Sabal palmetto cv. 'Lisa'

[Moose]

Got this 'Lisa' from Meg a few years back. Flowering for the 2nd time. Robust growth in the last 5 years. Very slow when first planted.

[Jan Jo]

Really nice! I think the first time I saw that variety I found it ugly, but it's really grown on me! Does it grow as fast as regular Sabal Palmetto? 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Jan Jo

[Moose]

13 minutes ago, Jan Jo said:

Really nice! I think the first time I saw that variety I found it ugly, but it's really grown on me! Does it grow as fast as regular Sabal Palmetto? 

Not sure, only growing one other Sabal.

Sabal dominguensis. It too sat for about 5 years the erupted with growth. The tall Sabals have to develop a subterranean trunk before elongating.

Both were slower than Bismarckia or Tahina

 

[Moose]

I was not attracted to this palm initially. Only saw pictures. First time I saw one live was in Tim Blake's yard. So much better seeing it in three dimensional form. I knew I had to have one. Leaves are stiff like a Borassus.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Moose

[Jan Jo]

3 minutes ago, Moose said:

Not sure, only growing one other Sabal.

Sabal dominguensis. It too sat for about 5 years the erupted with growth. The tall Sabals have to develop a subterranean trunk before elongating.

Both were slower than Bismarckia or Tahina

 

Sounds just like all the Sabals I have. My only chance of getting hold of a Lisa here in Spain would be a seedling.. It would take so long!

3 minutes ago, Moose said:

I was not attracted to this palm initially. Only saw pictures. First time I saw one live was in Tim Blake's yard. So much better seeing it in three dimensional form. I knew I had to have one. Leaves are stiff like a Borassus.

The first time I saw one I thought it just looked like a palm you'd see on old CGA computer graphics... But as I said, it's really grown on me. Have yet to see a live one! 

[Moose]

'Lisa' is a genetic abborant form of Sabal palmetto. A percentage of it's prodigy will not have the gene that produces fused leaves.

You got to grow a group of them to see which will exhibit the 'Lisa' genetic trait

[Jan Jo]

29 minutes ago, Moose said:

'Lisa' is a genetic abborant form of Sabal palmetto. A percentage of it's prodigy will not have the gene that produces fused leaves.

You got to grow a group of them to see which will exhibit the 'Lisa' genetic trait

I see! Good to know! Thanks.. 

[Jan Jo]

1 hour ago, Moose said:

'Lisa' is a genetic abborant form of Sabal palmetto. A percentage of it's prodigy will not have the gene that produces fused leaves.

You got to grow a group of them to see which will exhibit the 'Lisa' genetic trait

I just looked at the vendor that offers Sabal P Lisa seedlings (getting tempted) ..  He seems to be offering them "barely germinated"... Do you think you'd be able to tell at that stage? Sounds a bit risky? 

[Jan Jo]

30 minutes ago, Jan Jo said:

I just looked at the vendor that offers Sabal P Lisa seedlings (getting tempted) ..  He seems to be offering them "barely germinated"... Do you think you'd be able to tell at that stage? Sounds a bit risky? 

Think I'm answering my own question really... Will ask for photos... 

[lzorrito]

28 minutes ago, Jan Jo said:

I just looked at the vendor that offers Sabal P Lisa seedlings (getting tempted) ..  He seems to be offering them "barely germinated"... Do you think you'd be able to tell at that stage? Sounds a bit risky? 

2 minutes ago, Jan Jo said:

Think I'm answering my own question really... Will ask for photos... 

Like most seedlings around here..."barely germinated". Most of the times, for us here, the only way to get that "must have" palm.

Did you seen it in "Para tu jardin"?

[Jan Jo]

13 minutes ago, lzorrito said:

Like most seedlings around here..."barely germinated". Most of the times, for us here, the only way to get that "must have" palm.

Did you seen it in "Para tu jardin"?

Yep, the very same... That's where I bought my "barely germinated" Butiagrus 5 years ago now though, and no regrets

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, Jan Jo said:

I just looked at the vendor that offers Sabal P Lisa seedlings (getting tempted) ..  He seems to be offering them "barely germinated"... Do you think you'd be able to tell at that stage? Sounds a bit risky? 

Definitely won't be able to tell at that stage.  I've not grown them myself but based on comments from the first post of the attached thread it takes 3-5 years of growth to see if there are any Lisa traits and only about 40% will show the traits.  I'd hold off unless you are buying a bunch of them and only expecting to get one or two with Lisa traits.  She no longer has the mother palm, unfortunately, thanks to a hurricane.

Jon

 

[lzorrito]

1 hour ago, Jan Jo said:

1 hour ago, lzorrito said:

Like most seedlings around here..."barely germinated". Most of the times, for us here, the only way to get that "must have" palm.

Did you seen it in "Para tu jardin"?

Yep, the very same... That's where I bought my "barely germinated" Butiagrus 5 years ago now though, and no regrets

Trusty then! Never bought from them. Must try.

But, back to Sabal "Lisa", I've been following a seedling (2 ft) planted last November on flowerbed by a road I usually use.  It's doing just great there. An eye catcher, it just sticks out among the surounding Chamaerops. Those fused leaves are really stunning!

Edited August 27, 2020 by lzorrito

[Moose]

I purchased 12 strap leaved 'Lisa' from Meg. She brought them to a Palm function we were both planning to attend. They were in one gallon containers. I stepped them up into 3 gallon containers and waited. Within a couple of years, some leaves started exhibited a "cupping" characteristic on some of the Sabals. These proved to have the 'Lisa' trait in time. 7 out of 12 ended up being Lisa. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Moose

[Jan Jo]

2 hours ago, Fusca said:

Definitely won't be able to tell at that stage.  I've not grown them myself but based on comments from the first post of the attached thread it takes 3-5 years of growth to see if there are any Lisa traits and only about 40% will show the traits.  I'd hold off unless you are buying a bunch of them and only expecting to get one or two with Lisa traits.  She no longer has the mother palm, unfortunately, thanks to a hurricane.

Jon

 

 

4 minutes ago, Moose said:

I purchased 12 strap leaved 'Lisa' from Meg. She brought them to a Palm function we were both planning to attend. They were in one gallon containers. I stepped them up into 3 gallon containers and waited. Within a couple of years, some leaves started exhibited a "cupping" characteristic on some of the Sabals. These proved to have the 'Lisa' trait in time. 7 out of 12 ended up being Lisa. 

Thanks! I've asked the vendor for photos (they've been for sale for a while now so I'm hoping they've developed a bit since the initial description), who knows, maybe they might show that distinguishing characteristic, I'll keep you posted

[Joe NC]

17 hours ago, Jan Jo said:

 

Thanks! I've asked the vendor for photos (they've been for sale for a while now so I'm hoping they've developed a bit since the initial description), who knows, maybe they might show that distinguishing characteristic, I'll keep you posted

I planted some "Lisa" seeds in the spring of 2017.  It took ~3 years for me to feel sort of confident that I could tell the Lisa from the regular ones.  When they were really small I thought that maybe some of the more curled ones were going to be the mutant form, but a bunch of them ended up pushing regular divided fronds.  I grew out 10 seedlings in 4"x9" pots, and I ended up with 4 that I'm pretty sure at this point are "Lisa" (3 now since I gave the one in the photo away). 

The only (bad) photo I have handy right now is of a handful of the assorted stuff I have grown from seed, but you can sort of see the difference in Sabal leaves here. 

The two plants in the center are the Sabal "Lisa".   The Sabal seedling on the right is at the size where it is showing regular leaves that are split into segments, while the one on the left is pushing larger undivided lisoid fronds (hopefully).  There might be a better way to tell at a much smaller size, but I think your best bet is to grow out a handful for a couple years to be sure you get at least one?        

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Joe NC

[Hillizard]

Here is the one Sabal 'Lisa' I got from Phil/JM a couple of years ago. Its roots are already pushing out of the bottom of the treepot I put it in last year. Tried to capture a top-down view to show the prominent cupping the leaves display. Hope it turns out to be the true Lisoid form.

[Brad Mondel]

Looks legit.

[Moose]

16 hours ago, Hillizard said:

Here is the one Sabal 'Lisa' I got from Phil/JM a couple of years ago. Its roots are already pushing out of the bottom of the treepot I put it in last year. Tried to capture a top-down view to show the prominent cupping the leaves display. Hope it turns out to be the true Lisoid form.

That's the cupping trait (look) I had on mine 

[Moose]

Same Sabal palmetto cv. 'Lisa', photo taken yesterday morning from center of the street before traffic started cranking.

[Hillizard]

Perhaps my final (?) attempt to purchase a Sabal palmetto with the 'lisoid' trait. Got this one from an East Coast mail order plant nursery that doesn't specialize in palms. Looks like it has potential, but then so did a couple of others I have. Time will tell...