Mexican Palm near pool

[AmyN]

We have a 20 yo Mexican Palm in our small back yard, where we plan to Install a pool. It is approximately in the middle of the yard, but along our back fence. The pool guy didn’t express any concerns, our landscaper said no way, and a nursery consultant said 2.5-3” away would be sufficient. Any thoughts would be appreciated! Drawing attached for reference.

[kinzyjr]

@AmyN Welcome to the forums!

Unless you love sweeping fruit and seeds out of the pool, no.

[Silas_Sancona]

11 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@AmyN Welcome to the forums!

Unless you love sweeping fruit and seeds out of the pool, no.

^^ Agree 100%.. One of the worst palms you could have near a pool. Constant seeds/ fruit are bad enough. Unless you plan on having it trimmed- so that there is nothing that remains attached to the trunk- each year,  old decaying leafstalk " boots" will end up in the pool, esp during any strong wind event.

[UK_Palms]

I would say just remove the flower inflorescence each year when it appears, so no seeds can fall in the pool. And keep the skirt and fronds in general heavily trimmed.

The other option is to remove that Robusta, but how much would that cost? Must be something like $1,500+ to remove a Robusta of that size, surely...?

[Silas_Sancona]

33 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

^^ Agree 100%.. One of the worst palms you could have near a pool. Constant seeds/ fruit are bad enough. Unless you plan on having it trimmed- so that there is nothing that remains attached to the trunk- each year,  old decaying leafstalk " boots" will end up in the pool, esp during any strong wind event.

** I should've added, -if- you decided to remove it, but do want something palmy in it's place, you've come to the right place. Numerous great places to purchase palms out there/ fellow San Diego area Palm Talk members willing to offer great ideas to research/consider.

[AmyN]

Wow! I’m so excited and appreciative of such quick responses! We get the trees trimmed every year. No concerns about the roots?

[kinzyjr]

Just now, AmyN said:

Wow! I’m so excited and appreciative of such quick responses! We get the trees trimmed every year. No concerns about the roots?

Unlikely that the roots will be a problem.  One of my neighbors has a huge Mexican Fan Palm(Washingtonia robusta) growing less than a foot from a sidewalk and a paved road.  Neither has ever been damaged by the roots.  Once a year may not be enough if yours behave as the ones here did this year.  There are several lining Cleveland Heights Blvd and Hallam Dr. in my town that have flowered and set fruit twice or even three times this year (January, May, and late July).

[ahosey01]

13 minutes ago, AmyN said:

Wow! I’m so excited and appreciative of such quick responses! We get the trees trimmed every year. No concerns about the roots?

I disagree slightly with @kinzyjr here. I agree that I don’t think a confined root ball is generally a problem for a palm, and I certainly don’t think there is any risk to the structure of the pool.

However, I do think there is some risk of putting your palm under significant stress if it is old and well established and you have to dig close enough to really start disturbing the root system in order to get the pool in.  Also, if you have to make any change to grade you risk some negative effects on the palm, although I don’t think that’s as big a risk as disturbing the rootball excavating for the pool.

Edited August 16, 2020 by ahosey01

[ahosey01]

7 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

I disagree slightly with @kinzyjr here. I agree that I don’t think a confined root ball is generally a problem for a palm, and I certainly don’t think there is any risk to the structure of the pool.

However, I do think there is some risk of putting your palm under significant stress if it is old and well established and you have to dig close enough to really start disturbing the root system in order to get the pool in.  Also, if you have to make any change to grade you risk some negative effects on the palm, although I don’t think that’s as big a risk as disturbing the rootball excavating for the pool.

Also, If this is an issue, you could probably call an arborist a month or two beforehand to help you root prune the palm where you need to do your excavating.

[GottmitAlex]

23 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

I disagree slightly with @kinzyjr here. I agree that I don’t think a confined root ball is generally a problem for a palm, and I certainly don’t think there is any risk to the structure of the pool.

However, I do think there is some risk of putting your palm under significant stress if it is old and well established and you have to dig close enough to really start disturbing the root system in order to get the pool in.  Also, if you have to make any change to grade you risk some negative effects on the palm, although I don’t think that’s as big a risk as disturbing the rootball excavating for the pool.

I doubt it.

It'll survive. Messing with a washies rootball will at worst, slow it down. But those things are immortal.  

[Jim in Los Altos]

5 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

I doubt it.

It'll survive. Messing with a washies rootball will at worst, slow it down. But those things are immortal.  

Agree 100%. Mature Washingtonia robusta (Mexican Fan Palms) are routinely dug with hardly any root ball here in CA and transplanted. Usually a few months of minor setback and they resume normal growth. Cutting into one side of your palm’s roots will likely not harm it at all. But keep it irrigated during the pool construction. 

[ahosey01]

6 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Agree 100%. Mature Washingtonia robusta (Mexican Fan Palms) are routinely dug with hardly any root ball here in CA and transplanted. Usually a few months of minor setback and they resume normal growth. Cutting into one side of your palm’s roots will likely not harm it at all. But keep it irrigated during the pool construction. 

She only said “Mexican palm.” In the nurseries around here that refers to Brahea armata, whose established root ball you would absolutely not want to disturb.  Typically I see “Mexican Fan Palm” referring to some kind of robusta hybrid, but “Mexican Palm” and “Mexican Blue Palm” referring to the armata.

@AmyN do you have a picture of the palm to confirm?

Edited August 16, 2020 by ahosey01

[NickJames]

If referring to “Mexican fan palm” aka Washingtonia, then it will be fine. The one on the left was four feet from the pool shell and the paver compactor went right over the rootball. But definitely please clarify as others have suggested  

I didn’t find it particularly messy considering I didn’t have any native shade trees (such as live oaks or sycamores) to create a REAL mess....

I grew up with a pool surrounded by queen palms (UGH!!) and very messy deciduous trees in Neighboring yards so Washingtonia were a breeze. 
 

make sure you have the port in the pool for a Polaris hook up to automatically sweep the pool and then it will be Easy as pie!

[Jim in Los Altos]

5 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

She only said “Mexican palm.” In the nurseries around here that refers to Brahea armata, whose established root ball you would absolutely not want to disturb.  Typically I see “Mexican Fan Palm” referring to some kind of robusta hybrid, but “Mexican Palm” and “Mexican Blue Palm” referring to the armata.

@AmyN do you have a picture of the palm to confirm?

Mexican Fan palms are the most common palms in San Diego. The Blue Hesper palm (Brahea armata) is not uncommon but is nowhere near as such as the Mexican Fan palm and a huge old one all the more unusual. My guess is that it’s a Washingtonia. Also, the palm is 20 years old. A 20 year old B. armata would be tiny in comparison to a Washingtonia. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Jim in Los Altos

[AmyN]

Thanks so much for all of your replies. How can I tell which it is? Attached are photos for more clarification. We do have some queens that it sounds like will be a pain for the cleaning, but this big guy is the one I mentioned...

[AmyN]

We just had it trimmed and the trunk stripped. Our guess is that it’s around 60’ tall.

Edited August 16, 2020 by AmyN

[ahosey01]

1 hour ago, AmyN said:

Thanks so much for all of your replies. How can I tell which it is? Attached are photos for more clarification. We do have some queens that it sounds like will be a pain for the cleaning, but this big guy is the one I mentioned...

@Jim in Los Altos is correct... Washingtonia.

I would personally still exercise some caution around the roots, but you’re not risking much excavation-wise.

Also, I suggest hiring a different trimmer.  That thing is trimmed back wayyy too far.

Edited August 16, 2020 by ahosey01

[awkonradi]

As others have noted, removing that palm would be a project in itself.  I would leave that palm in place, and see how you like it with the new pool, and then only remove it later if you are displeased with the amount of palm debris that lands in your pool.  At that height, wind may carry most debris from that palm some distance, and if you are lucky, that will be away from your pool.

Edited August 16, 2020 by awkonradi

[NOT A TA]

If it's actually 60' tall already it's lived beyond being an "asset" and will become (or is)  a liability that becomes more and more expensive to maintain. Removing it before pool install would probably be a lot less expensive than afterward.

It appears you'd have to cut almost half of the roots to put the pool in. How high are the winds there? 60' is a long lever.  With very little support on one side what will it hit if wind topples it away from the pool?

[UK_Palms]

That Robusta has been trimmed back way too far! Like WAY too far! You've almost got a telephone pole there. 

The Queens look like they have been trimmed back too far as well. At least in your climate they will grow back again quickly and have full crowns in no time. In my northern climate however, that would seriously knock back the palm and potentially lead to its demise here, ahead of winter. Either way I would hire a new trimmer who knows how to trim palms appropriately without ruining the aesthetic look.

Personally, I would be having kittens if that was my Robusta... 

[SailorBold]

Too beautiful to remove.. but yeah.. seeds will be an issue. My sister has a pool in chandler az and yup those seeds are always dropping.. birds eating them too...

Honestly.. if i ever have a pool.. i will never have anything planted around it.. just because it will strain all of the equipment.. there will prolly be enough crap blowing into it constantly as it is.

[quaman58]

We had our pool planned around 3 Washingtonia in 2003. We have to annually maintain them as it's not just the seeds but the flowers that are a bit of a pain. But that's been about the extent of the issues. No root problems. And they definitely add to the ambiance as you floating underneath them with a Margarita. Plus two of them are used to string the hammock between. A net positive IMO.

[Pando]

I'd say get rid of that thing before you install that pool, because later on removal is much more risky and costly (rather than dropping the pieces, they have to be lowered down by rope so not to damage the pool). It's a telephone pole anyway, costing you a couple of hundred bucks every year, not to mention the seeds and crap that falls down from it into the pool. I know it's a hard decision, especially when you just spent $$$ to have it trimmed and trunk cleaned, but think long term. Hurricane-cut washies aren't pretty to look at, and here in San Diego you can easily grow much better looking stuff.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Pando

[ahosey01]

1 hour ago, quaman58 said:

We had our pool planned around 3 Washingtonia in 2003. We have to annually maintain them as it's not just the seeds but the flowers that are a bit of a pain. But that's been about the extent of the issues. No root problems. And they definitely add to the ambiance as you floating underneath them with a Margarita. Plus two of them are used to string the hammock between. A net positive IMO.

I actually planted two trees in my yard at this specific distance so that when they were large enough, I could do this.  Literally for this reason.

[Kim]

I have to agree with Pando. If you truly love this palm, ignore my post, but the palm is more trouble than it's worth. Remove it, carve the base into a tiki, and plant a Kentia nearby for a slower growing, far more elegant palm. Well, unless you are in a very hot inland area of San Diego; a Kentia would struggle there. Even so, you'll have many choices for a more attractive poolside ambience.

[GottmitAlex]

By "20 year old" washie, I never imagined it was a 60 footer. 

What I said still stands. Having said that, I would discard that palm ipso facto.

 

[Jim in Los Altos]

That’s a ‘filibusta palm. It’s a cross between a Mexican Fan palm and a California Fan palm (Washingtonia robusta x W. filifera) and is MUCH older than 20 years. I would definitely keep it. When it’s canopy of leaves returns after that bad trim, it will be a nice focal point, particularly if you plant something colorful and tropical at its base. It’s also become a “skyline” tree visible from a distance away and enjoyed by others. Now that it’s trunk has been cleaned, maintaining that palm will be easy. Just make sure the tree trimmer doesn’t go beyond the 3 o’clock-9 o’clock leaf position when trimming. Would love to see the finished pool project!