Help with sylvester in Jacksonville, FL

[uscgbeachbum]

We had a beautiful sylvester planted in our front yard in February 2019 by a reputable, local company specializing in palm trees. The tree is in our front yard and receives mostly full sun all day long. The lowest fronds were around 3 1/2 to 4 ft above ground. It's new construction so the top portion of the soil is your standard upland fill, but once you hit about 6" or so down it's pretty sandy. We watered it well for the first few months and started tapering back like the planters suggested. Here in Jacksonville, FL, we had a relatively dry and hot spring 2019. In June 2019, I started noticing several of the lower fronds were turning brown at the tips, progressing down the frond to the base. At this point, we hadn't fertilized and I thought it was drying out so I started watering it daily. Fast forward 2 weeks and the browning had progressed. After some research, I started fertilizing with Southern Ag's Palm Nutritional. I would do 120ml per 5 gallons as a soil drench and 120ml as a foliar spray, following the instructions for corrective actions as every 2 weeks. By September, there was no noticeable improvement so I sprinkled 8 oz of rite Green MgSO4 around the base. I did that again again in October 2019, in addition to the Palm Nutritional soil drench and foliar applications which was my last fertilization of the year.

Starting in March 2020, I changed up my plan a bit. I modified my irrigation system such that it would put down 25 gallons on the root ball each watering (twice a week). In March I did 1 lb of Rite Green MgSO4, 120ml of Palm Nutritional, and 120ml of humic acid as a soil drench. At the end of April I added some potash to my mix: 4 tbl Rite Green MgSO4, 4 tbl potash, 120ml of Palm Nutritional, and 120ml of humic acid as a soil drench. In May, I did 8 tbl of Rite Green MgSO4 and 8 tbl potash. In June, I ran out of Rite Green so I switched to plain epsom salts where I did 3 lbs of epsom salt and 1 lb of potash. My most recent fertilization was earlier August where I did 1 lb epsom, 5 oz potash, 120ml of Palm Nutritional, and 120ml of humic acid as a soil drench.

Despite the fertilization, I haven't seen any slowing of the browning. I put some landscaping flagging on 2 fronds on 7/2. The flagging marked the lowest section that had any brown to see the rate of progression. The attached photos are from 8/4. In the photo showing the entire tree, the flagged frond is at around the 2:30 position on a clock face.

I'm a little bit at a loss and don't know what to do. Is the browning due to natural die off? Mg deficiency? K deficiency? Overwatering? Underwatering?

Thanks!

[NickJames]

The new growth looks vibrant green. I think it’s ok. I have a lot of Sylvester anxiety too. I Was losing one at my last house in Fernandina Beach. I never got to see the conclusion if it died or not.

[JLM]

New growth looks fine, might just be older dying fronds.

[uscgbeachbum]

Thanks for the information! Any concerns with the lower fronds yellowing? As far as growth rate, you can see that I've pruned 2 or 3 "levels" of fronds since we had it installed 18 months ago. For what it's worth, I pruned 4 fronds yesterday that were completely brown. This includes the frond in the lower left corner which was hanging about 12 to 18" lower than when that photo was taken.

[JLM]

There are some sylvesters that were planted at a car wash here that look about the same. All these palms get are sprinkler water. I would much recommend following what has been said above ^^^^^^

[Merlyn]

On 8/11/2020 at 10:10 AM, uscgbeachbum said:

Starting in March 2020, I changed up my plan a bit. I modified my irrigation system such that it would put down 25 gallons on the root ball each watering (twice a week). In March I did 1 lb of Rite Green MgSO4, 120ml of Palm Nutritional, and 120ml of humic acid as a soil drench. At the end of April I added some potash to my mix: 4 tbl Rite Green MgSO4, 4 tbl potash, 120ml of Palm Nutritional, and 120ml of humic acid as a soil drench. In May, I did 8 tbl of Rite Green MgSO4 and 8 tbl potash. In June, I ran out of Rite Green so I switched to plain epsom salts where I did 3 lbs of epsom salt and 1 lb of potash. My most recent fertilization was earlier August where I did 1 lb epsom, 5 oz potash, 120ml of Palm Nutritional, and 120ml of humic acid as a soil drench

That seems like a HUGE amount of Epsom salt and a lot of micronutrient related stuff, but no mention of the basic Nitrogen-Phosphorus-Potassium that you are using.  Potash is very alkaline.  Generally speaking you need to give it a balanced NPK fertilizer with palm micronutrients, something in the 2-1-3 ratio is fine.  So something like the Lowe's Sunniland 6-1-8 might be okay,  or HD Vigoro 8-4-8 or Lesco Palm 13-3-13.  One of the more recommended brands around here is PalmGain 8-2-12 which is in the recommended ratio.  Excessive rates of micronutrients or magnesium can cause toxicities.  PalmGain, for example, is only 4% magnesium and for fertilizing they recommend about 1.25 cups per palm at that size.  Your epsom salt dose is the equivalent of several entire bags of PalmGain.

To me the deficiency is probably nitrogen, since the leaves are uniformly yellowing.  If there were some significant yellow streaks, spots, frizzled leaves on new fronds, or generally weird leaf shapes then I'd consider some kind of other deficiency like boron.  But I think it just needs to not be doused with huge amounts of micronutrients and needs a well balanced palm fertilizer.  Here's a good document on landscaper fertilizing:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ep261

[uscgbeachbum]

2 hours ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

You have given a lot of info regarding your process but it is difficult to determine what is going on because you are using several products. Generally, after planting a palm you should just use a palm specific fertilizer and water. You are adding a lot of micronutrients and could be causing problems. Palm specific fertilizer will have these micros in quantities that should be good enough. You are also adding humid acid which might be making your soil pH too low. Do you know what your current soil pH is? I use humic acid but my soil and water pH is quite high at 8.0-8.4. Remember that transplanting is stressful and it is normal for a palm to not look as good as when you bought it until it recovers. If it was field grown, the roots were chopped and it will need to balance that up top whether you do it manually or it does it by pulling out the nutrients and browning up. Give it time and simplify your procedure and you might be fine. Sometimes less is more.

Thanks for the information. Originally, I was just using the Southern Ag Palm Nutritional (https://southernag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ChelPalm.pdf). I added humic acid after a year's worth of no changes after I read somewhere that it allows the tree to more readily use nutrients in soil and fertilizers. Unfortunately, I don't know what my pH is, but I should know soon since I just ordered one from Amazon.

Thanks again!

[uscgbeachbum]

27 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

That seems like a HUGE amount of Epsom salt and a lot of micronutrient related stuff, but no mention of the basic Nitrogen-Phosphorus-Potassium that you are using.  Potash is very alkaline.  Generally speaking you need to give it a balanced NPK fertilizer with palm micronutrients, something in the 2-1-3 ratio is fine.  So something like the Lowe's Sunniland 6-1-8 might be okay,  or HD Vigoro 8-4-8 or Lesco Palm 13-3-13.  One of the more recommended brands around here is PalmGain 8-2-12 which is in the recommended ratio.  Excessive rates of micronutrients or magnesium can cause toxicities.  PalmGain, for example, is only 4% magnesium and for fertilizing they recommend about 1.25 cups per palm at that size.  Your epsom salt dose is the equivalent of several entire bags of PalmGain.

To me the deficiency is probably nitrogen, since the leaves are uniformly yellowing.  If there were some significant yellow streaks, spots, frizzled leaves on new fronds, or generally weird leaf shapes then I'd consider some kind of other deficiency like boron.  But I think it just needs to not be doused with huge amounts of micronutrients and needs a well balanced palm fertilizer.  Here's a good document on landscaper fertilizing:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ep261

I've found wide ranging suggestions for epsom salt dosing (from teaspoons to 10 lbs at a time) and one, I wish I could remember where, seemed like a high quality source recommended the 3 lb range for Mg deficiencies. Another source I found was that dosing for Mg deficiencies need to include 1/3 the amount using potash, hence my 3:1 ratio I've been using. Note that I've been dosing these in addition to the Southern Ag Palm Nutritional (https://southernag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ChelPalm.pdf), which is what I started fertilizing with over a year ago. I only added the epsom and potash after a year's worth of no changes. Would you recommend the PalmGain over the Palm Nutritional?

As for the yellowing, only the bottom 2 or so "rows" of fronds have any amount of yellow with the brown being limited to the bottom-most "row". Everything else is green.

Thanks!

[Merlyn]

14 minutes ago, uscgbeachbum said:

I've found wide ranging suggestions for epsom salt dosing (from teaspoons to 10 lbs at a time) and one, I wish I could remember where, seemed like a high quality source recommended the 3 lb range for Mg deficiencies. Another source I found was that dosing for Mg deficiencies need to include 1/3 the amount using potash, hence my 3:1 ratio I've been using. Note that I've been dosing these in addition to the Southern Ag Palm Nutritional (https://southernag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ChelPalm.pdf), which is what I started fertilizing with over a year ago. I only added the epsom and potash after a year's worth of no changes. Would you recommend the PalmGain over the Palm Nutritional?

As for the yellowing, only the bottom 2 or so "rows" of fronds have any amount of yellow with the brown being limited to the bottom-most "row". Everything else is green.

Thanks!

Palm Nutritional is a micronutrient supplement only, and isn't intended as a generic fertilizer.  I have a bottle but rarely use it.  The generic "palm fertilizers" usually contain enough micronutrients (along with your soil) to prevent any noticeable deficiencies.  Magnesium deficiencies are possible and somewhat common, but show up as yellow linear bands, typically near the ends of the leaflets.  I don't see that in your photos.  To me it looks like you have a common nitrogen deficiency, because you haven't given it any fertilizer.  I'd stop your other stuff and buy a bag of PalmGain.  Follow the instructions and see how it goes through the fall. 

For reference here's my "rule of thumb" summary of common deficiencies.  For more detailed information I'd read through the IFAS link I posted earlier, or go to the "Fact Sheets" section on IDTools.  They have some pretty good photos and descriptions of deficiencies.  For example, here's a deficiency sheet on Magnesium: https://idtools.org/id/palms/symptoms/factsheet.php?name=Magnesium+Deficiency

 

Nitrogen:  Older fronds turn light green uniformly, new fronds remain dark green until deficiency is really severe

Potassium:  Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving inwards

Magnesium:  Yellow linear bands on leaves but generally transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Never causes leaf tip necrosis

Iron:  Many times caused by overly mucky soil and root rot. Starts with new spear leaves with yellow-green or even white, possibly with spots of green.

Manganese:  Lengthwise necrotic streaks in leaves with dead and curled leaf tips. Similar to bands showing Magnesium deficiency

Boron:  Bent or necrotic or distorted leaf tips, distorted or bent spear, bands of dead spots on new fans, spears that won't fully open

Water:  Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color
 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Merlyn2220

[uscgbeachbum]

11 minutes ago, Merlyn2220 said:

Palm Nutritional is a micronutrient supplement only, and isn't intended as a generic fertilizer.  I have a bottle but rarely use it.  The generic "palm fertilizers" usually contain enough micronutrients (along with your soil) to prevent any noticeable deficiencies.  Magnesium deficiencies are possible and somewhat common, but show up as yellow linear bands, typically near the ends of the leaflets.  I don't see that in your photos.  To me it looks like you have a common nitrogen deficiency, because you haven't given it any fertilizer.  I'd stop your other stuff and buy a bag of PalmGain.  Follow the instructions and see how it goes through the fall. 

For reference here's my "rule of thumb" summary of common deficiencies.  For more detailed information I'd read through the IFAS link I posted earlier, or go to the "Fact Sheets" section on IDTools.  They have some pretty good photos and descriptions of deficiencies.  For example, here's a deficiency sheet on Magnesium: https://idtools.org/id/palms/symptoms/factsheet.php?name=Magnesium+Deficiency

 

Nitrogen:  Older fronds turn light green uniformly, new fronds remain dark green until deficiency is really severe

Potassium:  Older fronds get translucent yellow/orange or dead spots on leaves, especially at the tips. Sometimes tips are curled or frizzled. Always starts at tips of oldest leaves, moving inwards

Magnesium:  Yellow linear bands on leaves but generally transitions to solid green at the base of each leaf. Never causes leaf tip necrosis

Iron:  Many times caused by overly mucky soil and root rot. Starts with new spear leaves with yellow-green or even white, possibly with spots of green.

Manganese:  Lengthwise necrotic streaks in leaves with dead and curled leaf tips. Similar to bands showing Magnesium deficiency

Boron:  Bent or necrotic or distorted leaf tips, distorted or bent spear, bands of dead spots on new fans, spears that won't fully open

Water:  Underwatering brown at the edges first, later followed by yellowing of the whole leaf. Overwatering can be drooping fronds turning yellowish and losing color
 

 

Thanks!!! Extremely helpful. I'll pick up some PalmGain this weekend.

[uscgbeachbum]

Follow up question. My order of PalmGain is set to arrive tomorrow. Should I do some heavy watering to "rinse" the epsom/potash off prior to laying down the PalmGain? Should I just put the PalmGain down without worry? Should I delay the PalmGain for a month or so?

[DonPalm]

How did your palm do?

[uscgbeachbum]

It's doing "ok" I think. I changed my fertilizer to PalmGain, doing a 300ml every month to 6 weeks around the base of the palm starting mid-August last year. My last fertilizer application for winter was 10/1 and the first for the spring was 2/15 as we started getting warmer. Photos below as of today. I was hoping the nitrogen of just the PalmGain would have helped, but it looks the same as it did in my original post. About two weeks ago I added 5 lbs of Sunniland 6-2-0 in an attempt to provide some extra nitrogen. I am unsure if it's been effective or how long it typically takes to show results. I do want to point out that there looks to be about 1 ft of growth between the 9 months spanning the original photos and the ones below. Most estimates I've seen for the Sylvester suggests 4-6 inches/year. Is accelerated growth good or bad?

Thanks!

[sonoranfans]

using separate component fertilizers as liquids(instant) is going down a path as Johnny said where you can lose control of soil chemisty.  Consider that some of these elements persist longer than others and with liquid fertilizers the concentrations can be locally high in the soil.  Sylvestis is not a difficult palms to grow, it's not a fertilizer hog, but it does not like the soil being wet most of the time.  WIth some lower drainage soils this happens in rainy wet florida, unhappy sylvestris palms.  The discolorations of your palm suggest multiple long term deficiencies that still exist and this is tricky.  Too much of any one fertilizer component can cause deficiencies  Excess potassium can aggravate the uptake of magnesium, manganese, zinc and iron.   There is a delicate balance required by the palm to be happy and since these minerals are depleted at varying rates(especially from a liquid fert) and because overdoing it is easy with liquids you have complicated the process of controlling nutrients.  I would wait and add the humic acid to chelate excesses you already have.  Humic acid is not a big influence on soil pH, epsom salt has a stronger impact on acidity.  At that point, perhaps a month or two after your last liquid fertilizer addition add some of the palm gain, nothing else and stop watering as it rains.   I suspect your soil is way out of whack from all the liquid treatments.  And by the way, palms dont like lawn lime, it gives rise to Mg deficiency by crapping up the Ca/Mg ratio needed(~3) for happy palms.  I have experienced this and chose to prefer my palms and they are much the better for it while the grass looks average at best.  For me that is no choice and its why I try to remove grass from under my palm tree canopies as much as possible. 

[DonPalm]

The new growth looks fantastic!  Very healthy!
Agreeing with sonoranfans, be careful with your lawn fertilizer and weed killers.  Make sure not to get any lawn products near your palm.
Please keep us updated on your progress.  This is a good thread!

One other thing.  Be careful when watering your palm. Do not water the trunk.  Palms don't absorb water through the trunk and this will cause the trunk to brown and crack faster.
If you have an inground sprinkler system, ensure it is not spraying the palms trunk.  I only say this because your lawn looks amazing!

Edited May 20, 2021 by DonPalm

[Merlyn]

It definitely looks a lot happier now, and the newer fronds look (for the most part) solid green and healthy.  Keep in mind that once a palm frond shows a sign of deficiency (by turning severely yellow or brown-tipping) it is not going to change back to green.  So to keep it on the right track you should monitor the new fronds for color and growth rate, and watch the old fronds as they die off.  If the old ones are dying off too early or in a strange manner then diagnose it and apply the right fertilizer for the deficiency.  So for example, if the old fronds are brown tipped with dead streaks along the length of the leaves, that would generally indicated a manganese deficiency.

I agree with Sonoranfans, it probably has a number of chronic deficiencies and it'll take time to grow out of them.  It may take another full year to look great.  But a growth rate of 1-2' per year is reasonable.

I'd stick with PalmGain for now, and avoid any lawn fertilizers nearby.  I don't know what Sunniland 6-2-0 is, but 5lbs of it seems like a lot.  I just put out a 40lb bag of generic Vigoro 8-4-8 and covered 369 palms and cycads in the ground.  You are probably better off doing frequent applications of small amounts, instead of doing one big dose.  It's less likely to wash away, and less likely to burn the roots.  A rule of thumb I read is 1.5lb of 8-2-12 per 100sqft of canopy, 4x per year.  So assume yours is around 12' diameter = 113sqft / 100 * 1.5 = 1.7lb of 8-2-12 fertilizer.  That should get you around the right ballpark.

[uscgbeachbum]

Thank you so much! I had no idea that once leaves started to turn yellow/brown that they couldn't be reversed. Another thing I've noticed is that the original photos were after I had cut off most of the dead fronds. Notice the V. When compared to the latest photo, even the bottom fronds which are nearly horizontal are still very green (excluding the tips).

[Merlyn]

Yup, a dose of fertilizer *might* stop a frond from continuing to yellow, but it won't turn it back green.  I think the only deficiency that can be corrected in existing fronds is iron or nitrogen.  In those cases fertilizer could help it go from a pale green to a deep green.  Of course Sylvesters are naturally kind of pale blue-green, so 10000lb of fertilizer won't ever turn it deep green. 

I'm not sure if this was mentioned above, but another thing you might not know is that palms will "eat" the older fronds for nutrients.  So at this point you are better off leaving old fronds until they are completely dead and brown.  If you cut them off while there's still some green on them, it just deprives the palm of extra nutrients and makes the deficiencies worse.  That's why over-pruned palms generally look sickly.

Cold will also yellow older fronds, so if you got down into the lower 20s it could cause some of the yellowing.  I only hit 28F once and 30F once this winter, and my Sylvestris in the back did get a few yellow tips on the oldest fronds.

[uscgbeachbum]

15 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

Cold will also yellow older fronds, so if you got down into the lower 20s it could cause some of the yellowing.  I only hit 28F once and 30F once this winter, and my Sylvestris in the back did get a few yellow tips on the oldest fronds.

Good to know! We had 6 or 7 hard freezes this winter. Definitely below 30f on several occasions. My Christmas palm didn't last.