Chamerops humilis differences

[Coasta]

Hello all! As I was looking at some chamerops humilis this weekend at the nursery I usually go too, i noticed the fans are deep cut and skinny compared to my chamerops humilis. I know that the cerifera version has that deep cut, could the ones with the deep cuts be mixed or do I have a hybrid. the first one is the chamerops at the nursery and the second is mine.  As a side note I purchased it from the same nursery.

Please see below. 

[Darold Petty]

Chamaerops is  highly variable, and that is one of the charms of this species.  If I had a large garden in a hot, sunny climate I would develop an entire collection of frond forms.

Chamaerops is a monotypic genus, only one species in the genus, so there cannot be hybrids.   You will likely encounter many more frond forms as you continue to become more familiar with this great palm.  

[Coasta]

Hi Darold! That's quite interesting how there are difference in the same palm.  I personally love the thicker fan that I have :). 

[Darold Petty]

Coasta, here is an example of an extreme form.  This one was discovered in a random assortment of Chamaerops in a retail nursery.  It is called the "Dick Douglas Mutant".    If you favor variety in this palm you should always review all the plants available at the nursery.  One never knows !

   I found a C. humilis v. argentea once with leaflets only 1/4 inch wide, and divided all the way to the petiole.   Also, argentea is the correct name for the silver/blue form from the Atlas mountains of Morocco, not cerifera.  

[aztropic]

Extremely variable species.Here's one I just ran across...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Coasta]

1 hour ago, Darold Petty said:

Coasta, here is an example of an extreme form.  This one was discovered in a random assortment of Chamaerops in a retail nursery.  It is called the "Dick Douglas Mutant".    If you favor variety in this palm you should always review all the plants available at the nursery.  One never knows !

   I found a C. humilis v. argentea once with leaflets only 1/4 inch wide, and divided all the way to the petiole.   Also, argentea is the correct name for the silver/blue form from the Atlas mountains of Morocco, not cerifera.  

Wow, palms are so fascinating how there can be different varieties of the same palm. The photo above actually looks like a chamerops argentea as it appears to have some blue silver. 

[Coasta]

15 minutes ago, aztropic said:

Extremely variable species.Here's one I just ran across...

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Thanks Aztropic for showing this variation.

so interesting!!

[Fusca]

Here is a weepy form that has leaves kinda like Livistona chinensis:

I prefer the solitary compact look myself:

[Coasta]

13 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Here is a weepy form that has leaves kinda like Livistona chinensis:

I prefer the solitary compact look myself:

Wow! So many variations. I also prefer the compact version i have. Its nice and stiff! Thank you for sharing!!

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

argentea is the correct name for the silver/blue form from the Atlas mountains of Morocco, not cerifera.

Darold, have you ever grown C. humilis var argentea from seed?  I'm curious if they are blue colored at the strap-leaf stage.  I collected seeds from a female at a nursery and germinated them and they are still green with 3 strap leaves.  It didn't occur to me at the time, but I guess it's pretty likely the father was a green humilis so my seedlings might not be pure argentea.  I'm curious to see what they end up looking like...

Jon

[Darold Petty]

Sorry, no, I have never grown Chamaerops from seed. 

I have grownSeronoa repens 'silver' from seed, they start green, and I believe Brahea 'super silver, and B. decumbens start green. 

[Coasta]

If I remember correctly, I believe i was told they are green when straplings and don't turn bluish silver color until later. Hopefully someone else can chime in. 

 

Same goes for bismarckia nobilis

Edited August 24, 2020 by Coasta

[Fusca]

That's what I'm hoping that they'll get some serious blue later in life.   My silver Serenoa seedlings are still green and I have read where the Brahea 'super silver' start green also.  Brahea armata and dulcis seedlings were blue or bluish from the get go.  My Bismarckia seedlings started silver/purple from the start also but the intensity of the silver is increasing as they are approaching the palmate stage.  I'm a bit partial to the blue palms as if you couldn't tell!  

[Coasta]

I can tell!!! I love it. They are different then the palms you normally see! Would love to see some of your palms!

[aztropic]

Not true for bismarckia.They sprout silver and will take full blistering sun from day 1.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Coasta]

Thanks Aztropic! From what I remember you telling me chamerops humilis the blue/silver form does not show its true color until it is older, correct? 

[aztropic]

Correct.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[Fusca]

3 hours ago, Coasta said:

I can tell!!! I love it. They are different then the palms you normally see! Would love to see some of your palms!

Since you started this thread I guess it's not hijacking if I post some pics of other palms here.  These are my blue/silver ones:

Sabal uresana (hoping for more blue with age)

Serenoa repens

Brahea armata

Brahea clara 'icy blue'

Bismarckia nobilis

Copernicia alba (under attack from Bougainvillea)

Butia odorata

Edited August 24, 2020 by Fusca

[Fusca]

And, I almost forgot, my Phoenix sylvestris/dactylifera? hybrid:

[96720]

Brahea armata pretty silver early on

Edited September 5, 2020 by 96720
Spelling

[freakypalmguy]

Beautiful blues Fusca, I’m a big fan of the blues also

[Coasta]

@Fusca gorgeous palms!!! You have a nice collection.:). 

@96720 beautiful seedling!!

[freakypalmguy]

15 year old cerifera, definitely deeply divided and has some good blue. 

[Coasta]

@freakypalmguyawesome cerifera!!! I hear those are slower then the humilis. 

[freakypalmguy]

11 hours ago, Coasta said:

@freakypalmguyawesome cerifera!!! I hear those are slower then the humilis. 

Thank you @Coasta It has been fairly slow, but steady. One of the other differences I really like is how fibrous/hairy the trunk is on cerifera compared to my humilis 

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by freakypalmguy

[Coasta]

@freakypalmguy I can definitely see that. How many years have you been growing it for? 

[freakypalmguy]

1 hour ago, Coasta said:

@freakypalmguy I can definitely see that. How many years have you been growing it for? 

@Coasta bought in 2008 as a small plant in a 5gal container. I guesstimated it was 5 yrs old when I bought it.

[freakypalmguy]

Here’s another variant/mutated leaf form, I remember someone calling it “juvenile leaf” form

[TonyDFW]

Mine in Dallas

[Coasta]

@freakypalmguy this variation is do interesting! I like how the fan is slightly thicker. 

@TonyDFW thats beautiful!! Could the location and how much sun exposure elongated the petiole?

[Cikas]

On 8/24/2020 at 7:02 PM, Coasta said:

Thanks Aztropic! From what I remember you telling me chamerops humilis the blue/silver form does not show its true color until it is older, correct? 

They are blue from very young age. 

[TonyDFW]

Coasta it is growing in full sun. Very blue at young age. 

[lzorrito]

Check this fused leaf Chamaerops. I passed by it lots of times and tough, at distance, that it was Sabal "Lisa", but today I stopped to take some photos...and found out that it wasn't so. Take a look at petiole/leaf base colour.

 

[Palmcycasnut]

Wow that is cool looking whatever it is!Would love to have some seeds from that to try out!

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, lzorrito said:

Check this fused leaf Chamaerops. I passed by it lots of times and tough, at distance, that it was Sabal "Lisa", but today I stopped to take some photos...and found out that it wasn't so.

Shall we call this one Chamaerops 'Lisa'?  Or should we name it Chamaerops 'Luís' since you discovered it? 

[Palmcycasnut]

5 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Shall we call this one Chamaerops 'Lisa'?  Or should we name it Chamaerops 'Luís' since you discovered it? 

Chamaerops 'Luís' works for me 

[lzorrito]

6 hours ago, Palmcycasnut said:

Wow that is cool looking whatever it is!Would love to have some seeds from that to try out!

Yep! Cool palm! I'll keep an eye on it...but there's no garantee that its seeds will produce look a like seedlings. And for sure I'm going to get some seeds if it actually produces some.

5 hours ago, Fusca said:

Shall we call this one Chamaerops 'Lisa'?  Or should we name it Chamaerops 'Luís' since you discovered it? 

That's funny...but I didn't discover it, but truth be told, I’ve never seen one so compact and fused... once in awhile Chamaerops typical variations lead to rare fused leaves specimens.

I've got three potted Chams, and all are different. One has got some really compact stiff leaves. Tomorow I'll post some photos (it's dark now).

As you know, Chamaerops are natives here in the Algarve. They grow spontaneous almost everywhere and assume numerous forms in order to adapt to each specific spot available growth conditions. I'll start taking some photos to share with you all so you may also check their differences and diversity around here.

[lzorrito]

21 hours ago, lzorrito said:

I've got three potted Chams, and all are different. One has got some really compact stiff leaves. Tomorow I'll post some photos (it's dark now).

Here they are:

[Pal Meir]

This bonsai had also very stiff leaflets, even when still a little baby:

 

[Coasta]

@lzorrito i really like those!!! i love the stiffer frond look. Nice!!

 

@Pal Meir very cool!!!