Palm Protection Method Photos Master Thread

[Las Palmas Norte]

My Ravenea isn't liking it's time in the palm enclosure. What I suspect is a lack of air circulation has caused spotting and some fungus. I hit it today with my homemade fungicide that consists of baking soda, canola oil, water & plant based dish liquid. I've removed one of the 4 panels for improved air circulation.

 

[Allen]

56 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

My Ravenea isn't liking it's time in the palm enclosure. What I suspect is a lack of air circulation has caused spotting and some fungus. I hit it today with my homemade fungicide that consists of baking soda, canola oil, water & plant based dish liquid. I've removed one of the 4 panels for improved air circulation.

 

Put a temp sensor in there that also checks humidity.  Those cheap ones do it.  Something is wrong.  I don't trust that clear top in your enclosure.  Check the temps when sun shines on it.  Here I had a small well vented enclosure with plastic on one side when I started out and temps went over 110F in literally minutes. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Allen

[Las Palmas Norte]

5 hours ago, Allen said:

Put a temp sensor in there that also checks humidity.  Those cheap ones do it.  Something is wrong.  I don't trust that clear top in your enclosure.  Check the temps when sun shines on it.  Here I had a small well vented enclosure with plastic on one side when I started out and temps went over 110F in literally minutes. 

Humidity is high (85% - 100%) during the autumn, winter and much of early spring, No getting around that. What's not to "trust" about the clear top? Temps have not exceeded 65°F inside the enclosure since it was finished. The top is hinged and opens to allow ventilation and remains open most of the time. Sunny days are rare once summer is over. 

[SubTropicRay]

10 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

My Ravenea isn't liking it's time in the palm enclosure. What I suspect is a lack of air circulation has caused spotting and some fungus. I hit it today with my homemade fungicide that consists of baking soda, canola oil, water & plant based dish liquid. I've removed one of the 4 panels for improved air circulation.

 

The spotting looks like cold damage.  How cold was it in the enclosure?

[Allen]

5 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Humidity is high (85% - 100%) during the autumn, winter and much of early spring, No getting around that. What's not to "trust" about the clear top? Temps have not exceeded 65°F inside the enclosure since it was finished. The top is hinged and opens to allow ventilation and remains open most of the time. Sunny days are rare once summer is over. 

I guess I've been there and done that on the clear plastic so I'm just being paranoid if you are checking temps.   I'll post this for other people's benefit if this is not affecting you.  If you have a temp sensor that shows you a constant temperature history then you are ok.  But where I live a clear top if the sun shines on it with inside foil walls is the same thing as a makeshift stove.  I have kept potted majesty palms inside in the garage over winter in little light with no major issues.  I really don't see how the palm could have taken that much damage this fast without cold or heat damage.   https://www.treehugger.com/what-are-solar-ovens-5088602

Clear plastic greenhouses can burn plants for a number of reasons, including: 

 

• Direct sunlight

  Clear plastic allows more direct sunlight into the greenhouse, which can cause the interior to heat up quickly
• Hot spots

  The light that enters directly creates hot spots, while other areas in the greenhouse crop have a lower or colder temperature
• Temperature extremes

  Clear covers can result in temperature extremes, with high daytime temperatures and cooler nights
• Lack of ventilation

  If the greenhouse has no ventilation, the heat will rise inside and could potentially cook your specimens on sunny days

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Allen

[Gallop]

5 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Humidity is high (85% - 100%) during the autumn, winter and much of early spring, No getting around that. What's not to "trust" about the clear top? Temps have not exceeded 65°F inside the enclosure since it was finished. The top is hinged and opens to allow ventilation and remains open most of the time. Sunny days are rare once summer is over. 

You may not have enough air flow. Enclosures with high humidity are breeding grounds for fungus especially when they start sweating. I would spray with a reliable fungicide like Daconile. I put up enclosures every winter and have had my fair share of issues with fungus. I’ve lost many plants and have learned it’s important to provide adequate air flow when warm and humid. I open mine when temps hit 70 during a warm stretch and spray fungicide every 3-4 weeks. I have also used a small fan in enclosures. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Gallop

[GEnglish]

Allen, 

Thank you for your detailed video info on the tube enclosures with the plant drip pan as a top - these have given me a peace of mind for first year in ground setups - I made several of these for my <4 foot Trachycarpus, Butia, and and even as an outer shell on a 6 and 8 ft Washingtonia robusta. I’m even going to make a short one as a weather screen for an Agave americana. 

I haven’t had to use them much except 2 nights around Halloween last week when we had a dip to mid/low 20s so I thought it would be good practice to set up, adjust, monitor, etc for a few days.

During the day while enclosures were still up I noticed things warmed up quickly to around 80 in one enclosure when ambient outside was 40 something…I could easily pop the tops to allow air out but it was warm and humid air coming out when I did. Did you find that you had to open and vent any for your Butia or others you used these tubes for? I do really like the design - it keeps things pretty clean/uniform looking.
 

I did note that my sensors in enclosures that allowed more light to pass through (ie Dewitt frost cloth) warmed up quicker than ones that I used an internal wrapping of Planket material instead of another wrap of Dewitt. Also having that light hit a plastic baggie over the sensor may have given me a false high temp…Kind of hard to avoid sunshine in my south facing front yard.

we’re in the 70s and 80s again now so all enclosures are off and fronds untied. If you aren’t happy with the weather here in Arkansas just wait a minute

- Garrett in Mountain Home zone 7A

 

[Allen]

47 minutes ago, GEnglish said:

Allen, 

Thank you for your detailed video info on the tube enclosures with the plant drip pan as a top - these have given me a peace of mind for first year in ground setups - I made several of these for my <4 foot Trachycarpus, Butia, and and even as an outer shell on a 6 and 8 ft Washingtonia robusta. I’m even going to make a short one as a weather screen for an Agave americana. 

I haven’t had to use them much except 2 nights around Halloween last week when we had a dip to mid/low 20s so I thought it would be good practice to set up, adjust, monitor, etc for a few days.

During the day while enclosures were still up I noticed things warmed up quickly to around 80 in one enclosure when ambient outside was 40 something…I could easily pop the tops to allow air out but it was warm and humid air coming out when I did. Did you find that you had to open and vent any for your Butia or others you used these tubes for? I do really like the design - it keeps things pretty clean/uniform looking.
 

I did note that my sensors in enclosures that allowed more light to pass through (ie Dewitt frost cloth) warmed up quicker than ones that I used an internal wrapping of Planket material instead of another wrap of Dewitt. Also having that light hit a plastic baggie over the sensor may have given me a false high temp…Kind of hard to avoid sunshine in my south facing front yard.

we’re in the 70s and 80s again now so all enclosures are off and fronds untied. If you aren’t happy with the weather here in Arkansas just wait a minute

- Garrett in Mountain Home zone 7A

 

I would try to wait a while longer on all of them I put temps below.   I put the temp sensor AND the thermocube on the non sun side to avoid false readings (ie the north side of the palm).  I would wrap the inside palm 1-2 layers with planket or dewitt over the mini lights especially around the spear area.  WARNING - Never mummy wrap directly over C7 or C9 lights on a palm.    Remember the outside shell is mainly for dry cover and a little insulation.   I don't take these off and leave on all winter.  Butia Dec-March, Trachy Jan-Feb roughly depending on forecast.  I try not to protect until needed.  For you that would be any ice storm event,  under 25F on Washy, Under 25 on the Butia that small, under 20F when it grows.  Small Trachy under 21F (Small trachy will spear pull in wet cold until larger if you want to avoid that, fronds will take temps down to 13F as long as no wet in spear area) ,  under 12F when they get larger if you want to keep fronds nice.   Good thing about these enclosures is once made they pop on next year fast.    I store tubes in my attic.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV3d1bg2wa0

Inside wrap at 3 minutes on video

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Allen

[WisTex]

Can a palm survive 2 weeks in complete darkness being entirely covered?

Edited November 9, 2023 by WisTex

[Allen]

1 minute ago, WisTex said:

Can a palm survive 2 weeks in complete darkness resulting from being covered?

Sure they can go 3-4 months in darkness.  Best to have them cooler 30-60F for that.

[Las Palmas Norte]

9 hours ago, SubTropicRay said:

The spotting looks like cold damage.  How cold was it in the enclosure?

 

7 hours ago, Gallop said:

You may not have enough air flow. Enclosures with high humidity are breeding grounds for fungus especially when they start sweating. I would spray with a reliable fungicide like Daconile. I put up enclosures every winter and have had my fair share of issues with fungus. I’ve lost many plants and have learned it’s important to provide adequate air flow when warm and humid. I open mine when temps hit 70 during a warm stretch and spray fungicide every 3-4 weeks. I have also used a small fan in enclosures

Copy from initial earlier post,

"My Ravenea isn't liking it's time in the palm enclosure. What I suspect is a lack of air circulation has caused spotting and some fungus. I hit it today with my homemade fungicide that consists of baking soda, canola oil, water & plant based dish liquid. I've removed one of the 4 panels for improved air circulation."

After application of the fungicide, things look better although there could be permanent damage this early in the season. The thermocube kicks on at 35°F (2°C) and did so several times last week during clear skies. I've been considering a fan inside to circulate air in the future.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Las Palmas Norte

[Allen]

I joined a 6' and 4' welded wire fence using hog nose pliers to make it 9' tall and covered the outside with 2 layers of frost cloth using a 10'x20' planket. This type of enclose slips over the palm sideways as you don't join the circle until over the palm. Goes on in about 15 minutes or less. Underneath fronds tied and wrapped using plastic chicken wire fence, 300 mini lights on a thermocube, temp sensor and the palm is wrapped over that with frost cloth. Will Stay on Until March. The entire process from putting on lights to putting on cover was 30 minutes.  The structure which is reusable also took about 30 minutes to build.  It will come off in 10 minutes.  With the palm wrapped inside and the structure double or triple wrapped you can probably protect a palm rated 2 zones higher than yours

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08F7G5Z41/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HZUUZI/ref=twister_B0C5C15F6W?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08245KH8D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

How the inside looks (From Last years Video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hadCoZW-NVk

 

Today at 9' tall

Edited November 20, 2023 by Allen

[Las Palmas Norte]

Well done @Allen. A rather simple yet effective method, one I may borrow from in the future. 

[GEnglish]

Allen, on that 10x20 planket is that a tie down point or did you cut that through to the fence underneath?

[Allen]

3 minutes ago, GEnglish said:

Allen, on that 10x20 planket is that a tie down point or did you cut that through to the fence underneath?

I cut a little half inch slice and hooked to the fence underneath.  I tested the material before and it doesn't tear easy.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Allen

[Allen]

One other thing I would like to add to this thread is that it is a very educated guess when to protect your palms if you are covering like above.  You don't really want to cover too early but if you wait too long you could have a problem.  Snow is not a big issue for Trachycarpus if the temps are not low but it would be almost impossible to tie up fronds and cover a palm with Snow/Ice on it if temps continue to drop in the next few days after.  So I generally watch the weather really well and try to pick a good day to do this.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Allen

[Allen]

A video on a few mistakes I have seen in palm protection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz6pEzz1Dkc

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

1 hour ago, Allen said:

A video on a few mistakes I have seen in palm protection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz6pEzz1Dkc

 

Great video. I'm guilty of a couple of those. I recently built a big structure rather than a smaller one with fronds tied up for my R. rivularis. I have also been caught in last minute protection methods. I never lost any palms but as pointed out, it's much less stressful if prepared in advance.

[Gallop]

My winter protection has been put up. This will hopefully protect smaller sedlings in ground this winter. I’ll open up during warmer Wx and add a heat lamp if needed during coldest nights. Built with 1” pvc and 6 mill horticultural grade film. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Gallop

[GregVirginia7]

 

Getting things moving on the protection. The Chamaerops is really the only one I have that will get real cover. Already had some low 20’s nights.

In ground since 2014:

Got lazy last winter. Lights added after the fact. Yes, this is the same palm after a couple single digits nights:

Recovery:

Protection with umbrella to help keep it dryer for the winter:

I have a large piece of doubled up landscape cloth to throw over the top and secure with clothespins when temperatures get into the 20’s. There is a blanket of lights spread out on the ground all around the palm and a string of lights running up the larger trunk. This combination has always worked in the past without one loss of a frond due to cold. Live and learn. If it hits single digits I’ll throw a fleecy blanket over the top as well.

Going to give the Trachy’s some lights woven into the crowns and will cover the emerging spears with foam pipe insulation if necessary and that’s about it. Hopefully, El Niño will usher in a more normal winter with steady winter temps…less rollercoaster highs and lows effect.

 

[Than]

How do you guys know the cloth/fleece/plastic won't catch fire if in touch with lights?

[Las Palmas Norte]

4 hours ago, ego said:

How do you guys know the cloth/fleece/plastic won't catch fire if in touch with lights?

I don't think mini lights would ever get hot enough to start a fire. Regular C9 incandescent bulbs will scorch but still unlikely to flash up in flames.

[Than]

I see. Does it matter what colour the mini lights will be? I am about to buy some today.

[N8ALLRIGHT]

2 hours ago, ego said:

I see. Does it matter what colour the mini lights will be? I am about to buy some today.

No, the color has no bearing on the heat output.  Pick the color you like 👍just make sure incandescent not L.E.D

[Than]

On 12/6/2023 at 2:44 PM, N8ALLRIGHT said:

No, the color has no bearing on the heat output.  Pick the color you like 👍just make sure incandescent not L.E.D

I got 100 mini incandescent lights. I tried them and tbh when I put my hand next to them I can only feel slight heat. Maybe it's enough, I don't know. And perhaps it will be different in an enclosed space. 

Question. Given that they will be outdoors and I will use a breathable fleece, isn't rain a possible hazard? I know we are not supposed to use plastic so how do I keep the lights dry for safety?

[ChicagoPalma]

21 minutes ago, ego said:

I got 100 mini incandescent lights. I tried them and tbh when I put my hand next to them I can only feel slight heat. Maybe it's enough, I don't know. And perhaps it will be different in an enclosed space. 

Question. Given that they will be outdoors and I will use a breathable fleece, isn't rain a possible hazard? I know we are not supposed to use plastic so how do I keep the lights dry for safety?

Plastic is fine, and second of all, the mini lights work in an enclosed space, instead I recommend c9 light or more mini lights to make it work..

[Las Palmas Norte]

... or a 500 watt halogen.

[MarcusH]

On 11/5/2023 at 4:57 PM, RFun said:

I gets to be a bit ridiculous in some of these areas (not yours by any means).  Lots of hassle when you can devote your time to growing indoor potted palms.  Nothing wrong with that and there are some great indoor palm varieties.  I think my biggest pet peeve is when people go overboard when they aren't even in that bad of an area for what they are trying to grow.  Anyway, I always do encourage keeping on planting and constantly learning new things and being open to experimenting.  Just like to keep things in check and not get too carried away with it.  Sometimes you just have to let nature decide.

While I agree with everything you said so far I also want to add something to this topic. For most PT members growing palm is a passion and I can understand some people going the extra mile to protect their little family members.  While I'm living in an area where protection isn't necessary if you plant the right palms it amazes me what people in colder climates are willing to do to keep their palms alive but sooner or later your pushed palm is going to die no matter what you do especially in zones below 7b . Besides two Filiferas and one Robusta I also have two Syagrus romanzoffiana planted in the ground in a 9a zone ( former 8b/9a zone) but there's no chance for long term survival here in San Antonio.  No Queens were older than 20 years prior Feb 2021.  I'm not building a structure around it . I'll put christmas lights and frost cloth around and if that doesn't work then it is what it is. I'm not going to climb up a 40 foot trunk to wrap some lights and frost cloth around the the bud but I'd love to see someone trying to protect a mature tall palm . 

[N8ALLRIGHT]

19 hours ago, ego said:

I got 100 mini incandescent lights. I tried them and tbh when I put my hand next to them I can only feel slight heat. Maybe it's enough, I don't know. And perhaps it will be different in an enclosed space. 

Question. Given that they will be outdoors and I will use a breathable fleece, isn't rain a possible hazard? I know we are not supposed to use plastic so how do I keep the lights dry for safety?

Man as long as they are rated for outdoor use they'll take the rain fine. I saw that you were in Greece and a pretty warm area (9b/10a) , what are you protecting and how big? 100 minis may not be enough for a 10ft coconut but enough for seedling. I'd definitely roll with the fleece or frostcloth because it breathes. Whatever you're protecting has to be pretty tender if you're putting lights on it in 10a

[Than]

5 hours ago, N8ALLRIGHT said:

Man as long as they are rated for outdoor use they'll take the rain fine. I saw that you were in Greece and a pretty warm area (9b/10a) , what are you protecting and how big? 100 minis may not be enough for a 10ft coconut but enough for seedling. I'd definitely roll with the fleece or frostcloth because it breathes. Whatever you're protecting has to be pretty tender if you're putting lights on it in 10a

They are not rated for outdoor use. Bad choice I guess, but then again in our small Greek market you cannot find all these options you guys have in the huge US market. I'll search again.

I am trying to protect a 2m tall (about 6 feet) Terminalia Catappa which is in a pot. Too big to bring indoors this year. It has dropped its leaves already. It's very frost tender, I think it is a zone 11 plant. I am planning to protect only during cold snaps when temperature goes close to freezing. I have put the pot inside a bigger one with lots of pine needles and leaves around.

[GregVirginia7]

Got lazy last year but doing better this year…

The tall Trachy and more squat Brazoria are lit.

If I need to, I’ll wrap the trunks with burlap but the fronds are on their own…I’ll protect the spears on both so the spring flush doesn’t have spears that are half fried!

As for the Chamaerops…it’s back to covered and lit protection but everything stays unlit and open till temps get into the 20’s. I won’t let that poor 2014 in-ground original flounder again.

 

 There’s an umbrella over this and I have a doubled-up landscaper’s cloth I affix over the top.

The little Trachy, in ground around 2 years will get lights on in the 20’s and loosely covered…otherwise, unlit and wide open.

So, that’s about it…good luck this winter! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

[Las Palmas Norte]

The roof of my shelter was ripped off in heavy winds Christmas night. Snapped the metal hinges, but fortunately no damage to the roof itself. I had it propped open for ventilation and not latched down, so my neglect is the reason for that. More heavy wind is expected later today.

 

[Colin1110082]

If I were to do a winter protection method next winter I would probably choose this one. It seems the cheapest and easiest to make and it could come on and off easily. yesterday in zone 6 we had high 40s so a day like yesterday would’ve made it happy.

As far as ‘boiling’ your palm in other methods can’t you just poke a small hole in whatever side receives the least amount of wind maybe 5-10mm in diameter? 

I would do this method and maybe add a few camping tent stakes and string to hold it down better and maybe poke a small hole or two to get the air moving. What do you all think? This is for trachycarpus i’m not sure about other palms. 

[Colin1110082]

Just now, Colin1110082 said:

If I were to do a winter protection method next winter I would probably choose this one. It seems the cheapest and easiest to make and it could come on and off easily. yesterday in zone 6 we had high 40s so a day like yesterday would’ve made it happy.

As far as ‘boiling’ your palm in other methods can’t you just poke a small hole in whatever side receives the least amount of wind maybe 5-10mm in diameter? 

I would do this method and maybe add a few camping tent stakes and string to hold it down better and maybe poke a small hole or two to get the air moving. What do you all think? This is for trachycarpus i’m not sure about other palms. 

Oh yeah and I forgot to mention I heard that touching the lights on fronds could burn the front so I most likely wouldn’t do that. Any opinions differ? 

[Allen]

12 minutes ago, Colin1110082 said:

Oh yeah and I forgot to mention I heard that touching the lights on fronds could burn the front so I most likely wouldn’t do that. Any opinions differ? 

Fine if they are mini's (Not C7 or C9) and on a temp controller.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUK_lYo5PTg

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

Well, a week into winter and my Majesty is heavily compromised. Cold isn't the only enemy for winter. A mild environment with poor air circulation seems to be a disastrous combination for Ravenea rivularis. Center spears are solid for now but with the majority of winter ahead, there's little doubt this will perish.

 

[Leelanau Palms]

Rooting for your Ravenea!

[ZPalms]

On 12/30/2023 at 7:06 PM, Las Palmas Norte said:

Well, a week into winter and my Majesty is heavily compromised. Cold isn't the only enemy for winter. A mild environment with poor air circulation seems to be a disastrous combination for Ravenea rivularis. Center spears are solid for now but with the majority of winter ahead, there's little doubt this will perish.

 

Hows it doing

[Las Palmas Norte]

24 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

Hows it doing

I'll let you know when I get the courage to open the shelter. It's was closed up during the recent cold snap. I believe it can only get worse from here on out or at absolute best, remain the same.

[ZPalms]

29 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

I'll let you know when I get the courage to open the shelter. It's was closed up during the recent cold snap. I believe it can only get worse from here on out or at absolute best, remain the same.

Hoping it makes it! I've been thinking if I wanna throw a majesty in ground in the spring and protect it in the winter even if it defoliates