Fabric Grow Pots for Seedlings, Rare Palms

[PalmatierMeg]

I grow a lot of palms and seedlings in pots and occasionally have problems with rot and damping off, esp. during extremes of cold and heat. No matter how carefully I strive for a well draining soil mix and watch how I water, I end up with frustrating numbers of losses. This is particularly frustrating when I lose a crop of germinated seedlings or a very rare palm like a Cham tuerck. This afternoon I've been reading up on fabric grow pots, which tout themselves as being much more plant friendly than plastic pots, esp. as they supposedly allow airflow to roots and better temperature regulation. I wonder whether I'd have better luck with a fabric grow bag for tiny seedlings or whether I should consider moving my small, rare palms to one. Can fabric grow bags be used for container garden plants or are they for temporary use only? Do grow bags promote better palm health and growth? Who else here has tried them? Will you offer reviews and opinions?

Below is a photo of a sample grow bag I copped off the internet.

[Ben in Norcal]

I can't comment too much on these, Meg - stopped using myself as I found them more difficult to move around.

Have you tried Subdue for your damping off problems?  A little goes a long way and I lose multiples less than I did before using it!

[Silas_Sancona]

Have almost pulled the trigger a couple times but have been reluctant after hearing some say you can end up damaging roots if whatever is grown in them is going to be transplanted later on. That said, have heard of people using them for container gardens, stuff like herbs or veggies. Imagine, like Ben mentions, they'd be a bit more of a challenge to move, especially bigger pots/bags. 

You might consider trialing some Root Makers to see how they work for you. Same basic idea as the bags, just a lot easier to handle. Haven't heard of any issues when transplanting out of them. No issues w/ stuff i've been growing in some either. Just wish the company offered sizes bigger than a 7gal. .

[NOT A TA]

I remember seeing a video someone posted a link to here on the forum where they were using grow bags for palms in another country.  The video was about something else but I noticed the grow bag use because I've considered testing them. I'll keep thinking and eventually I'll remember where I saw the video or what members were involved.

I've also been considering testing peat pots with a specific purpose in mind. Anyone have experience with peat pots for palm use? I've used peat pellets for dicot seed germination but no experience with them for palm seed, anyone tried them?

 

[Jeff985]

I have a beccariophoenix alfredii in one. I bought it like that and haven’t moved it into a pot because I kinda like it. So far I have no complaints. 

[NOT A TA]

Took me a while to remember but I think it was a video of @Kim and @bglvisiting @Kris rooftop container garden in India.

[John hovancsek]

I have had the same problems.  I found 1 gallon fabric pots that are over 3$ . I got a seedling licuala cordata in a 4 in plastic pot and started going down hill quick so I planted it in the fabric pot and is now doing great. You could see on the plant the damage and the new growth 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

I have started to use fabric grow pots for anything 1g or above specifically because there cheaper. Mostly because of shipping price (Amazon)The science behind them makes sense being more breathable,  but the jury is still out as I have only been using them for about 5 months now. I can say one thing so far I havent lost any palms in one yet =) 

Edited February 10, 2020 by OC2Texaspalmlvr
Added pic

[cisco]

I planted Howea forsteriana in an airpot pot 5 months ago. I use coco fiber, pine bark, crushed leca cravel and a bit of Seramis. So far so good. New leaf spear is growing. 

[Big Eye]

I, like @cisco went the Superoots Air-pot route. I believe they are double the price but felt that it was worth the price when the time comes for repotting/transplanting. I've had nothing but great results in terms of fibrous root growth with them. One of the bigger turn offs for me with the grow bag is that it sits directly on the ground. Compared to Air-pots, that have a lip on the bottom so it raises them off the ground about an inch or so for better air circulation. As mentioned earlier, however, are pricey. Here is a picture of one of my Pritchardia that was recently potted up from a 1 gal nursery pot to a 5 gal Air-pot. 

[RJ]

I would think pulling the palms and roots out of those would be difficult as the roots are going to want to embed in all those dimples and then terminate. Especially for root sensitive palms. Don't get me wrong I have used air pruning pots for deciduous trees for years but not sure how well they would work in this case.  When you grow deciduous plants in pots and the move them to the ground you usually want to release the roots by pulling the root ball apart manually by hand, otherwise down the road you end up with an unhappy tree. (usually stunted and prone to wind throw)  

Edited February 10, 2020 by RJ

[Big Eye]

14 minutes ago, RJ said:

I would think pulling the palms and roots out of those would be difficult as the roots are going to want to embed in all those dimples and then terminate. Especially for root sensitive palms. Don't get me wrong I have used air pruning pots for deciduous trees for years but not sure how well they would work in this case.  When you grow deciduous plants in pots and the move them to the ground you usually want to release the roots by pulling the root ball apart manually by hand, otherwise down the road you end up with an unhappy tree. (usually stunted and prone to wind throw)  

So far, I've never had the roots "stick" to the pot when removing them.  Here is an example of a fibrous root ball that I pulled from the internet as I don't have one of my plants available.

[Big Eye]

Oops. Forgot to add the pic. 

[RJ]

41 minutes ago, Big Eye said:

Oops. Forgot to add the pic. 

 

Thanks for the pic. Notice those roots are small fibrous roots. Palm roots tend to be much thicker which is why I think it *might* be an issue. I haven't tried these with palms so I'm certainly shooting for the hip here.  They may work just fine, and hope they do. I'm certainly curious to see your results in the future 

[Big Eye]

2 minutes ago, RJ said:

Thanks for the pic. Notice those roots are small fibrous roots. Palm roots tend to be much thicker which is why I think it *might* be an issue. I haven't tried these with palms so I'm certainly shooting for the hip here.  They may work just fine, and hope they do. I'm certainly curious to see your results in the future 

Thank you! You learn something new every day! 

[cisco]

10 hours ago, RJ said:

I would think pulling the palms and roots out of those would be difficult as the roots are going to want to embed in all those dimples and then terminate. Especially for root sensitive palms. Don't get me wrong I have used air pruning pots for deciduous trees for years but not sure how well they would work in this case.  When you grow deciduous plants in pots and the move them to the ground you usually want to release the roots by pulling the root ball apart manually by hand, otherwise down the road you end up with an unhappy tree. (usually stunted and prone to wind throw)  

It's very easy and safety way move the palm out of the airpot. You can just open those screws on the side of the pot. 

I don't know how long my H. forsteriana can do well in the airpot. Time will tell. I hope long time. I have 3 Kentias and I put the smallest in this test. He has second leaf opening after planting 5 mons ago. So far so good. I can't never put it in the ground because I live in Finland. 

 

[CTho]

20 hours ago, RJ said:

Especially for root sensitive palms. Don't get me wrong I have used air pruning pots for deciduous trees for years but not sure how well they would work in this case.

That has been my concern... I’ve read lots of statements like “a damage root dies all the way back to the trunk”, for example as justification for the tiny root balls when transplanting Sabal palmetto.  That doesn’t apply to most commonly grown plants - a damaged root branches out instead.

What actually happens when the growing tip of a palm root hits dry air or hot sun?  Does it stop there, die back, or branch?  Does the answer vary by species?

[Big Eye]

1 hour ago, CTho said:

That has been my concern... I’ve read lots of statements like “a damage root dies all the way back to the trunk”, for example as justification for the tiny root balls when transplanting Sabal palmetto.  That doesn’t apply to most commonly grown plants - a damaged root branches out instead.

What actually happens when the growing tip of a palm root hits dry air or hot sun?  Does it stop there, die back, or branch?  Does the answer vary by species?

Per the manufacturers, the tip dies back once it reaches the air holes, creating secondary feeder roots. The process continues as each root finds a hole and dies back creating a dense root ball with no circling. Not sure if I'm allowed to link videos, but there are many on YouTube showing the process as well as reviews. Once thing that I forgot to mention is that these pots dry out VERY quickly. What used to be once a week watering has become twice a week (also depending on the weather).

[CTho]

1 hour ago, Big Eye said:

Per the manufacturers, the tip dies back once it reaches the air holes, creating secondary feeder roots. The process continues as each root finds a hole and dies back creating a dense root ball with no circling. Not sure if I'm allowed to link videos, but there are many on YouTube showing the process as well as reviews. Once thing that I forgot to mention is that these pots dry out VERY quickly. What used to be once a week watering has become twice a week (also depending on the weather).

Has anyone tested that on palms like Bismarckia?  Let the first root hit air after 5-6” and see if you end up with more roots, or a dead palm?

I use grow bags on pepper plants, flowers, etc, but I’ve tried to protect my bizzie root tips so far.

[NOT A TA]

When I first saw the root pots I thought they were a great idea. Have never tested them myself though.

Roots will turn toward moisture so they'll veer away from the dry soil where the air holes are toward the damper soil where they are turned by the curvature of the pot material. If you look at the pic posted above you'll notice there's very little root where the air holes are, the "points" are dark circles of soil. This phenomenon is also what keeps roots from growing out the bottom and why an air gap below the pot is required. So really the growing tip of the roots shouldn't dry out & die because they turn on their own before hitting dry air.

[Fusca]

Here is my version of the air-pot as I haven't yet found a source for the j-drain materials.  Anyone think this would work the same?  I figured that I'd need to water much more often but I thought I'd give it a try on a few seedlings.

 

[Big Eye]

37 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

When I first saw the root pots I thought they were a great idea. Have never tested them myself though.

Roots will turn toward moisture so they'll veer away from the dry soil where the air holes are toward the damper soil where they are turned by the curvature of the pot material. If you look at the pic posted above you'll notice there's very little root where the air holes are, the "points" are dark circles of soil. This phenomenon is also what keeps roots from growing out the bottom and why an air gap below the pot is required. So really the growing tip of the roots shouldn't dry out & die because they turn on their own before hitting dry air.

I've also noticed with my mix (50/50 peat moss and black cinder) is that the cinder, being bigger and irregular in shape than the holes, block it so the roots will never be able to reach air. Not sure if this kind of defeats the purpose of the holes but I do see that there is no circling/girdling of the roots. Which is a good thing, I guess...

[www.dadluvsu.com]

I was never a fan of fabric grow bags...  never saw an advantage in comparison.  Meg, maybe try a heaping spoonful of Captan50 mixed liberally with whatever soil mixture?  That was my secret in Florida. ;-)

[Josue Diaz]

i always thought one purpose of fabric pots was that you could eliminate transplant shock by planting the plant,  pot and all. I use fabric pots for all of my fruit trees. When they are ready to go in the ground, they'll go in the ground with the fabric pot.

[NOT A TA]

5 hours ago, Fusca said:

Anyone think this would work the same? 

No, it won't work the same.