Jubaea or jubaea x butia?

[VA Jeff]

I have a palm I bought from California years ago that was supposedly a jubaea x butia F1 hybrid.  At the time, it was in a 15 gal container.  Now it is in the equivalent of a 90 gal trash can, since i couldn't find a pot big enough.  I suspect it is nearly 15 years old now.  Relatively slow growing.  Leaves have clear hooks on them, and the petioles are unarmed.  The leaves are nearly flat, and occasionally suffer from mild fungal attack in Southwestern North Carolina on the border of zone 8/7.  Do you think this plant is pure jubaea?  I don't see any sign of butia in it.  If so, could it be the biggest jubaea east of the Mississippi now? 

 

So what do y'all think?  Hybrid or pure blood?

[kinzyjr]

Definitely shows a lot of Jubaea.  As far as largest east of the Mississippi, I might be wrong, but I have heard there were some nice ones in GA.

[VA Jeff]

That's good to hear that there are more in the South.  There was a big one not far away in Rock Hill, SC a few years back, but it died eventually.  There is a grower in Southern Florida who claims to sell small jubaeas, but I'm wondering if they're actually hybrids, due to the difficulty of humidity where he is.

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, VA Jeff said:

That's good to hear that there are more in the South.  There was a big one not far away in Rock Hill, SC a few years back, but it died eventually.  There is a grower in Southern Florida who claims to sell small jubaeas, but I'm wondering if they're actually hybrids, due to the difficulty of humidity where he is.

I keep them on tap here.  They seem to do alright in pots but not as well in the ground.  There is supposed to be a large one near Orlando.  Some argue that it is a dominant Jubaea hybrid, but I don't know enough to comment intelligently in that discussion.

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/30034-mature-jubaea-chilensis-in-orlandoflorida

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Based on pics that's a hybrid.  Jubaea that size should have a more hershy kiss-esq trunk. Leaves bases look very jubaea but l leaves look hybrid especially for that amount of sun.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Its easy to go back and forth and convince yourself on plants when they're not side by side.  I've done it many times but when they're both available it becomes very clear.  

[Fusca]

Maybe it's a F2 since it looks so much like Jubaea and grows so slow?  Seems like JxB F1 and even BxJ F1 would be faster.

[Brad Mondel]

I have a nice spot in my yard for that hybrid.

[VA Jeff]

4 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Based on pics that's a hybrid.  Jubaea that size should have a more hershy kiss-esq trunk. Leaves bases look very jubaea but l leaves look hybrid especially for that amount of sun.

I assume you are referring to my palm, not the post that KinzyJR mentioned.  Perhaps you could be onto something about the base being hybrid like.  In person the leaves don't seem to have any butia in them to me, compared to some known smaller pure blood jubaeas I used to own (all died).  There is no recurvature in the leaves, they are nearly flat, and think/closely spaced leaflets that are rigid and don't lilt like many butia leaves do.  I would also expect it to grow much faster if it was a hybrid.  This thing grows at the speed you'd expect a jubaea to grow at.

 

Do you have any jubaea x butias?  I seem to recall you had something like that, or actual jubaea.  

[VA Jeff]

3 hours ago, Fusca said:

Maybe it's a F2 since it looks so much like Jubaea and grows so slow?  Seems like JxB F1 and even BxJ F1 would be faster.

Supposedly the cross was made using jubaeas at a winery in California, or so I think I was told.  Maybe butia x jubaea as the father, but those are much rarer than regular butias.

[Fusca]

9 minutes ago, VA Jeff said:

Supposedly the cross was made using jubaeas at a winery in California, or so I think I was told.  Maybe butia x jubaea as the father, but those are much rarer than regular butias.

Regardless of what it is, your palm is very nice!  I actually have a BxJ F2 but it looks just like a regular Butia.  Speed seems to be a little faster than pure Butia but not much.  Wish it looked more like yours or even like the parent palm!  I'm hoping that I'll be pleasantly surprised later on but from what I've read F2 hybrids tend to look more like one parent or the other and mine is Butia and I already have 3 Butias!

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Any guesses what these are?

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Palm #2

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Palm #3

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Palm #5 kinda ugly

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Palm 6. Little bigger.  

[yabazid]

44 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Palm 6. Little bigger.  

This one looks like my jXb but much bigger. 
 

[VA Jeff]

Palm 1 looks all butia to me.  Palm 2 looks like it might have some jubaea hooks on the leaflets, but otherwise mostly butia like.  Palm 4 looks butia x jubaea.  Palm 6 looks jubaea x butia, or vice versa.

 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Palm 1 and 2 are Shaffer bxj f1. Both have intermittent hooked leaves.  Palm one looks very butia while 2 has a lot of jubaea in it. 

Palm 3 is a jxb f1 I germinated from a jubaea seed.  Looks very butia though. 

Ugly palm #5 is pure jubaea. Its growing out of a funk. 

Bigger palm#6 is jxb f1

I've seen a lot of variety in hybrids.   One of the best identifying traits early on are how flat or folded the leavlets are. 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Also note that somehow palm #1 is the most leaf hardy of them all. That palm has never burned while all others sustained significant cold damage or complete defoliation at this property.  100% butia defoliation occured here including 12-15' tall specimens

[VA Jeff]

The leaflets on this palm are nearly flat.  In person, the leaflets scream jubaea, not butia.  Based on the evidence, I am still inclined to think it is pure jubaea.  The base might be wider in the ground, instead of a container.

 

I have some (BxJ) x S that also have very flat leaves.  They will probably be beauts some day.  And then I have some baby butia witeckii whose mother was as limp as a clinostigma or euterpe.  In a few years, I hope to cross them with a hardy queen or my sunkha.