Palm Protection Method Photos Master Thread

[Allen]

Please post your palm protection photos for those who ask this time of year.  Post your photos and what zone you've tested this in.

Here are mine for 7a Trachycarpus

Thermocube, Mini lights and temp sensor

Wrapped 1.5 oz dewitt frost cloth

Circle fence cover wrapped again in frost cloth, staked down.

Box method with plastic, notice angled roof, ample vents, blackout fabric on sun side.  Pegboard for top

Edited November 30, 2019 by Allen

[Allen]

Temp sensors 1 in each palm

Larger palm pole attached to palm with lid instead of fence around it.

frost cover enclosures for smaller palms up to 6'.  These can be taken higher and staked

Quick wrap for 1 cold night.  

Edited November 30, 2019 by Allen

[GottmitAlex]

 

[mdsonofthesouth]

My main method of protection.

For keeping bad freezing rain off them.

For 2018 events

 

Honestly I'm done with the tent method after this year (since I am not ready for another method) but I'm worried about wrapping since the plans grown nearly all year round since we get a lot of warm spells over winter and I only have the coldest hardy palms. Palms like Sabal minor and rhapidophyllum get zero protection.

Edited December 1, 2019 by mdsonofthesouth

[Allen]

Structures for this year.  Largest structure is 9' and has one wire circle over the other.  The others are 6' tall fencing with water heater tank basin lids. It's warm so far but going on a long vacation and can't take any chances of major arctic weather.  

 

 

[kbob11]

Here are my methods.  Small box is a 4' Needle packed with straw and leaves.  The top is frost cloth to allow for ventilation. That has no heating element.  The larger box houses a 4' T. Fortunei.  That has an Inkbird thermomiter set at 38f.  There is a 250watt heatlamp and roof heating tape on the ground to keep the ground thawed at all times.  So far so good, the windmill looks like the day I wrapped it.  I'm 6a with a low of 10f this winter.

 

[RyManUtah]

I never have to do anything that elaborate, but I will share some of my techniques in case they help somebody else. 
 

Simple black “privacy screen”. Absorbs a lot of sunlight and warms up the area faster, as it’s in morning shade. 
 

 

This is just a 2L bottle filled with water. It doesn’t cool off much after a day in the sun, and keeps the pot from freezing at night. the entire thing gets a cover when precipitation is expected.

My smaller pots get brought inside if a freeze is expected, but this one is too heavy to move constantly. 
 

 

I also use rocks as mulch, for two reasons. They radiate a lot of heat, and wood chips aren’t readily available around here. Rocks are free/cheap. 

[RyManUtah]

Impromptu seedling, Arctic wind cover. Best I could do on short notice.

 

[Tropicdoc]

How long can a palm stay under cover without sun before the existing fronds start to lose color and die?

[kbob11]

Mine have been in the box since mid nov and look the same with sturdy spears.  I will update in March when I uncover for the year. 

[Tropicdoc]

I’ve used coverings etc just usually take them on and off so was curious. I’m especially interested to try to grow a coconut here in zone 9a. I know. Crazy right?

[sandgroper]

This is a great idea for a thread, some really good ideas to learn from.

[Allen]

1 hour ago, Tropicdoc said:

How long can a palm stay under cover without sun before the existing fronds start to lose color and die?

Don't know about a Coconut but Trachycarpus look the same as when you put them in the box after 3 months.     Some more tropical palms might not go dormant so well though.  I keep Phoenix Roebellini, Majesty Palms, Butia & Mule in 60F garage with very little light for 2-4 months.   Very little frond die back.

 

You can use this setup and wrap trunks with burlap to save trunk/spear if you don't want to wrap whole palm or don't care about frond damage.

Trachy can take snow just not extreme cold. Here is today's snow here with a large potted Fortunei (2' full trunk) and a Fortunei in back in a cage.  Pots go in garage under 20F.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Allen

[Tropicdoc]

Thanks for the input I have a small potted coconut that I brought inside for the winter it is having no browning or yellowing. I just wonder could I wrap it and heat it 4 months out of the year. Growing a new crown every year I think would not give me much of a palm to look at. But if I could save and wrap 5 or 6 fronds and then grow new ones all spring summer and fall it might be worth it. I also have king palms that I’d rather not wrap and unwrap 5 times a year for freezes. Just leaving them bundled would be nice easier.

[sandgroper]

23 minutes ago, Allen said:

Don't know about a Coconut but Trachycarpus look the same as when you put them in the box after 3 months.     Some more tropical palms might not go dormant so well though.  I keep Phoenix Roebellini, Majesty Palms, Butia & Mule in 60F garage with very little light for 2-4 months.   Very little frond die back.

 

You can use this setup and wrap trunks with burlap to save trunk/spear if you don't want to wrap whole palm or don't care about frond damage.

Trachy can take snow just not extreme cold. Here is today's snow here with a large potted Fortunei (2' full trunk) and a Fortunei in back in a cage.  Pots go in garage under 20F.

Wow! That last photo is amazing! Funny how no matter what our climate is like we all try to push it that bit further. We've all got issues.

[newtopalmsMD]

My garage is unheated but south facing.  it rarely gets below 40 degrees in winter.  I have hung four grow lights from the ceiling.  I keep a Chinese fan palm, a Mediterranean fan palm and a butia capita in 10 to 15 gallon pots here from mid-November to April.  The wagons have smaller needles, and sables of various species that I roll outside during the day and leave out if night temps stay above 20F.

I am actually debating about whether to fertilize the 3 larger palms that stay in all winter.   Any experience with this type of overwintering?

Thanks

[newtopalmsMD]

I call this the sabal minor umbrella.  Its an old beach umbrella that I put out when we are expecting freezing rain to keep the ice off most of the sabal (and out of the crown)  I have a very long rebar in the ground and the handle of the umbrella goes over the rebar to keep it from blowing around, which could be damage inducing.  This could also be done for smaller needles.

[Allen]

57 minutes ago, newtopalmsMD said:

My garage is unheated but south facing.  it rarely gets below 40 degrees in winter.  I have hung four grow lights from the ceiling.  I keep a Chinese fan palm, a Mediterranean fan palm and a butia capita in 10 to 15 gallon pots here from mid-November to April.  The wagons have smaller needles, and sables of various species that I roll outside during the day and leave out if night temps stay above 20F.

I am actually debating about whether to fertilize the 3 larger palms that stay in all winter.   Any experience with this type of overwintering?

Thanks

 

My garage has a heated space above it and on 2 other sides and a insulated door.  it rarely goes below 60F as I put a thermometer out there one year and it stays that even during arctic blasts.  So I water well every 2 weeks with one of those expandable garden hoses and sometimes put a little osmocote on them.  At 40 I don't know about the fertilizer but if it gets warmer a little osmocote might not hurt.  The plants in this pic are 3 rows deep and pots pushed together so more palms here than you think.  There is a Musa basjoo, tropical hibiscus, 6 majesties, red Abyssinian and on the right is a 10' Alocasia Portora.  The rail in the pic is a little over 7feet tall.  I have another spot for plants in the front of garage too lol!  I have been watering insect trouble plants with a systemic insecticide before putting in garage, the majesties and the red banana.  

Edited February 8, 2020 by Allen

[RyManUtah]

58 minutes ago, newtopalmsMD said:

I call this the sabal minor umbrella.  Its an old beach umbrella that I put out when we are expecting freezing rain to keep the ice off most of the sabal (and out of the crown)  I have a very long rebar in the ground and the handle of the umbrella goes over the rebar to keep it from blowing around, which could be damage inducing.  This could also be done for smaller needles.

you’ve given me ideas, brilliant. thank you 

[Tropicdoc]

This doesn’t make any sense. If you cover an area of lawn with a box to deny sunlight, it is yellow and dead within a week. Yet you can put a palm in complete darkness for 3 months and there is no yellowing?!

[Allen]

3 minutes ago, Tropicdoc said:

This doesn’t make any sense. If you cover an area of lawn with a box to deny sunlight, it is yellow and dead within a week. Yet you can put a palm in complete darkness for 3 months and there is no yellowing?!

There is no damage to Trachycarpus and Sabal varieties.  They literally look the same as when you wrapped them unless they had some kind of cold/heat damage.  That's the 2 I have experience with.  Most years mine grows a frond or a half of one.

[Tropicdoc]

Not saying I don’t believe you. I just don’t understand it! I guess I could put my potted coconut in a dark room for a week and see what happens

[Allen]

20 minutes ago, Tropicdoc said:

Not saying I don’t believe you. I just don’t understand it! I guess I could put my potted coconut in a dark room for a week and see what happens

A tropical palm may not respond the same.  Coconut would have lowest odds of success in my guesstimate.   I don't have unwrap videos but here is a guy in PA after wrapping several months a Trachycarpus to see how it looks after.  This is zone 6a so his protection is a little elaborate.  Looks like he generally wraps mid Nov - Mid March.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3SiM-nMWCs

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by Allen

[Tropicdoc]

When the palm is wrapped do the fronds touch the wrap directly?

[Allen]

8 minutes ago, Allen said:

 

Yes they can touch burlap or frost cloth directly but never plastic of any kind.   I don't recommend plastic unless you know exactly what you are doing.  See some of my pics above.  The guy above wrapped a pindo too that looked a little yellow after 4 months.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Allen

[Tropicdoc]

I use bubble foil insulation 

[Allen]

58 minutes ago, Tropicdoc said:

I use bubble foil insulation 

If you mean bubble wrap it is dangerous because it doesn't breathe and will fry a palm if it is in the sun and wrapped directly over a palm.  It might can be used short term for wrapping like 1-2 nights but i would not be able to recommend it especially long term.  Any palm especially the first year you try a method should have a temp sensor/humidity sensor in there to monitor if you're leaving long term.  A plastic wrapped palm will generate high humidity because the palm itself will transpire water vapor and it can't escape.  

Here is a good example of temps in my huts/breathable fabric.  The outside temp sensor is #4 and humidity is 97% .  The huts (#1,2,3,5) are breathable and the Christmas lights are drying the air around the palms and the humidity is 47-62%.  This also show my setup is giving me a +20F differential.  I just turned these on last night as we had a unpredictable arctic blast.  I will leave these off when temps are in 20's usually. and the palms probably didn't need them last night.  I used plastic once even vented 4 inches at the top and temps soared over 100F and humidity can soar if you aren't careful with anything wrapped close to the palm.

[Tropicdoc]

hmmm, yeah I get it. But the foil is on both sides blocking any radiant heat gain from the sun...... I think. I have used the bubble foil in the past with success, but only short term. I wonder what will happen to a palm inside of it for 3 months.......

Yes I tried fleece plus clear plastic once with big time heat damage.

[wrigjef]

9B Scottsdale, AZ

Cocos Nucifera in the ground in the Phoenix  area for 3 years now.  I use a PVC frame with clear plastic on the top and the two south facing sides I used clear shower curtains so I can open on warm days. The back two walls are up against the house so no sun would come thru so I used a tarp for those sides.  The frame is 7 feet tall and 5 feet wide.  The Palm is about 6 feet tall.  
I use a 250w halogen on a timer and it’s worked well so far!  This winter was a breeze!  

[GottmitAlex]

53 minutes ago, wrigjef said:

9B Scottsdale, AZ

Cocos Nucifera in the ground in the Phoenix  area for 3 years now.  I use a PVC frame with clear plastic on the top and the two south facing sides I used clear shower curtains so I can open on warm days. The back two walls are up against the house so no sun would come thru so I used a tarp for those sides.  The frame is 7 feet tall and 5 feet wide.  The Palm is about 6 feet tall.  
I use a 250w halogen on a timer and it’s worked well so far!  This winter was a breeze!  

[Allen]

4 hours ago, wrigjef said:

9B Scottsdale, AZ

Cocos Nucifera in the ground in the Phoenix  area for 3 years now.  I use a PVC frame with clear plastic on the top and the two south facing sides I used clear shower curtains so I can open on warm days. The back two walls are up against the house so no sun would come thru so I used a tarp for those sides.  The frame is 7 feet tall and 5 feet wide.  The Palm is about 6 feet tall.  
I use a 250w halogen on a timer and it’s worked well so far!  This winter was a breeze!  

Nice on the coco growing!  I would reiterate to everyone putting a temp sensor in a plastic hut type setup because if sun gets thru it can fry a palm fast.  It’s the only way to know what temps are doing inside.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Allen

[GottmitAlex]

7 hours ago, wrigjef said:

9B Scottsdale, AZ

Cocos Nucifera in the ground in the Phoenix  area for 3 years now.  I use a PVC frame with clear plastic on the top and the two south facing sides I used clear shower curtains so I can open on warm days. The back two walls are up against the house so no sun would come thru so I used a tarp for those sides.  The frame is 7 feet tall and 5 feet wide.  The Palm is about 6 feet tall.  
I use a 250w halogen on a timer and it’s worked well so far!  This winter was a breeze!  

 

 

Jeff, how old was it when you planted it?

[wrigjef]

11 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Jeff, how old was it when you planted it?

4 years in a pot before planting.  

[buffy]

I like moving blankets for smaller stuff. I cover those with big drum liner trash bags if I expect precipitation. Big stuff may get a frame if I really like it. 

[wrigjef]

15 hours ago, Allen said:

Nice on the coco growing!  I would reiterate to everyone putting a temp sensor in a plastic hut type setup because if sun gets thru it can fry a palm fast.  It’s the only way to know what temps are doing inside.

I have a Remote thermometer inside the greenhouse I can see from inside my house. Believe it or not this Coco can handle some intense heat with no effect on the tree from what I can tell.   It’s gotten to 130 degrees inside the greenhouse multiple times before I caught it and opened it up.   

[Allen]

59 minutes ago, wrigjef said:

I have a Remote thermometer inside the greenhouse I can see from inside my house. Believe it or not this Coco can handle some intense heat with no effect on the tree from what I can tell.   It’s gotten to 130 degrees inside the greenhouse multiple times before I caught it and opened it up.   

That would probably kill my palms.  I recommend a blackout on all sun sides or putting doubled frost cloth on that side for others reading this thread.  I’ve heard of a lot of palms dieing from sun exposed plastic huts is why I’m so nervous on those.   When I first tried plastic huts mine was vented and went over 100 on a cold day.  Over 110 is listed as death for many palms.   For cold hardy palms (trachycarpus),  I want the palm to have cool temps to harden off so when I unwrap it that cold temps don’t damage it.  

Edited February 20, 2020 by Allen

[wrigjef]

2 hours ago, Allen said:

Over 110 is listed as death for many palms.  

With all due respect, if this statement were true there would be no palm trees in Phoenix.  

[Allen]

57 minutes ago, wrigjef said:

With all due respect, if this statement were true there would be no palm trees in Phoenix.  

Good point what high temp is generally accepted to cause damage?  I’ll stick to my original statement though.  I think its pretty obvious many palms are damaged/killed above 110F.   

Edited February 20, 2020 by Allen

[Allen]

 

[wrigjef]

1 hour ago, Allen said:

Good point what high temp is generally accepted to cause damage?  I’ll stick to my original statement though.  I think its pretty obvious many palms are damaged/killed above 110F.   

It really depends on the type of Palm tree in my opinion.  110F would certainly be a point where any tree would be stressed but not sure at what temp they would die.  
I know a cocos Nucifera can handle 110F with no issue but you put a Ravenea Rivularis (Majesty Palm) in that temp and it will die in one day.   
 

In June of 2017 we had a week of temps right at 120F.  None of my palms showed any stress at all but my Ficus Nitida (Banyon) almost completely defoliated.  All the leaves eventually grew back 

Edited February 20, 2020 by wrigjef