Perlman's Loulu

[Big Eye]

Aloha everyone!

Anyone growing Pritchardia perlmanii? Seems like there's not much info out there besides Palmtalk and the pictures that you do find on Google are minimal. I've read that the leaf underside should be completely covered in lepidia? The handful that I've got growing doesn't seem to have any and they're well over a year old. At this point, they resemble a napaliensis that I have growing right next to them. Any info and pics would be greatly appreciated! I'll post some pics of mine that I have in pots when I get home.

Mahalo nui!

[Big Eye]

The weather has been really crazy the last couple days.  Rain, rain, rain.  The plants really seem to like it though, so I can't complain!  Anyway, here are some pics that I took this morning after the down pour stopped.  All perlmanii are on the blue skip and the other loulu goodies are on the stone wall.

[Big Eye]

Bonus pic I took this morning is of a hardyi that I'm trying in a Superoots Air-pot.  I've read good reviews about these pots BUT, they are very expensive.  Figured I'd give it a try.

[jimmyt]

@Big Eye  Can you explain a Superoots Air-pot to us Haoles?   Looks like a hollow mining bit!  BTW love your Pritchardia farm!

[Big Eye]

5 minutes ago, jimmyt said:

@Big Eye  Can you explain a Superoots Air-pot to us Haoles?   Looks like a hollow mining bit!  BTW love your Pritchardia farm!

Jimmy - These crazy looking pots have pukas (holes) from top to bottom and all around. Roots find their way to the holes where they will be air pruned causing it to die back and create secondary feeder roots which will help the plant uptake more nutrients.  The process keeps going thus creating a dense, fibrous root system. This is my first trying a palm in this pot. I've propagated hibiscus cuttings in these and I've been blown away by the results! I love these pots but as stated above, they are really expensive!

[Darold Petty]

I watched the video on the website,  they don't explain how to get the rootball out of the pot.  It seems that there must be a vertical seam in the wall ??  Did I miss this detail ?

[Stevetoad]

14 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

I watched the video on the website,  they don't explain how to get the rootball out of the pot.  It seems that there must be a vertical seam in the wall ??  Did I miss this detail ?

https://air-pot.com/nursery/the-system/assembly/

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, Big Eye said:

Jimmy - These crazy looking pots have pukas (holes) from top to bottom and all around. Roots find their way to the holes where they will be air pruned causing it to die back and create secondary feeder roots which will help the plant uptake more nutrients.  The process keeps going thus creating a dense, fibrous root system. This is my first trying a palm in this pot. I've propagated hibiscus cuttings in these and I've been blown away by the results! I love these pots but as stated above, they are really expensive!

While i haven't tried these exact pots.. yet..  a big fan of Root makers..  Like you said, plants i have grown in them have much denser root systems, Haven't noticed any issues with circling, and the plants respond better when watered /fed.. even a couple seedling things in 1gals.. and can be kept in the pots longer compared to standard cans.. ( or i've just been lucky so far, lol ) Wish the company would make/ sell 15-40+Gal sized Root makers.. though i guess that's what the root builders would be for. Pricey yes, but worth it.

[Darold Petty]

Stevetoad,  Thanks !  

[Big Eye]

22 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

I watched the video on the website,  they don't explain how to get the rootball out of the pot.  It seems that there must be a vertical seam in the wall ??  Did I miss this detail ?

Darold - Yes, you are correct. The design makes it very easy to remove the pot which leads to little to no root disturbance while repotting or putting it into the ground.

[Big Eye]

6 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

While i haven't tried these exact pots.. yet..  a big fan of Root makers..  Like you said, plants i have grown in them have much denser root systems, Haven't noticed any issues with circling, and the plants respond better when watered /fed.. even a couple seedling things in 1gals.. and can be kept in the pots longer compared to standard cans.. ( or i've just been lucky so far, lol ) Wish the company would make/ sell 15-40+Gal sized Root makers.. though i guess that's what the root builders would be for. Pricey yes, but worth it.

Silas - Agreed! My plan is to slowly "weed" out (no pun intended) the normal black nursery pots with air-pots as time moves on. I have in NO way a green thumb but these air-pots are starting to make it look like it's at least turning some-what green!

Question on the Root Makers... I was so close to buying some of their 6"(?) square pots as they looked really durable but opted out because the base was so narrow. Was afraid that they would be falling over left and right with the smallest amount of wind. Thanks in advance!

[Silas_Sancona]

Just now, Big Eye said:

Silas - Agreed! My plan is to slowly "weed" out (no pun intended) the normal black nursery pots with air-pots as time moves on. I have in NO way a green thumb but these air-pots are starting to make it look like it's at least turning some-what green!

Question on the Root Makers... I was so close to buying some of their 6"(?) square pots as they looked really durable but opted out because the base was so narrow. Was afraid that they would be falling over left and right with the smallest amount of wind. Thanks in advance!

Haven't tried the squares yet but would purchase one of the sturdier trays to keep them from falling over.. or build one,  then transfer to 1gals as soon as the fill out the 6" 'ers..  The Root makers i've used were initially retrieved from piles of used pots customers would return at a couple nurseries i'd worked at in the past.. Want more.. A lot more, lol..  The bigger pots.. ( ..or Root builders ) i plan on utilizing for specimen plants i use as cutting or seed sources.. Most things i plan on growing to sell/ trade will be 25 gal or less size-wise..

[Big Eye]

59 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Haven't tried the squares yet but would purchase one of the sturdier trays to keep them from falling over.. or build one,  then transfer to 1gals as soon as the fill out the 6" 'ers..  The Root makers i've used were initially retrieved from piles of used pots customers would return at a couple nurseries i'd worked at in the past.. Want more.. A lot more, lol..  The bigger pots.. ( ..or Root builders ) i plan on utilizing for specimen plants i use as cutting or seed sources.. Most things i plan on growing to sell/ trade will be 25 gal or less size-wise..

Awesome! I was able to score a 1 gal and 2 gal air-pots for free that were used as well. I'm in the same boat as you. I need more! Don't think Air-pots make anything bigger than a 7 gal. Unless you custom make them but I think they cater more to commercial growers at that point. 

[Big Eye]

This post was probably the most helpful that I could find on the internet regarding perlmanii/napaliensis/limahuliensis. Anyone know if lepidia shows up depending where the palm is grown? Both the perlmanii and napaliensis do not show any yet leaf blades look almost identical. Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

10 minutes ago, Big Eye said:

 Don't think Air-pots make anything bigger than a 7 gal. Unless you custom make them but I think they cater more to commercial growers at that point. 

True..  Not sure why they stop making them at 7gal size though.. Guess that's the size you'd start using the builders on..    While a seriously tedious idea, have considered sacrificing a couple larger, sturdy 15gal pots and experiment with creating something similar, maybe using a drill to punch the holes..

[Darold Petty]

Here is the video I watched, from the USA distributor,  it does not include assembly ! 

Seeing hundreds of them in use at Kew Gardens was sufficient persuasion for me to order a few !

https://air-pot.us/hydro/

 

 

[Big Eye]

23 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

Here is the video I watched, from the USA distributor,  it does not include assembly ! 

Seeing hundreds of them in use at Kew Gardens was sufficient persuasion for me to order a few !

https://air-pot.us/hydro/

 

 

Good to hear! I ordered mine through Amazon since shipping to Hawaii is so expensive! Didn't feel like paying $50+ shipping for 6 pots  

Let us know how you like the pots!

[Darold Petty]

I ordered 5 #5 and 2 #12, the shipping was $18.52 from Salem, Oregon.

Big Eye, your palms look great !  I'm sorry I can't add any info about them.    I struggle to grow this genus in my cold microclimate, so far I have P. minor and P. unk. 

[Big Eye]

40 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

I ordered 5 #5 and 2 #12, the shipping was $18.52 from Salem, Oregon.

Big Eye, your palms look great !  I'm sorry I can't add any info about them.    I struggle to grow this genus in my cold microclimate, so far I have P. minor and P. unk. 

The shipping doesn't look too bad to Hawaii from this website. Mine calculated to $23.05. Not too far off from yours. I just picked up 12 #5 and it came out to $168 and some change  The one thing I've read about these pots is that it's a little smaller than you'd think. The sizes they state on the website is "equivalent" to its gallon counter parts. I can see the differences in size but it's not drastic. Potting up from a 1 gal into the #5 is perfect as that's what I did with the hardyi.

Also, thank you for the kind words on the loulu. All props goes to Jeff for growing amazing palms that are easy to care for!

[Big Eye]

@Darold Petty Do you have pics you'd like to post of your minor? I picked up an unknown from Jeff and he said it's most likely minor or martii. It's a very nice looking palm none the less. I'll get a pic of it later today and post it up. Thanks!

[quaman58]

I always shake my head at the speed of growth in Hawaii compared to S. California. Your perlmaniis look great! I have a couple, one of which is about 5 years old and not much bigger than yours. It's somewhat unique in that it's definitely a "dwarf" species, being not much bigger in stature than P. Minor. It's leaves are the most deeply divided of any Pritchardia I have. The leaf undersides are covered completely in lepidia, but it is not dense. Nothing like minor, arecina or viscosa. Other than that, it happily plugs away in a relatively exposed area, not bothered by cold or full sun like some species in the genus. Thanks for sharing!

[daxin]

Saw these air pots at the back GHs in Kew last May. Thank you for refreshing my memory and it’s time for some experimentations. Would these work for cycads too? Tap roots might just be overrated 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tracy]

19 hours ago, Big Eye said:

Anyone know if lepidia shows up depending where the palm is grown? Both the perlmanii and napaliensis do not show any yet leaf blades look almost identical. Thoughts?

I wouldn't think that you would see variations in the presence or amount of lepidia varying based on where the Pritchardia are grown.  I have something I acquired as P martii which has never shown any significant amount of lepidia except a little on the peripheral undersides of the leaves.  I suspect it isn't a martii after waiting 5 years for more to appear.  I also have something acquired as P flynnii which was covered in lepidia even as a small 1 gallon.  P bakeri has a good deal of lepidia at a smaller size than the palms you pictured as well.  While I've given examples of other species with lepidia at different sizes than the species you asked about, I hope its insightful.  It will be interesting to see if your P perlmanii starts showing some lepidia soon or if perhaps it turns out to be something different as my "P martii" now "unknown species" is.  I have heard of others here in Southern California who have Pritchardia which don't match what they acquired them as. 

On another note, you will probably find out much faster than we would here in my climate with your great growth rate.  Looking forward to seeing updates on these as they get bigger!

Pritchardia flynnii leaves from two angles: the side view of a leaf with underlighting showing how dense the lepidia is and a shot looking down on another leaf.

[Silas_Sancona]

9 hours ago, daxin said:

Saw these air pots at the back GHs in Kew last May. Thank you for refreshing my memory and it’s time for some experimentations. Would these work for cycads too? Tap roots might just be overrated 

 

 

 

 

 

From the pictures, some of these might be too shallow.. except maybe? for younger Cycads.. That said, watched a couple videos yesterday of people demonstrating how to construct DIY Air Pots using a product used in exterior wall / Basement drainage construction called J DRAIN which is made of the same basic material as the walls for Air Pots / Root Builders but supposedly comes in 4' X 50' rolls. Only things someone making their own pots might have to do is construct the bases/ punch out holes.. Seems pretty straight forward, using a drill to drill out the holes in the ploy sheets, cutting out sections of a sturdy gauge 1/4th inch Hardware Cloth/ Mesh, maybe add a piece of window screen ( to further help keep soil from washing out ) for the bases, and using heavy duty zip ties to close off the pots.. J DRAIN400XL looks like the more durable " Heavy Duty"  option in the company's line of products..

In one of the videos, the person was making them for transplanting Grape Vine cuttings and made several of what looked like 14- maybe 20" tall tubes that i'd imagine would be great for stuff that forms a tap root. Will be looking into this idea myself later.. Might be cheaper than purchasing individual pots..

[Big Eye]

9 hours ago, quaman58 said:

I always shake my head at the speed of growth in Hawaii compared to S. California. Your perlmaniis look great! I have a couple, one of which is about 5 years old and not much bigger than yours. It's somewhat unique in that it's definitely a "dwarf" species, being not much bigger in stature than P. Minor. It's leaves are the most deeply divided of any Pritchardia I have. The leaf undersides are covered completely in lepidia, but it is not dense. Nothing like minor, arecina or viscosa. Other than that, it happily plugs away in a relatively exposed area, not bothered by cold or full sun like some species in the genus. Thanks for sharing!

Mahalo for your input! Always grateful to get insight from growers that have been doing this for some time since I'm still so green. I'm actually surprised all these loulu are still alive today  Maybe it's as you stated, growing in Hawaii might be the reason. Anyway, as stated in a previous reply, at this point, the perlmanii are not showing any lepidia and resembling the napaliensis in the background. Either way, they are ALL super nice and growing very well. The hardyi and bakeri on the other hand have that classic lepidia that we all know and love. As always, thanks for your input and I'd love to see some pics of your perlmanii if you would like to share!

[Big Eye]

9 hours ago, daxin said:

Saw these air pots at the back GHs in Kew last May. Thank you for refreshing my memory and it’s time for some experimentations. Would these work for cycads too? Tap roots might just be overrated 

 

 

 

 

 

I would pull the trigger most definitely! I have some hibiscus growing like crazy in a 1 gal equivalent (orange base) and it's about 3 feet tall at the moment. The website claims that you can grow plants to roughly 4' in a 1 gal if I remember correctly (do not quote me on that though). I've been impressed so far with them!

[Big Eye]

1 hour ago, Tracy said:

I wouldn't think that you would see variations in the presence or amount of lepidia varying based on where the Pritchardia are grown.  I have something I acquired as P martii which has never shown any significant amount of lepidia except a little on the peripheral undersides of the leaves.  I suspect it isn't a martii after waiting 5 years for more to appear.  I also have something acquired as P flynnii which was covered in lepidia even as a small 1 gallon.  P bakeri has a good deal of lepidia at a smaller size than the palms you pictured as well.  While I've given examples of other species with lepidia at different sizes than the species you asked about, I hope its insightful.  It will be interesting to see if your P perlmanii starts showing some lepidia soon or if perhaps it turns out to be something different as my "P martii" now "unknown species" is.  I have heard of others here in Southern California who have Pritchardia which don't match what they acquired them as. 

On another note, you will probably find out much faster than we would here in my climate with your great growth rate.  Looking forward to seeing updates on these as they get bigger!

Pritchardia flynnii leaves from two angles: the side view of a leaf with underlighting showing how dense the lepidia is and a shot looking down on another leaf.

Wow, very nicely grown flynnii! How big was it when you planted it out? Hopefully one day I can come across one to add to the collection. The undersides are so golden! As for me, knowing these loulu came from Jeff is all the assurance I need. I hope in time that the perlmanii will show its true colors. I've got about 11 species growing right now and it's nice to see and watch them all growing differently and at their own pace. They seem to be loving the heavy rains we're been having these last couple days/weeks. Again, thanks for your input! It's always appreciated!

[Big Eye]

Here's a pic of some other younger goodies that's growing under a grow light in my garage. I don't know if this is how the setup is supposed to look like but the plants don't seem to be complaining. Hoping the light isn't too far away causing them to stretch for the light. What do you all think? Thanks for looking!

[Big Eye]

Sorry if the pic is hard to see due to the light color. This is the first time taking pics of them under the light.

[Tracy]

5 hours ago, Big Eye said:

flynnii! How big was it when you planted it out?

This is what it looked like 2 days after I bought it on 3/19/2016 (wheelin' and dealin' in front of Jason's old house in Fallbrook).  I planted it out within a couple of weeks.

[NOT A TA]

46 minutes ago, Big Eye said:

What do you all think?

1. Great looking plants!!!

2. I'm amazed no one drives up with a truck and helps themselves to some of your plants by the street!

3. I'm sure I'm not the only one curious as to why you're using grow lights in your garage in Hawaii? Too cool during winter?

[Big Eye]

48 minutes ago, Tracy said:

This is what it looked like 2 days after I bought it on 3/19/2016 (wheelin' and dealin' in front of Jason's old house in Fallbrook).  I planted it out within a couple of weeks.

Awesome! Is that from a 5 gal? I'm so tempted to drop some in the ground at my lot but I know I'll regret since the house isn't even up yet! Also, I hope that they'll be able to handle the weather with no canopy as they'll be the only palms that are planted on the property. 

[Big Eye]

44 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

1. Great looking plants!!!

2. I'm amazed no one drives up with a truck and helps themselves to some of your plants by the street!

3. I'm sure I'm not the only one curious as to why you're using grow lights in your garage in Hawaii? Too cool during winter?

1. Thank you!

2. You know, I was just thinking about this the other day. If people knew what kinds of Pritchardia they were, they'd be gone in a heartbeat! Maybe I should move them to a more discreet location 

3. I was told by Jeff (Floribunda) to slowly acclimate these specific palms before I throw them out to Mother Nature since they were in the greenhouse up until now. Figured I'd try them under the light to see how they'd fare and to my surprise, they're doing pretty good!

[Darold Petty]

Keenan;  Here are two images of the P. minor.  I can't really get a better photo because the palm is severely deficient in Potassium, (I obtained it in this poor condition)

  Here are the upper and lower surfaces.  The  third image is the underside of the petiole. 

[Matt in OC]

That looks like my P. minor. Ron says that the telltale is the near-complete circle at the base of the leaf where it meets the petiole. 

[Darold Petty]

Matt;  Thanks, I will try for a more direct image tomorrow.  I need corroboration that this is truly a P. minor.

[Big Eye]

1 hour ago, Darold Petty said:

Keenan;  Here are two images of the P. minor.  I can't really get a better photo because the palm is severely deficient in Potassium, (I obtained it in this poor condition)

  Here are the upper and lower surfaces.  The  third image is the underside of the petiole. 

Darold, thanks for posting a pic! I failed to get one of the unknown today before the sun went down but it looks very similar to yours. The leaf doesn't look as circular though. More of a "V" shape but the lepidia almost mirrors yours. Maybe more of a bronze-ish color. I'll try and get a photo of it tomorrow. What do you use to rectify the K deficiency? I've been seeing yellowing on some of mine and trying to figure out what best to use. Thanks again for posting! 

[Big Eye]

55 minutes ago, Matt in OC said:

That looks like my P. minor. Ron says that the telltale is the near-complete circle at the base of the leaf where it meets the petiole. 

Matt, thanks for posting! I need to take a better look at the base of the leaf to see if it resembles the one you posted. Do you know if the lepidia on minor is strictly brownish or can it be white as well? Thanks again for chiming in!

[Matt in OC]

@Big Eye I’m no expert but I’ll say mine (which I think is minor) has a gold to white color depending on the lighting. 

[realarch]

Boy Matt, the underside of those leaves are beautiful.

Tim