Cycas pollination timing?

[Tracy]

I'm wondering if I am too late with the appearance of what appear to be small seeds on the megasporophylls of this Cycas thouarsii x cupida.  I'm still waiting for the male cone to mature on my male plant of the same cross.  The female plant has been giving off a pretty strong odor for close to 3 weeks which is one of the signs I would expect.  Other than my Cycas thouarsii, I don't think I have timed it right with any other Cycas pollination.  Thoughts, advice would be appreciated from someone with more experience pollinating this genus.  With my Cycas thouarsii, I used dry pollination as I had about 3 male cones to choose from and two receptive females at the same time.

[freakypalmguy]

Not sure about the pollination timing, But it appears to be past the window of opportunity.
 

How old is it? I have 4 that I germinated from seed about five years ago and it’s still hard to tell how they are going to look. Mine are still relatively small. I also have a thoursaii X cairnsiana that is a rocket ship and has 1.5ft off caudex but no cone yet. It’s about 10 yrs old

[Tracy]

5 hours ago, freakypalmguy said:

How old is it?

I got them in 1 gallon pots with about 1" caudex and 3-4 leaves probably around 2012, and would guess they were a couple of years old at the time.  So similar in age to your thouarsii x cairnsiana.  First time on both male and female coning so my guess is that yours might be close as well.  These coned at a similar size to a pure Cycas thouarsii.  I just picked up two seeds that dropped off one of my Cycas thouarsii that have been hanging on for right at 2 years. 

[Tracy]

The male still isn't ready to collect any pollen off it.  This was from the same seed batch as my female.

 

[freakypalmguy]

Very nice, I know my X cairnsiana has definitely picked up speed inThe last couple years,  so hopefully the X cupida will as well, they have moved along at a pretty good clip already.

 How lucky are you to have both a female and male plant. Of all my cycads I’m at about 90%/10% male to female. I can appreciate the beauty of all of the cones, but it would just be nice to be able to produce some seed from my plants. 
 

here’s a shot of the X cairnsiana 

[Tracy]

On 8/2/2020 at 6:16 AM, freakypalmguy said:

Of all my cycads I’m at about 90%/10% male to female.

I seem to be running a much higher percentage of male to female with my Encephalartos, but with Cycas I'm doing closer to 50/50 with a few yet to cone for the first time.  I have often wondered if there is a higher percentage of Encephalartos that will be male versus female or if it is like with mammals where it is roughly 50/50 probability of male versus female.  I won't speculate further, but am curious what commercial growers of cycads experience.  I meant to ask George Sparkman about this but guess I never got around to it.

[Tracy]

On 8/2/2020 at 6:16 AM, freakypalmguy said:

here’s a shot of the X cairnsiana 

I meant to ask what the Encephalartos is to the left of your C thouarsii x cairnsiana (paucidentatus?).  Looks like the x cairnsiana has shorter leaves that go more horizontal than the C thouarsii x cupida which tends to hold them more upright.  I like the look of it, as it also shows off the blue leaflet tops better.  As my x cupida get larger, the undersides of the leaves dominate one's color impression and they are more green, showing less of the blue tints than the tops of the leaflets.

[freakypalmguy]

On 8/3/2020 at 8:12 AM, Tracy said:

I seem to be running a much higher percentage of male to female with my Encephalartos, but with Cycas I'm doing closer to 50/50 with a few yet to cone for the first time.  I have often wondered if there is a higher percentage of Encephalartos that will be male versus female or if it is like with mammals where it is roughly 50/50 probability of male versus female.  I won't speculate further, but am curious what commercial growers of cycads experience.  I meant to ask George Sparkman about this but guess I never got around to it.

George will definitely be missed, he was a good man and wealth of knowledge. 
 

I was told once, and I think it might have been from George, that you need to have at least 5 of any given species to give yourself a chance at having a female, and still no guarantee. 
 

To the left is an E. transvenosus, it hasn’t coned yet, but I’m waiting patiently. 

[Tracy]

On 8/1/2020 at 7:37 PM, Tracy said:

I just picked up two seeds that dropped off one of my Cycas thouarsii that have been hanging on for right at 2 years. 

After 2 years of patience with the Cycas thouarsii seeds, they are starting to drop.  First photo shows the seed size relative to a standard brick for the larger ones I will keep.  Some don't appear to have been pollinated as they are about 1/2 to 1/4 the size of these.  First test is the float test.  Cycas rumphii complex and Cycas thouarsii viable seeds float unlike most other cycad seeds.  Thus far all the seeds I've tried have floated with about 15% -20% of the seed exposed.  I read that if 50% or more is above water they are not viable.  Next task was to clean them.  I dropped them in water afterwards to make it easier to go back and get any extra flesh off.  At this point they did sit higher in the water, so I'm hoping that does not mean these are not viable.  What I read only referred to the float test and height of floating before cleaning with no reference to the amount of buoyancy after cleaning and I would expect that the flesh was denser than the water, so they should sit higher after cleaning the flesh off.

Final step was to put the seeds in my mix of damp vermiculite with about 20% pumice mixed in and cover.  Patience is next.

Relative to the Cycas thouarsii cupida male, it still isn't shedding any pollen yet.  It was slower to push up, as I have another pure Cycas thouarsii pushing a cone which has actually caught up with the hybrid, so both are about the same stage now.  Unfortunately, I think all my female Cycas are beyond receptivity now.

[Tracy]

Missed the window on this girl this year (Cycas thouarsii x cupida).  Still waiting for my male of this same hybrid to start shedding any pollen.

[Tracy]

On 8/1/2020 at 7:39 PM, Tracy said:

The male still isn't ready to collect any pollen off it.  This was from the same seed batch as my female.

 

A month later, and it finally shed a little bit of pollen when I tapped on it yesterday.  Not enough shedding to really collect it but probably will be in the next couple of days.  It's kind of disappointing that the male was so much later in the season than the female. Both my male and female being the same cross from the same batch of seeds, I would have expected the male to be shedding pollen during the window that the female was receptive.

[Tracy]

On 9/2/2020 at 8:08 AM, Tracy said:

A month later, and it finally shed a little bit of pollen when I tapped on it yesterday.  Not enough shedding to really collect it but probably will be in the next couple of days.  It's kind of disappointing that the male was so much later in the season than the female. Both my male and female being the same cross from the same batch of seeds, I would have expected the male to be shedding pollen during the window that the female was receptive

I have been collecting the palm from the male of the Cycas thouarsii x cupida cross even though I missed timing on the female of this same hybrid (first two photos).  I'm saving some in case the female pops another set of megasporophylls next spring or summer.  I'm using part of it on one of my female Cycas thouarsii (third photo).  If it's anything like the last go round, I won't even be harvesting anything to find out if they are viable for another 2 years (some of the seeds hanging on from pollination 2 years ago with thouarsii x thouarsii in fourth photo).

[freakypalmguy]

What do you think @Tracy? This has usually flushed by now so I’ve been patiently waiting and hopeful. (thours x cairns)

[Tracy]

18 hours ago, freakypalmguy said:

What do you think @Tracy? This has usually flushed by now so I’ve been patiently waiting and hopeful. (thours x cairns)

It does look very close to erupting and a bit with the look of a cone or megasporophylls under that dome.  Only time will tell though.  That is a great hybrid by the way.  Wish I had got one of those when they were available at the time.  I see a couple of leaves coming from the base so it looks like you may have at least two pups on it.  Both my Cycas thouarsii x cupida have been vigorous pup producers.

[freakypalmguy]

2 hours ago, Tracy said:

It does look very close to erupting and a bit with the look of a cone or megasporophylls under that dome.  Only time will tell though.  That is a great hybrid by the way.  Wish I had got one of those when they were available at the time.  I see a couple of leaves coming from the base so it looks like you may have at least two pups on it.  Both my Cycas thouarsii x cupida have been vigorous pup producers.

I have my fingers crossed for the appearance of megasporophylls. Good eye, there is a couple pups. Interesting you say that about the cupida cross, a few of mine have just started putting out numerous pups this year as well.

Any coneing on yours this year?

[Tracy]

2 hours ago, freakypalmguy said:

Interesting you say that about the cupida cross, a few of mine have just started putting out numerous pups this year as well.

Any coneing on yours this year?

The male Cycas thouarsii cupida just finished pushing a flush that is now hardening off, as is the female.  She had another set of eggs she pushed out before the flush but I didn't have anything male to pollinate her with at the time so just let them go unfertilized Matt.  The female and her pups below.  I pulled a softball size one off last winter which resides at a friend's in Bonsall.  He sent me a photo of it flushing last March, so it appears to be doing well.

[freakypalmguy]

On 6/22/2022 at 4:22 PM, Tracy said:

The male Cycas thouarsii cupida just finished pushing a flush that is now hardening off, as is the female.  She had another set of eggs she pushed out before the flush but I didn't have anything male to pollinate her with at the time so just let them go unfertilized Matt.  The female and her pups below.  I pulled a softball size one off last winter which resides at a friend's in Bonsall.  He sent me a photo of it flushing last March, so it appears to be doing well.

Wow, those pups are getting huge, very nice 

[freakypalmguy]

I’d say it’s official on my thoursaii x cairnsiana, it’s a girl.