King or Royal Palm in Zone 9b

[mxcolin]

I really want to grow a single trunk King or Royal Palm here in zone 9b. Or more accurately I want a single trunk palm with a green crown shaft. I would grow it in a large container in an area with lots of sun. Winter here rarely goes below 30F. Maybe a few hours per year at most. So what's my best bet? Every King Palm I see seems to be multi-trunk? What would you guys suggest? To be honest I get confused between which is which.

The photo below is from Hawaii, I'm under no illusions I can get something like this :-)

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Colin

Edited January 8, 2020 by mxcolin

[James B]

Both are great palms but in Sacramento you have a lot of rain in winter compared to Southern California and you get a little colder. Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana is generally a little tougher when comes to cold tolerance but when it gets wet during winter there is always the potential for pink rot. However they are easy to replace and grow fast. Royals unless they are mature are more cold sensitive and have different needs around sunlight. Royals need full sun to mostly sun whereas Kings grow better in partial sun or filtered light. A large well grown King is a beautiful impressive palm that is super easy from a clean up perspective. Royals are bigger and more impressive but many members on here can share how heavy their leaves are when they fall and can damage cars, etc when mature.

[RedRabbit]

I suggest trying both. 

[Jeff985]

if you’re wanting something to grow in container as mentioned, I’d go with something slower growing. Kentopsis oliviformis comes to mind. 

[awkonradi]

I think Dypsis decipiens is a beautiful crownshaft palm that is proven to grow well in CA's central valley.

[mxcolin]

Anyone know which species have multiple trunks? I don't want a multi trunk palm in this instance.

[Ben in Norcal]

You only have a shot at a King.  That should be fine.  I usually recommend trying things, but I've done that for you - I'm quite a bit west, and warmer than you.  No shot with royals here.  It's not the cold - it's the cool wet.  They pack it in without fail by end of winter - at least outside of my greenhouse.

[Ben in Norcal]

Just now, mxcolin said:

Anyone know which species have multiple trunks? I don't want a multi trunk palm in this instance.

Not sure what you mean - kings are a single trunk palm.  They are often planted as multiples, so you just need to either get a single, or cut out the smaller palms from a big box special.

[mxcolin]

3 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Not sure what you mean - kings are a single trunk palm.  They are often planted as multiples, so you just need to either get a single, or cut out the smaller palms from a big box special.

Thank you. I wasn't sure as whenever I see them here they come as multiple trunks.

[Ben in Norcal]

1 minute ago, mxcolin said:

Thank you. I wasn't sure as whenever I see them here they come as multiple trunks.

Don't try and separate them, by the way - they are very root sensitive.  Just cut trunks you don't want out at soil level.

[Jim in Los Altos]

I concur with Ben about not bothering with a Royal palm. I have one in my Bay Area garden (Roystonea borinquena) and it grows one new leaf per year maybe two, is green and healthy looking but I'm a 10a here. They just need more consistent nearly year round warmth to grow well. King palms on the other hand are just about the fastest growing crownshaft palms for California. Young ones are very sensitive to frost especially if temperatures fall below 32° F and are less hardy when in pots than in the ground. The soil temperatures are much less stable in pots. Consistently hot dry summer weather will take its toll if placed in full sun. Locate one in a partially shaded area for best appearance. And a big one...water water water. You can't over water them. The wetter the better. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Jim in Los Altos

[enigma99]

Yup, I am in Rocklin and I got one to live almost 2 years before dying. My soil does not drain at all. Literally dig a hole, fill it with 1 gal of water and it will be there a month later. So for me, Royals will never work. Maybe if you had excellent, and I mean excellent drainage and a nice southern sunny spot, could be worth a try. 

But then you would need a 24” box, so you need to go to San Diego and haul one up yourself. Then plant it in the Spring so it can get established. 
 

I suspect Sacramento’s foggy winters might do it in though. Even where I am at, it’s generally sunny and Sacramento is often freezing cold with fog. I think the only place a royal would work in the Sacramento area is Newcastle.  Zone 10

[GottmitAlex]

1 hour ago, enigma99 said:

Yup, I am in Rocklin and I got one to live almost 2 years before dying. My soil does not drain at all. Literally dig a hole, fill it with 1 gal of water and it will be there a month later. So for me, Royals will never work. Maybe if you had excellent, and I mean excellent drainage and a nice southern sunny spot, could be worth a try. 

But then you would need a 24” box, so you need to go to San Diego and haul one up yourself. Then plant it in the Spring so it can get established. 
 

I suspect Sacramento’s foggy winters might do it in though. Even where I am at, it’s generally sunny and Sacramento is often freezing cold with fog. I think the only place a royal would work in the Sacramento area is Newcastle.  Zone 10

Can you tell us more about Newcastle, California?

[enigma99]

1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

Can you tell us more about Newcastle, California?

It's NE of Sacramento in the foothills. About 800-900' elevation. All the wunderground stations there do much better than the valley due to the elevation and it's on a southern facing slope. Also it's high enough to get above the cold inversion layer of the valley in the winter so the days too better too. It's about 15 minutes NE of me. When I get down to winter lows of around 29-30, it always performs much better. 

Some stations are offline but here's one in the area. Geography can make a huge difference and the other side of town gets colder. So I guess you want to be on a southern slope with some elevation but not on the bottom of the slope

https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KCANEWCA16/graph/2020-01-31/2020-01-31/monthly

 

[mxcolin]

19 hours ago, enigma99 said:

Yup, I am in Rocklin and I got one to live almost 2 years before dying. My soil does not drain at all. Literally dig a hole, fill it with 1 gal of water and it will be there a month later. So for me, Royals will never work. Maybe if you had excellent, and I mean excellent drainage and a nice southern sunny spot, could be worth a try. 

But then you would need a 24” box, so you need to go to San Diego and haul one up yourself. Then plant it in the Spring so it can get established. 
 

I suspect Sacramento’s foggy winters might do it in though. Even where I am at, it’s generally sunny and Sacramento is often freezing cold with fog. I think the only place a royal would work in the Sacramento area is Newcastle.  Zone 10

I live in Rocklin too actually, I just added Sacramento as the closest city and I agree it's definitely a little sunnier than Sac. I'm surprised Newcastle gets any warmer winters and certainly surprised it's enough to be zone 10. Auburn for example is a little colder than Rocklin in the winter, but I see what you're saying about geography. I'm going to try with a King Palm (Alexander Palm) and see how I make out. I will rig the container to have good drainage and water heavily in summer.

Thanks again!!!

[enigma99]

41 minutes ago, mxcolin said:

I live in Rocklin too actually, I just added Sacramento as the closest city and I agree it's definitely a little sunnier than Sac. I'm surprised Newcastle gets any warmer winters and certainly surprised it's enough to be zone 10. Auburn for example is a little colder than Rocklin in the winter, but I see what you're saying about geography. I'm going to try with a King Palm (Alexander Palm) and see how I make out. I will rig the container to have good drainage and water heavily in summer.

Thanks again!!!

Don’t worry about drainage! Put em in the ground. Archies don’t mind soggy ground even in the winter.

This is an alexandrae var beatrice. So any kind of archontophoenix, if it’s purpurea, maxima etc should be fine

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 hour ago, mxcolin said:

I live in Rocklin too actually, I just added Sacramento as the closest city and I agree it's definitely a little sunnier than Sac. I'm surprised Newcastle gets any warmer winters and certainly surprised it's enough to be zone 10. Auburn for example is a little colder than Rocklin in the winter, but I see what you're saying about geography. I'm going to try with a King Palm (Alexander Palm) and see how I make out. I will rig the container to have good drainage and water heavily in summer.

Thanks again!!!

Good drainage for Archontophoenix is actually detrimental. The soggier the soil the better, even in winter. I have groves of mature ones here and some are growing IN my large pond and love it. The ones in the most draining soil in my garden are hard to keep watered properly. They need lots of water continuously to look their best.,

[enigma99]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Good drainage for Archontophoenix is actually detrimental. The soggier the soil the better, even in winter. I have groves of mature ones here and some are growing IN my large pond and love it. The ones in the most draining soil in my garden are hard to keep watered properly. They need lots of water continuously to look their best.,

True that

[mlovecan]

My Roystonea princeps is much more cold tolerant than my regia. On top of that it takes up much less space and is an absolute rocket!

I worked in the Sacramento one year and recall a Holiday Inn not far from where I was staying that had a variety of crownshaft palms. I was a bit surprised as there more than a couple frosty January mornings that year (1993).

[Jim in Los Altos]

Based on the information below, Rocklin and Newcastle are pretty similar on average. They both look too chilly for Roystonea however. Archontophoenix should do pretty well in a partially shaded area. 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Jim in Los Altos

[daxin]

Jim, have you seen this Royal in San Jose a few minutes away from David and Eric’s garden?  I went to see it two years ago after they told me about it during our chapter’s tour at their place. It’s quite impressive and is obviously in an ideal spot, being so close to the house with south facing wall and high porch. Would Sacramento have a chance if someone copy this setup? 
 

 

 

street view from iPhone maps 

 

[James B]

While I’m listed as 9B I’m really more 10a but being inland 50 miles at 1600 feet elevation I can share that my Royals go pretty much completely dormant in winter. I’m getting no spear growth out of mine right now. Whereas with all of my Archontophoenix they are still growing slowly through January. Hopefully come spring my royals will wake back up as I am pushing their range here. In the summer months they do grow a bit faster than Kings. That said the Maximas I have do a decent job of keeping pace somewhat in the summer heat.

[GottmitAlex]

On 1/20/2020 at 12:25 AM, daxin said:

Jim, have you seen this Royal in San Jose a few minutes away from David and Eric’s garden?  I went to see it two years ago after they told me about it during our chapter’s tour at their place. It’s quite impressive and is obviously in an ideal spot, being so close to the house with south facing wall and high porch. Would Sacramento have a chance if someone copy this setup? 
 

 

 

street view from iPhone maps 

 

Lol. It has the same setup as the Corona coco.  Incredible. Who would have thought? 

IMO it only needs fertilizer to stand out and flourish.

[Silas_Sancona]

On 1/20/2020 at 1:25 AM, daxin said:

Jim, have you seen this Royal in San Jose a few minutes away from David and Eric’s garden?  I went to see it two years ago after they told me about it during our chapter’s tour at their place. It’s quite impressive and is obviously in an ideal spot, being so close to the house with south facing wall and high porch. Would Sacramento have a chance if someone copy this setup? 
 

 

 

street view from iPhone maps 

 

@daxin This particular Royal has been here since at least 2012 ( is in my old neighborhood where i grew up ) when it was brought to my attention by the same sources.. There are apparently a few others planted somewhere on the East side of town as well.. Though i could not find them before i left San Jo' in 2013.  A well established grower located near Gilroy may have planted all of them.. Or at least those on the east side. 
 

[Jim in Los Altos]

From the looks of it, this Royal Palm is not being treated well. Looks like no summer irrigation is taking its toll. Too bad too because these are very rarely seen in San Jose. 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Jim in Los Altos

[Padraic]

Touch for California bay area if there is water restriction enforce. They seem to let the lawn go in the picture. 

Eventually in the Southwest, water is an issue too. We are using more water than nature is providing.

[Jim in Los Altos]

8 hours ago, Padraic said:

Touch for California bay area if there is water restriction enforce. They seem to let the lawn go in the picture. 

Eventually in the Southwest, water is an issue too. We are using more water than nature is providing.

There are no water restrictions to speak of here in the South Bay Area. Some home owners just don’t care. The house next door to me has renters and they decided to save money and turn off the irrigation. I contacted the owner, who is a friend, and told her that the garden was all drying up. It has lots of palms too. She got on it right away and the property manager paid them a visit. The landscape is greening back up as we speak. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Jim in Los Altos

[Ben in Norcal]

10 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

There are no water restrictions to speak of here in the South Bay Area. Some home owners just don’t care. The house next door to me has renters and they decided to save money and turn off the irrigation. I contacted the owner, who is a friend, and told her that the garden was all drying up. It has lots of palms too. She got on it right away and the property manager paid them a visit. The landscape is greening back up as we speak. 

I'm not aware of any restrictions anywhere in Norcal.

Now, grass is difficult keep looking nice in the East Bay regardless of water - just so hot and dry.  After seeing your lawn, Jim, years back - one of the best decisions I made was to pull that up and put the turf in.  Even with all of the water I dump on thousands of palms on 1/3 of an acre, I still spend less than I did on one small lawn!

[Jim in Los Altos]

2 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I'm not aware of any restrictions anywhere in Norcal.

Now, grass is difficult keep looking nice in the East Bay regardless of water - just so hot and dry.  After seeing your lawn, Jim, years back - one of the best decisions I made was to pull that up and put the turf in.  Even with all of the water I dump on thousands of palms on 1/3 of an acre, I still spend less than I did on one small lawn!

I’ll never go back to natural turf again. My problem wasn’t dry heat though. It was way too much shade. Even at that, the grass needed too much water. The other plus with artificial turf is that my dogs totally prefer it over real grass. Most dogs seem to. 

[enigma99]

I am needing to do the same here. Ben and Jim you both have artificial grass and it looks great. Any recommendations on brands of turf and if you can DIY?

[Jim in Los Altos]

10 hours ago, enigma99 said:

I am needing to do the same here. Ben and Jim you both have artificial grass and it looks great. Any recommendations on brands of turf and if you can DIY?

We’ve installed lots of these turf lawns over the years. Global Syn Turf is what we’ve been happiest with. It’s a lot of work to install correctly but not impossible. I personally wouldn’t want to do it myself knowing how laborious it is even with several guys doing the work. 

 

[Ben in Norcal]

I'd have to agree with Jim - there is a lot of prep work involved.  And, if you are dealing with seams (as I was), you want a pro to make sure it's blended in.

[Trev]

On 1/8/2020 at 8:57 PM, enigma99 said:

Yup, I am in Rocklin and I got one to live almost 2 years before dying. My soil does not drain at all. Literally dig a hole, fill it with 1 gal of water and it will be there a month later. So for me, Royals will never work. Maybe if you had excellent, and I mean excellent drainage and a nice southern sunny spot, could be worth a try. 

But then you would need a 24” box, so you need to go to San Diego and haul one up yourself. Then plant it in the Spring so it can get established. 
 

I suspect Sacramento’s foggy winters might do it in though. Even where I am at, it’s generally sunny and Sacramento is often freezing cold with fog. I think the only place a royal would work in the Sacramento area is Newcastle.  Zone 10