data obtained using Koppin or USDA sources,  neither Sunset or Plant Maps are 100% perfect. There are several spots I used to hike often back in San Jose which buck some of the generalized descriptions used by Sunset simply because they are such small areas, relative to the overall scale used by Sunset itself. Yet, some of those spots are very different compared to other areas in the same neighborhood, or part of town. In such cases, this is where the simplicity/ long term survivability rule comes into play.. Putting it all together,  a grower gets a better picture of their areas climate and how far one might be able to push it, let alone any limits that may exist to doing so.  

 

[Jeff985]

The map is working again, however there aren’t any changes to it. It’s still 1976-2005. 

[Steve in Florida]

Thanks for letting everyone know.  I suspect if they do update the map it will only be current through 2015.

[Jeff985]

I’ll have to do the math to see what that would do for my area. I figured it for 1989-2018 and Houston’s (Hobby Airport) average low was 28 point something. I would think Galveston would be classified as 10a. Maybe  even areas along the bay, but that’s hard to imagine after low 20’s a couple years ago. But it’s all based on averages, so who knows. I higher zone rating might have an impact on plant availability though which is what I am hoping for. 

[Jimbean]

If I had the time I would still like to do a usda map of Florida in video format where it shows the zones changing year by year as the moving average changes every year.