The tale of two Phoenix Dactylifera

[AZPalms]

So I’ve been debating with myself on these two so I’ll ask for your opinions. First, the smaller is on the edit list to be removed likely this year. Not sure if it’s a dud or what’s up. Plus it’s near the pool. My mistake. 

But back to the topic. These two date palms, both purchased on the same day as phoenix dactylifera in 15g pots have significantly different growth rates and characteristics. The smaller one reminds me of phoenix dactylifera however the larger (8-10ft spread) is probably 3 times as large and the same “age” planted. 2 years in the ground. Hybrid? Both planted same day, same soil, same water, both all day sun. Is it the mulch conserving water? 

 

Thoughts? 

[kinzyjr]

They can vary quite a bit in their growth habit, so no guarantee that they are hybrid or not hybrid in that regard.  I have four planted from the same seed batch, 3 at the same time with one being the "hot spare" I usually keep for my group plantings. 

One is over 15 feet to the top of its fronds and is completely solitary - almost as if it was taken from a grove and planted.  It looks and flowers just like the Medjool palms that were its parents.  The other three have varying degrees of blue and green tint, are shorter, clustering to varying degrees - one almost as much as a theophrasti or reclinata.  The shortest one is barely 5 feet.  This is the first year they have all flowered.

If they have this degree of variability from supermarket Medjool pits produced in a controlled environment from extremely similar parents, it's hard to tell what you might be getting from a nursery.

[AZPalms]

37 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

They can vary quite a bit in their growth habit, so no guarantee that they are hybrid or not hybrid in that regard.  I have four planted from the same seed batch, 3 at the same time with one being the "hot spare" I usually keep for my group plantings. 

One is over 15 feet to the top of its fronds and is completely solitary - almost as if it was taken from a grove and planted.  It looks and flowers just like the Medjool palms that were its parents.  The other three have varying degrees of blue and green tint, are shorter, clustering to varying degrees - one almost as much as a theophrasti or reclinata.  The shortest one is barely 5 feet.  This is the first year they have all flowered.

If they have this degree of variability from supermarket Medjool pits produced in a controlled environment from extremely similar parents, it's hard to tell what you might be getting from a nursery.

That’s what I was thinking as well, just genetic variation. Just drastic it seemed!

[Phoenikakias]

6 hours ago, AZPalms said:

That’s what I was thinking as well, just genetic variation. Just drastic it seemed!

Show me close up of the spine pattern along the pseudopetioles and I will tell you how probable is a hybrid.  Of course my job would be much easier,  were the plants older with a formed trunk. Usually juveniles are heavier armed than their adult counterparts, perhaps an adaptation to herbivorous animals of certain height.

[Phoenikakias]

You will never see such a heavy armour in a non wild Phoenix dactylifera. First picture is a hybrid, second picture is Phoenix theophrasti

[sonoranfans]

You never know what you will get from a palm nursery in arizona.  I was sold a reclinata that clearly had CIDP in it, a freakin monster armed with the worst spine arrays I ever saw.  Big thorns almost like CIDP and lots of them with all the suckers like reclinata.  Phoenix dactylifera is a palm that I never considered planting in my yard in AZ.  It seems like they sucker when young and need all kinds of maintenance.  Trimming a big one is gonna cost you either in pain or $$.  I never want to be standing(on  ladder or ground) cutting one of those leaves off and having it fall on me.  Removing them when small is much easier and less expensive.

[AZPalms]

On 3/5/2020 at 12:00 AM, Phoenikakias said:

Show me close up of the spine pattern along the pseudopetioles and I will tell you how probable is a hybrid.  Of course my job would be much easier,  were the plants older with a formed trunk. Usually juveniles are heavier armed than their adult counterparts, perhaps an adaptation to herbivorous animals of certain height.

Here’s a photo of the one I suspect hybrid?