self shedding palms, less work

[sonoranfans]

Interesting topic in "the struggle is real"  thread showing how the landscape work in growing  a palm garden increases as it matures.  One way to reduce the work load is to plant self shedding palms, palms that drop their leaves.  this means less time on a ladder risking your life as you get older.   I had some thoughts about this years ago and tried to get a lot of self shedding palms that could survive in my 9B zone.  Now my yard is a warm 9B, 20 year low is 28F in this area.  So I need self shedding that will survive 28F.  My most cold hardy self shedding palm is sabal causiarum, its good to 8b and sheds as an adult.  Bismarckia self shed and are good to about 24F(+/-).  I had some bismarckia  survive 21F for a brief period in the desert(1/4 was killed).  A third level of cold hardiness is sabal mauritiiformis, copernicia fallaense and baileyana, all good to perhaps 26F.  Next up are my crownshafts, kentiopsis Oliviformis, satakentia Liukensis, and big royals are also good to 27-28F.  Lots of tropicals self shed but how about palms that can take subtropical or mediterranean conditions and self clean?  

[GottmitAlex]

Great topic. In fact, the main reason I "edited" my 5 filibustas was precisely that:

I was using a ladder to trim off the old and soon to be dead fronds. It got to be a juggling act. I told mein Frau, "this is going to he an untenable situation for us in 10 years". So we replaced them with cocos Nucifera and a b. alfredii.

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by GottmitAlex

[James B]

I agree for this reason and honestly I think crownshafted palms are prettier. Just a personal preference. I think this approach works but Rosytonea especially and to a smaller degree Archontophoenix once mature and over 25 feet will still require work to maintain. Ideally a 50lb Royal leaf can cause some chaos. As for Archontophoenix if you have a lot like I do, I have to have a plan for 5-7 years from now when my tallest are no longer 13-14 feet but 25 feet or more and dropping seed all over the yard. That said better than planting queens or Washingtonians as both are rockets and require far more work.

[sonoranfans]

James I an where you are going to be.  I have archontophoenix alexandre, and myolensis that are 20-25' overall.  they are easy, the leaves are lightweight, no problem.  the royals are more work dragging them but the important part of no ladder is fortunate as mine are over 35'.  One of my myolensis  flowered late summer this year but has not set seed, so the work is minimum on them.  Crownshafts in general are prettier in the trunks for sure.  But there aren't any crownshaft palms I know of that have the grey white glow of of bismarckia or the blue of copernicia hospita or blue/green of copernicia fallaense.  These lighter colors tend to glow after sunrise and near sunset like no crownshaft I know of.  All my really silver/blue tinted palms are fan palms.  I know there are some pinnate palms that have blue/grey color, but they are few and far between.  

[Phoenikakias]

15 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Interesting topic in "the struggle is real"  thread showing how the landscape work in growing  a palm garden increases as it matures.  One way to reduce the work load is to plant self shedding palms, palms that drop their leaves.  this means less time on a ladder risking your life as you get older.   I had some thoughts about this years ago and tried to get a lot of self shedding palms that could survive in my 9B zone.  Now my yard is a warm 9B, 20 year low is 28F in this area.  So I need self shedding that will survive 28F.  My most cold hardy self shedding palm is sabal causiarum, its good to 8b and sheds as an adult.  Bismarckia self shed and are good to about 24F(+/-).  I had some bismarckia  survive 21F for a brief period in the desert(1/4 was killed).  A third level of cold hardiness is sabal mauritiiformis, copernicia fallaense and baileyana, all good to perhaps 26F.  Next up are my crownshafts, kentiopsis Oliviformis, satakentia Liukensis, and big royals are also good to 27-28F.  Lots of tropicals self shed but how about palms that can take subtropical or mediterranean conditions and self clean?  

All Livistona specimens are self-shedding after a certain height attained.  Not sure whether L chinensis can be considered as temperate specimen, but it is so widespread outside the (sub)tropics, that we can call it at least  a naturalized temperate palm sp. Ravenea rivularis and Pritchardia spp are also self-shedding in the milder temperate regions.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Phoenikakias

[sonoranfans]

My livistona are not yet living up to that, none self shed at this time(one decora has 15' trunk).  Chinensis with only 5' trunk, is the one that shows a little smooth trunk at the bottom as if it may self shed some day.   My  mariae -with 8' trunk- is holding on to every leafbase/stem.    Perhaps these must get tall first before self shedding? 

[Phoenikakias]

4 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

My livistona are not yet living up to that, none self shed at this time(one decora has 15' trunk).  Chinensis with only 5' trunk, is the one that shows a little smooth trunk at the bottom as if it may self shed some day.   My  mariae -with 8' trunk- is holding on to every leafbase/stem.    Perhaps these must get tall first before self shedding? 

My L mariae, self shedding since at least three years ago.

 

[GottmitAlex]

Oops. I thought this thread was about self cleaning palms in general. It seems to be about self cleaning fan palms. 

My bad. Sorry.

[sonoranfans]

no Alex its about lower maintenance palms that self shed.  Fans are less common self shedders and also more cold hardy, but I would never give up my crownshafted palms.    I have some areas that are entirely self shedding palms, I'd hate to be climbing ladders for trimming.

[greenthumb7]

Good afternoon everyone, I live in Casa Grande (zone9) and I've heard the king palm is one of the self cleaning palms we can grow here, (this palm I've heard is slated for zone 10, being I'm wondering if zone 9 would be too cold for the king palm???) It's pretty daunting to find all you want for our state, and florida gets kudos for palms. We're not chopped liver here when it comes to palms, being our state capital has a very mature thriving royal palm on it's grounds and looking very good, but I digress... anywho,  I'm hoping that somebody has any idea of how many self cleaning palms available we can grow here in arizona. And where to purchase them (preferably here in arizona) and without having to pay an arm and a leg for them. Also, if they'll tolerate some drought and all day sun (preferably if possible., thanks y'all. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

9 minutes ago, greenthumb7 said:

Good afternoon everyone, I live in Casa Grande (zone9) and I've heard the king palm is one of the self cleaning palms we can grow here, (this palm I've heard is slated for zone 10, being I'm wondering if zone 9 would be too cold for the king palm???) It's pretty daunting to find all you want for our state, and florida gets kudos for palms. We're not chopped liver here when it comes to palms, being our state capital has a very mature thriving royal palm on it's grounds and looking very good, but I digress... anywho,  I'm hoping that somebody has any idea of how many self cleaning palms available we can grow here in arizona. And where to purchase them (preferably here in arizona) and without having to pay an arm and a leg for them. Also, if they'll tolerate some drought and all day sun (preferably if possible., thanks y'all. 

Unfortunately I doubt King palms would tolerate your extreme heat and low humidity levels unless planted in deep shade but even then would suffer since they need copious amounts of water even in cool climates. 
 

If you can find Brahea edulis, they are self shedding with age. Slow growers but tolerate hot dry conditions. Mine sheds leaves on its own. 
 

[sonoranfans]

1 hour ago, greenthumb7 said:

Good afternoon everyone, I live in Casa Grande (zone9) and I've heard the king palm is one of the self cleaning palms we can grow here, (this palm I've heard is slated for zone 10, being I'm wondering if zone 9 would be too cold for the king palm???) It's pretty daunting to find all you want for our state, and florida gets kudos for palms. We're not chopped liver here when it comes to palms, being our state capital has a very mature thriving royal palm on it's grounds and looking very good, but I digress... anywho,  I'm hoping that somebody has any idea of how many self cleaning palms available we can grow here in arizona. And where to purchase them (preferably here in arizona) and without having to pay an arm and a leg for them. Also, if they'll tolerate some drought and all day sun (preferably if possible., thanks y'all. 

There are established palm gardens in arizona, the best information will be from an experienced local palmtalker.  Try a PM to "AZTropic" he has a diverse, well established garden in Mesa I think.

[sonoranfans]

On 1/20/2020 at 1:11 PM, Phoenikakias said:

My L mariae, self shedding since at least three years ago.

 

Am going to give an update here.  My livistona Decora is definitely self shedding now to nearly 20' of trunk.  It happened fast a couple years ago there was a rather fast dropping of leafbases.  Chinensis is also self cleaning after several feet of persistent boots near the crown.  Saribus is not shedding leafbases yet, @ 8' trunk with leafbases .

[aztropic]

1 hour ago, greenthumb7 said:

Good afternoon everyone, I live in Casa Grande (zone9) and I've heard the king palm is one of the self cleaning palms we can grow here, I'm hoping that somebody has any idea of how many self cleaning palms available we can grow here in arizona.

Yes,you can grow a king palm here in the Arizona desert; just not under the conditions you are probably thinking of. They will require a very shady area with plenty of water available,like under a covered patio,or inside the canopy of a larger tree that can provide the shade it requires here. I do grow them from seed here in Mesa, Arizona,but mainly sell them to buyers that want to plop the pot into a decorative ceramic container on their covered patio and call it good.🤷‍♂️ 

While there are several crown shafted (self trimming) species that will grow here, most are going to need protection from our afternoon summer sun to get established. East side of a house or other tall building or tree would be the best location to attempt growing the rarer,less hardy species for our area. Carpentaria, Pseudophoenix, and Roystonea, are some of the hardier crown shafted species of palms I have growing in my own outdoor garden. Pic shows a typical potted king palm I have available if that is your desire.

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona