Hyophorbe verschaffeltii fragile as seedlings?

[SoulofthePlace]

Are Hyophorbe verschaffeltii always as fragile as seedlings for a long time until they finally become tougher than their cousin Hyophorbe lagenicaulis? It's growing very slowly and is so fragile and wobbly as a small seedling for a long time, almost dying and then, in a couple of years or so, it become all of a sudden tough and with a triangular trunk.

[quaman58]

I've grown a number of them is a less than ideal cool Mediterranean climate,  and they seem pretty sturdy growers to me. However I did purchase them as seedlings from a good grower, so perhaps they had a good head start..

[meridannight]

This is not my experience with growing H. verschaffeltii. I've germinated seeds myself, and the seedlings are strong and vigorous. They grow slow, but not excessively so. Definitely not fragile or wobbly seedlings.  

Hope it helps, I know I'm a little late responding.
 

Edited October 15, 2020 by meridannight

[TheMadScientist]

I still reflect upon this species.  100% germination on 100+ seeds in about 2 weeks, this photo is July 4th, 2013 2 months after sowing.  photo #2 shows 6" tall on December 6, 2013  when an unexpected cold wave was due that night 40 miles north of Los Angeles.  I moved everything into the "Race Car Trailer" and in the morning, all of them were DEAD.  I show the low temperature to be 30 deg. F (Palmpedia) and I don't think I achieved 32 deg. F, but they all voted the same outcome.  Are these FRAGILE?  I didn't think so, but I sure screwed them up.

Edited October 15, 2020 by TheMadScientist

[SoulofthePlace]

13 hours ago, TheMadScientist said:

I still reflect upon this species.  100% germination on 100+ seeds in about 2 weeks, this photo is July 4th, 2013 2 months after sowing.  photo #2 shows 6" tall on December 6, 2013  when an unexpected cold wave was due that night 40 miles north of Los Angeles.  I moved everything into the "Race Car Trailer" and in the morning, all of them were DEAD.  I show the low temperature to be 30 deg. F (Palmpedia) and I don't think I achieved 32 deg. F, but they all voted the same outcome.  Are these FRAGILE?  I didn't think so, but I sure screwed them up.

They look fragile as seedlings in the second photo. Do they wobble when you touch them? Do they take a long time to establish their roots in the soil of the pot so they don't wobble?

[TheMadScientist]

These do appear thin in the trunk area compared to the height in such a short time.  Photo #2, all of these are sitting on top of 55 gallon drums (rabbit protection) under a California Pepper tree.  My yard is approx. 700 feet in elevation above the valley floor, thus around 2 p.m. each day, air rises up slope moving these palms.  In October and November, we seem to have 20 to 35 mph wind.  I never lost a single palm of this species due to wind damage...The cold that happened the night of this photo was my down fall.  Also, I'll point out that the clear plastic containers each are in were 3 liter soda that I cut the top off and drilled drain holes in each of 5 feet on the bottom.

[meridannight]

Here are a couple of my seedlings. Sorry about image quality, my phone does not wanna focus well on small stuff. Mine don't wobble at all upon touching, they are growing securely in the soil.  The seeds were planted on June 29, and they germinated by Sep 26 (earlier than that, because I had them planted about 2'' below soil level. Like I said, no wobbling at all. They all seem very healthy to me.

[SoulofthePlace]

Thanks guys for the photos and comments. H. verschaffeltii seems to be thin as seedlings but strong as several year old plants, but H. lagenicaulis is vice versa: they are quite tough as seedlings and quite "wobbly" as older plants. My Hyophorbe verschaffeltii were germinated in an orange juice container (silver lining inside, colored paper outside) with drilled holes, perhaps that's why it became wobbly and very slow growing. Perhaps because it may not be draining well.

[meridannight]

On 10/16/2020 at 11:21 PM, SoulofthePlace said:

Thanks guys for the photos and comments. H. verschaffeltii seems to be thin as seedlings but strong as several year old plants, but H. lagenicaulis is vice versa: they are quite tough as seedlings and quite "wobbly" as older plants. My Hyophorbe verschaffeltii were germinated in an orange juice container (silver lining inside, colored paper outside) with drilled holes, perhaps that's why it became wobbly and very slow growing. Perhaps because it may not be draining well.

 

Heh, I now know what you meant by ''wobbly''. First couple of months after their germination (when I posted my initial response) they were not wobbly at all for me. But now they are. They have grown quite a bit above soil already, but the roots don't seem to catch up as fast.  So the seedlings do tend to flop or lean a bit. Not as much as to topple, but enough to say they indeed are 'wobbly'. 

Mine are now 7 months old from germination. I do have one -- my fastest-growing one -- that does not wobble. But all the rest of them do. So, yeah, you were right.

I will try to take some photos of them in the coming days. 

 

[meridannight]

Here are some of mine. I have 7 seedlings altogether. Seeds planted on June 29-30, 2020. Germination started on Sep 19, 2020. 

 

[SoulofthePlace]

After the last year's fiasco with GRAINES.BE seller (who sent me Trachycarpus fortunei seeds "disguised" as "Hyophorbe verschaffeltii" which in turn did not germinate even after 2 years), and after I was sent 30 Hyophorbe verschaffeltii seeds by a Leipzig seller, which did not germinate at all as well, even if they were not floating, this year I have purchased several batches (about 400 seeds) of Hyophorbe verschaffeltii from sellers in France and from the Reunion island as well. This year's Hyophorbe verschaffeltii seeds purchased from two different sellers all went to the bottom of the jar. Yet none so far of the 400 seeds have germinated after over 2 months so far. Perhaps they are good seeds, but not fresh, if they sink to the bottom but do not germinate. Are Hyophorbe verschaffeltii difficult to germinate for you guys?

[maxum2610]

,Hyophorbe species can take 6 months or more to germinate. Don’t give up on them. 

[meridannight]

On 7/31/2022 at 3:38 PM, SoulofthePlace said:

After the last year's fiasco with GRAINES.BE seller (who sent me Trachycarpus fortunei seeds "disguised" as "Hyophorbe verschaffeltii" which in turn did not germinate even after 2 years), and after I was sent 30 Hyophorbe verschaffeltii seeds by a Leipzig seller, which did not germinate at all as well, even if they were not floating, this year I have purchased several batches (about 400 seeds) of Hyophorbe verschaffeltii from sellers in France and from the Reunion island as well. This year's Hyophorbe verschaffeltii seeds purchased from two different sellers all went to the bottom of the jar. Yet none so far of the 400 seeds have germinated after over 2 months so far. Perhaps they are good seeds, but not fresh, if they sink to the bottom but do not germinate. Are Hyophorbe verschaffeltii difficult to germinate for you guys?

Mine took 3-4 months till shoots emerged above the soil (germinated them in the containers).

And I think I may have used the source from Leipzig for them in fact (it might not be the same source as yours, even though they were both from the same city). But I think the ultimate source for the seeds was RPS anyway. A lot of the sellers in EU do that -- they buy bulk from RPS and then resell them at smaller quantities. Problem with that obviously is that you have a higher chance of getting non-fresh seed.

Anyway, here's one of mine I germinated in 2020. All my 7 are still alive and doing good, with one of them doing especially well.

 

[SoulofthePlace]

Interesting. What temperatures did your HV seeds germinate and were kept at? Did you keep them indoors or outdoors and what soil medium did you germinate them with? I don't blame the sellers (except the Graines.be) and I must say that in my garage temperatures remain above 25C perhaps for maximum 3 months per year or even less. So I may have to move the ungerminated seeds to a water heater somehow if they don't germinate this year and if they don't rot by the time the temps in the garage become too low, such as below 20C.

[meridannight]

On 8/2/2022 at 1:54 AM, SoulofthePlace said:

Interesting. What temperatures did your HV seeds germinate and were kept at? Did you keep them indoors or outdoors and what soil medium did you germinate them with? I don't blame the sellers (except the Graines.be) and I must say that in my garage temperatures remain above 25C perhaps for maximum 3 months per year or even less. So I may have to move the ungerminated seeds to a water heater somehow if they don't germinate this year and if they don't rot by the time the temps in the garage become too low, such as below 20C.

I had mine above 25 C at all times, and mostly around 27 C. I kept them indoors, where the temps don't actually fluctuate during the day. It's more or less constant throughout the day, with barely any drop during the night time. Humidity though was around 70%, and the containers were uncovered, just standing there.

For the medium it was potting soil mixed with vermiculite and perlite. To a ratio of about 1/3, 1/3, 1/3.