Butia x Jubaea from jungle music

[sonoranfans]

I am a big fan of jubaeas having lived and worked in CA for 7 years.  But back in florida at my house is a different environment so a pure jubaea wouldn't work.  About 5 years ago I bought this 15 gallon BxJ identified by Phil Bergman at his jungle music nursery and shipped it back to florida.   It was dug up in a field in NorCal where both species were present, supposedly a natural pollination where they identify hybrids by leaflet tips and other morphological measures.  I have always been a fan of the BxJ and JxB hybrids, but I chose the former for its expected better tolerance of my humid climate.   At first the palm was slow, years went by and I asked whether it was a humidity issue.  Mold spots appeared on leaflets near the ground and this may have stalled growth.  It grew some in the first few years, but just didn't have the width of crown I expected from  BxJ, so I was thinking maybe it was just a butia, hooks(as a 15 gallon) on the leaflet tips or not.  But over the last year and a half(in winter mostly) it started to grow faster and get wider and now it appears that it likely has jubaea blood in it.  Anyone else out there have a JxB?  

[RJ]

That's a splendid looking palm right there. It looks like it's going to be a fatty just like that monster in the background. On that note, just for the record. If you post a pic of a specific palm might I make a friendly suggestion.  DO NOT include a MASSIVE sabal causiarum in the background.  I can't decide what palm to look at, it's making me go cross eyed. 

[Fusca]

I have a BxJ F2 juvenile that is trying to go pinnate.  Grows perhaps a bit faster than a plain ole Butia.  Hope it will pick up speed like yours did once it gets some size to it.  Mine just got planted from a 3-gal size a few months ago.  I don't see any hooks and the leaf petioles are mostly purple.  I believe the parent palm in the second photo came is planted in north Louisiana and sustained zero winter damage compared to nearby Chamaerops, Sabal? and Phoenix.

 

 

[Fusca]

6 minutes ago, RJ said:

I can't decide what palm to look at

Indeed both are impressive palms!  

[buffy]

I've bought plenty of palms from Phil and company. I like them a lot. But I have a couple of BxJ and JxB I purchased from them that I suspect not to be what was sold. I could be wrong. 

[RJ]

5 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I have a BxJ F2 juvenile that is trying to go pinnate.  Grows perhaps a bit faster than a plain ole Butia.  Hope it will pick up speed like yours did once it gets some size to it.  Mine just got planted from a 3-gal size a few months ago.  I don't see any hooks and the leaf petioles are mostly purple.  I believe the parent palm in the second photo came is planted in north Louisiana and sustained zero winter damage compared to nearby Chamaerops, Sabal? and Phoenix.

 

 

 

 

In a discussion I had with Patric who has done many of these crosses. He said that hooks are not a definitive in regards to it being either a BXJ or JXB. 

[Stevetoad]

41 minutes ago, RJ said:

That's a splendid looking palm right there. It looks like it's going to be a fatty just like that monster in the background. On that note, just for the record. If you post a pic of a specific palm might I make a friendly suggestion.  DO NOT include a MASSIVE sabal causiarum in the background.  I can't decide what palm to look at, it's making me go cross eyed. 

haha thats exactly where my eye went too. Im a sucker for fatty fan palms.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

1 hour ago, RJ said:

DO NOT include a MASSIVE sabal causiarum in the background.  I can't decide what palm to look at, it's making me go cross eyed. 

Wow I saw the pic and was like nice hyyyyyybrid what the hell is that behind it haha oh yeah my Fav Sabal,  causiarum 

@Fusca that's an absolutely gorgeous palm I have always been a sucker for JxB. Even had one in Cali but was slower then a regular Jubaea if that's even possible haha 

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, RJ said:

In a discussion I had with Patric who has done many of these crosses. He said that hooks are not a definitive in regards to it being either a BXJ or JXB. 

Thanks Randy - good to know.  I don't doubt what I have but it will be a few years I'm sure before I start seeing some Jubaea traits.  I'm just hoping it will grow faster than a Butia - it's hard to tell at this stage.  I'm wondering how long it will take to flower as Butia tends to flower at a much smaller size than Jubaea.  The mother palm of my hybrid isn't much larger than my largest Butia which has yet to flower.   

[sonoranfans]

The biggest problem with that causiarum is that I cant get far away enough to take a clear pic of it without using a wide angle, and that makes it look skinnier than it is.  As things grew in and got big, its hard to get the pic without distorting it.  It is hoped that the BxJ grows into the space at a lower height, providing more dimension.  Big palms are great but if they get too big you will always be looking up when you are in the garden.  This BxJ also puts  the first pinnate palm in the front yard to join bismarckia, sabal uresana, copernicias alba(blue), fallaensis, and baileyana.   So if I take another angle, I might get something else in the background.  

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

So if I take another angle, I might get something else in the background. 

Oh the downside of a beautiful garden haha 

[Brett in Mission Viejo]

I have a Jungle Music 15 gallon hybrid I bought as a Butia x Jubaea F2 many years ago, maybe 15-17 years ago. It gets overhead sun only a few hours a day and is shaded in the morning and late afternoon. That is why the petioles are stretched. It has really been putting on girth the past several years, but not quite trunking. The trunk is about 4 feet across. It started seeding a couple of years ago, but the seeds are not viable:

[sonoranfans]

19 hours ago, buffy said:

I've bought plenty of palms from Phil and company. I like them a lot. But I have a couple of BxJ and JxB I purchased from them that I suspect not to be what was sold. I could be wrong. 

That may be, but I have bought a number of palms from Phil and they seemed to be good stock, but only this one hybrid.  There may be a wide genetic diversity or heterozygosity to the offspring of hybrids.   It takes long term breeding of a genetic to stabilize it, 1st or second gen are rarely stable.  For example, mule palms that weep and are plumose vs the erect ones that are not plumose.  I also think crosses can have some genetic duds.  I had a jubutiagrus that was just some kind of skinny mutant while others from the same source were much more robust.  I think that in general hybrids are going to be less predictable in terms of plant morphology.

[sonoranfans]

Wow Brett, that beast seems to have lots of jubaea blood, almost no recurve to the leaves and a monstrous trunk! 

[buffy]

1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

That may be, but I have bought a number of palms from Phil and they seemed to be good stock, but only this one hybrid.  There may be a wide genetic diversity or heterozygosity to the offspring of hybrids.   It takes long term breeding of a genetic to stabilize it, 1st or second gen are rarely stable.  For example, mule palms that weep and are plumose vs the erect ones that are not plumose.  I also think crosses can have some genetic duds.  I had a jubutiagrus that was just some kind of skinny mutant while others from the same source were much more robust.  I think that in general hybrids are going to be less predictable in terms of plant morphology.

True. True story. 

[TonyDFW]

Here is a 30 year old BxJ I got from Merrill Wilcox. It is in Dallas. 

[TonyDFW]

This is a Yatay x Jubea I got from Patric. 4 years in the ground. 

[JubaeaMan138]

Here’s my jubaea x butia or butia x jubaea ? Pretty either way always looks good . This came from @DoomsDave

[DoomsDave]

8 minutes ago, JubaeaMan138 said:

Here’s my jubaea x butia or butia x jubaea ? Pretty either way always looks good . This came from @DoomsDave

OBSCENITIES SCREAMED.

Thanks for rescuing it from my too-shaded place, and digging and loading it.

Do keep us apprised Palm Daddy!

 

[JubaeaMan138]

13 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

OBSCENITIES SCREAMED.

Thanks for rescuing it from my too-shaded place, and digging and loading it.

Do keep us apprised Palm Daddy!

 

Yeah this guy took a bit to get settled but now he seems to be blasting off . I’ll see if I can find a picture of when I first planted it I think it’s been 2 years

[DoomsDave]

2 hours ago, JubaeaMan138 said:

Yeah this guy took a bit to get settled but now he seems to be blasting off . I’ll see if I can find a picture of when I first planted it I think it’s been 2 years

It was quite the rasslin' match getting it into your truck. I recall you had a crane.

[JubaeaMan138]

Yes 1 ton motor picker mounted to my receiver hitch . Since then I’ve modified it . It bent the tubing that slips into the receiver pretty good . Now I have some outriggers mounted to it to stabilize it better