Transplant of Pygmy date palm

[Robsi13]

 Hi all,

About a month ago, I transplanted a Pygmy date Palm into my backyard. I am in Australia so we are in winter currently. However we have quite mild winters in my area, and many plants still grow albeit a bit slower.

The Palm is around 2 and a half metres in height. It had quite a large mass of buttress roots that were cut away when being dug out perhaps 60-70cm worth from the base of the trunk down to the rootball. I did not see the planting level prior to it being dug out, but I have planted leaving the top 15cm to 20cm or so of buttress roots out of the soil. So I would say it’s planted about half a meter deep, perhaps a little more. I know the rule is generally to plant the root ball just below the soil line. But I could not find any information about transplanting plants with such a large mass of buttress roots and I did not want to plant the root initiation zone too high. I’m feeling a bit uncertain of whether the planting depth is acceptable and wanted to check if anybody has had any experience with this?

I removed 1/4 of the fronds at transplant time. We have had consistent substantial rain since then and I have been watering with seasol to keep the soil moisture high when we get a few dry days. I have done this perhaps once a week since planting. Soil is very sandy, but kept moist.

Apart from a bit of wilt, the Palm looks ok, the newest fronds are still opening, but very slowly. They are slightly discoloured and greyish, brownish in colour. So I was going to begin treating with a manganese foliar spray. However where I’m stuck is the lowest fronds have discoloured into a browny, orangey perhaps even purplish tinged colour. The lowest leaflets on the lowest fronds show this first, and it then progresses up the frond. I am wondering if anybody knows what this is? From my understanding of nutrient deficiencies, it looks like phosphorus deficiency. However I’ve read palms don’t show phosphorus deficiency in the leaves. My next guess would be potassium. But I don’t see the yellowing that you get with a potassium deficiency.

Im sorry I have tried to post photos of this but I’m now sure how. Just want to give it the best hope of survival.

 

[Jim in Los Altos]

A picture is worth a thousand words. When you click the orange “Click to choose files” below, your computer’s or phone’s photo albums will appear and you just tap each photo you want to upload. Then, when they appear again after uploading, you tap the photo images and they will appear in the text area and you then press “Submit Reply” in the blue box. 

Your pygmy Date Palm will need lots of water while acclimating yo its new position. 

[Robsi13]

Cool, thanks man I completely missed that clock to choose files at first!!

It’s hard to justify with photos exactly what the colouration is on the lower fronds. And since I posted it, having a closer inspection, it tends to be different from frond to frond. Some look more orange, others look bronze. Others purple. Still unsure on the planting depth also.

[Robsi13]

Also. The 2nd last photo you will see the latest of the newer fronds to unfurl which has drooped quickly, another thing I have noticed

[Jim in Los Altos]

First off, I would have planted it lower. Your palm has a few inches of exposed root “ends” at its base that would grow if under ground. The bronzing looks like sunburn. Was this palm previously in a shadier location?

At any rate it will likely recover. Normally cutting off green fronds is not good for a palm but, in this case, would reduce the palms stress since it’s lost a portion of its roots. I’d remove about ten fronds and keep the palm well watered, every day if possible, until it improves.  

Edited June 18, 2020 by Jim in Los Altos

[Robsi13]

Thanks man. That helps a lot, I have been really scratching my head on the planting depth. Everything I have seen talks about submerging the root ball so it’s just below the soil line and any deeper than that is detrimental to the Palm long term. But the large amount of the prop roots between the root ball and the base left me puzzled.

I don’t have a great deal of information about the old planting location. I asked a few questions but all I really got from them was that it lifted itself out of the ground by the prop roots across time.

If the bronzing is sunburn. Would that not show up across all the fronds? The bronzing only seems to be occurring at the lowest fronds.

Thanks for the information though for sure, I’ll remove some of the fronds and increase the watering. It has been getting water mostly daily. Might go a day without if we have a few days of heavy rain

[Jim in Los Altos]

6 hours ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

It’s a large palm and is probably stress from the transplant. It sounds like you got this from someone who was removing it? If so, you would have little control over this but I have had more success when I pre-cut the roots around the plant and allow time for it to acclimate. Water well and remove some branches/fronds/leaves. When the final dig is performed, there will be less stress since only the roots on the bottom will be cut. I’m guessing that wasn’t the case here. Also, are you saying that the root area that is now exposed above ground was previously below ground? If so, then you probably should have planted it lower. Generally, the plant should be at or near the same level as it was before. If these were above ground level before, they are called adventitious roots and are normal in some palms including roebeleniis. They should not be cut or buried. Below is a picture of one of mine displaying this that is around 20 years old. If you are in your winter, I think you will not know the outcome until it warms up enough to get some good growth. Until then, keep watering but don’t overdo it. Cool temps and wet feet are not a good combination. A micronutrient foliage spray could help. If the roots are severely pruned, they will be limited on what they can provide. I wish you good luck and hope it makes it. 

I’ve mounded soil up to cover adventurous roots on several Phoenix palms and the mounds were packed with new roots in half a year. It’s not detrimental in the least. 

[Mangosteen]

I've had some success with these placing a large beach umbrella over them until they start putting out healthy fronds. Pygmy date Palm do not like to be transplanted. They hang on for a while, but ultimately don't make it.  Through the years I've probably had over 20 customers ask me to move their Pygmy date Palms, only a hand full have survived.

[Robsi13]

I did get it from somebody who removed it. But yea I didn’t really get to understand the planting depth, so I just had to guess on what the depth would be. I would say the amount of adventurous roots you see above the ground now is again below the ground before the root ball. Would it make sense to mound up around what’s left above ground?

I have started foliar feeding with liquid potash and zinc / manganese chelate. I can definitely see some frizzle on the latest unfurling fronds.

I will remove some of the lower fronds tomorrow as-well. I’ve read contradictory stuff on whether to leave them or remove. Remove to reduce stress / transpiration, but leave to not rob the tree of mobile nutrients while it’s waiting to grow new roots. But in any case they are almost completely discoloured now. 
 

Would misting perhaps help as well?

[Jim in Los Altos]

15 hours ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

I have never heard of this being a good idea and have read several articles that recommend against it. I believe it is a characteristic of plants grown naturally in flood prone areas. I am not a plant biologist so I’m just reiterating what I have read. Here is one article.

https://www.hernandosun.com/article/normal-abnormalities-palm-trees-0

It’s also common practice with Washingtonia. My oldest 50 year old had nearly two feet of exposed root nubs at the base of its trunk. I mounded all the way up and a few feet out and the area is solid dense roots now that’s so dense that you can’t dig the area at all. 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Jim in Los Altos

[Jim in Los Altos]

On 6/20/2020 at 8:47 AM, Johnny Palmseed said:

I have never heard of this being a good idea and have read several articles that recommend against it. I believe it is a characteristic of plants grown naturally in flood prone areas. I am not a plant biologist so I’m just reiterating what I have read. Here is one article.

https://www.hernandosun.com/article/normal-abnormalities-palm-trees-0

The area around my oldest Washingtonia was originally flat until I mounded up soil nearly two feet up the trunk base that had pealed to expose hundreds of root nubs. Within a few months, that mounded soil was dense with new roots. New roots are even growing across the top of the mound. 

[Palmfarmer]

On 6/18/2020 at 10:54 PM, Mangosteen said:

I've had some success with these placing a large beach umbrella over them until they start putting out healthy fronds. Pygmy date Palm do not like to be transplanted. They hang on for a while, but ultimately don't make it.  Through the years I've probably had over 20 customers ask me to move their Pygmy date Palms, only a hand full have survived.

Really? I never had a single issue transplanting them. they dont even yellow a frond if the rootball stays intact for me. I also heard they are one of the most robust palms in terms of transplanting.

[Mangosteen]

On 6/22/2020 at 4:09 AM, Palmfarmer said:

Really? I never had a single issue transplanting them. they dont even yellow a frond if the rootball stays intact for me. I also heard they are one of the most robust palms in terms of transplanting.

Phoenix roebelenii?

[Darold Petty]

I found P. roebelenii to be difficult, and my two attempts to transplant failed.   I have had better results with Chamaerops, Trachycarpus, Chamaedorea, and Howea.

[Palmfarmer]

8 hours ago, Mangosteen said:

Phoenix roebelenii?

yes i transplanted several even at the worst times in winter and they dont even seem to register being moved for me. 

[Robsi13]

1 hour ago, Palmfarmer said:

yes i transplanted several even at the worst times in winter and they dont even seem to register being moved for me. 

What’s your care routine for them post transplant?

[Palmfarmer]

21 hours ago, Robsi13 said:

What’s your care routine for them post transplant?

I was just really gentle and got up the rootball properly. one i cut some lower fronds of right after transplant but it did not seem to make much of an impact since all the others are growing just as good. I just water them before and after transplant more. 

[Robsi13]

2 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

I was just really gentle and got up the rootball properly. one i cut some lower fronds of right after transplant but it did not seem to make much of an impact since all the others are growing just as good. I just water them before and after transplant more. 

Yea awesome, sounds like you’ve had some real success. Wish I had the opportunity to be there when this palm was being removed to have a bit more insight on what happened with the root ball.

The main thing I’ve noticed with this one now is that the newest unfurled spears are still green. But they quickly brown off and wilt once they open up. I imagine this is a moisture stress thing with not enough roots to uptake adequate moisture. Trying to encourage more root growth now. I don’t really wanna disturb the soil area to see what’s going on down there though.

[GoldCoastQld]

Hi Robsi13 just wondering how your roebelenii is going? I'm on the Gold Coast and have just put 3 in my backyard. As with you they're 2.5m and it's winter.  Mine are now 15cm above their original planted depth and I've mounded soil up sides of the rootball because I knew drainage would be slow.

It will be a week tomorrow, they're looking ok but the recent rain has shown how slow the backyard drains...one more job there....

 

[GoldCoastQld]

Here's the water, it's 15cm below the soil level. I was worried the roots would need more air so I've been bailing out the holes for a few days. Today I read the Roebelenii is ok with a lot of water in a hole with a clay base....another reason why I'm curious about yours, TIA!

 

[Tim7557]

Glad I came across this thread. 

I'm in Lakeland, Florida. I have a roebellini, three trunks and quite mature (10-15 feet), that I want to move.

My plan is to rent a mini excavator. Dig out about 3' around the trunks and slide it to where I need it.

Any thoughts?

Tim

[Johnny Palmseed]

15 hours ago, Tim7557 said:

Glad I came across this thread. 

I'm in Lakeland, Florida. I have a roebellini, three trunks and quite mature (10-15 feet), that I want to move.

My plan is to rent a mini excavator. Dig out about 3' around the trunks and slide it to where I need it.

Any thoughts?

Tim

Welcome to the PalmTalk forum. You have come to the right place. What you are attempting is possible but will not be easy based on what you have described. What you should do first is begin root pruning around the palm in order to limit the shock later when you pull it out. You can use a regular shovel to dig a trench around the base. As you prune the roots, you should also remove some fronds. You can do this in stages and increase your chances for success. Increase the amount of water to make up for the loss of roots and use a tarp or something similar to hold in as much soil as possible when you do move it. You will definitely need machinery to move it as it will be heavy and awkward. I would think that using heavy straps to lift it would be better than dragging it.