Sprouting Chamadorea radicalis - share your tales

[GoatLockerGuns]

On 10/23/2022 at 3:57 PM, Fusca said:

I also gave a few radicalis seedlings to the owner of Palm Buddha there in SA.

Dude, I had never heard of that place.  I just looked them up on the interwebs...http://palmbuddha.com/.  I will have to go check them out one day.  Thanks for the tip!

[Fusca]

11 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Dude, I had never heard of that place.  I just looked them up on the interwebs...http://palmbuddha.com/.  I will have to go check them out one day.  Thanks for the tip!

They mostly sell large trunking palms.  I haven't visited since before the freeze but they had some interesting Brahea (not labeled) in 15-gal containers and plenty of houseplants in their greenhouse.  Hopefully they weren't hit too hard by Palmageddon!

[Chester B]

On 10/22/2022 at 6:49 PM, DoomsDave said:

How about an update?

Here’s a couple of them. The largest is at least 3 foot high now. They’re hard to see against the cast iron plants.
 

Unfortunately rabbits like to eat them and had one get in my backyard last winter. It killed two and others spent the summer recovering. 

[amh]

The beginnings of my chamaedorea forest and madness. I am finding that Chamaedorea radicalis actually does really well with sun and heat, so hopefully the species will survive the cold. I have been up-potting plants as pots become available and still have a bunch of Dave's seedlings in community pots(not pictured).

I have repurposed some old hanging baskets for "clumped" specimens, since these are a solitary species.

[Frond-friend42]

I think this one looks pretty good.

[ZPalms]

On 10/23/2022 at 4:09 PM, GoatLockerGuns said:

 

I always see people put leca in their pots but whats the function?

[GoatLockerGuns]

2 hours ago, ZPalms said:

On 10/23/2022 at 3:09 PM, GoatLockerGuns said:

 

I always see people put leca in their pots but whats the function?

As I understand it, the LECA helps to retain water while still providing good drainage. I use a soil, LECA, and horticultural vermiculite mixture as growing medium for many of my palms. Sometimes I will have some LECA left over, which I will place on top of the soil mixture, mostly for aesthetics.

[ZPalms]

7 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

As I understand it, the LECA helps to retain water while still providing good drainage. I use a soil, LECA, and horticultural vermiculite mixture as growing medium for many of my palms. Sometimes I will have some LECA left over, which I will place on top of the soil mixture, mostly for aesthetics.

does it have benefits to keep gnats away?

[GoatLockerGuns]

Just now, ZPalms said:

does it have benefits to keep gnats away?

It helps to keep your soil from getting "soggy," so, yeah, I guess...fungus gnats tend to be more prevalent in very wet soil (at least, from my experience)....if you have a gnat problem, try some mosquito bits....

[PalmsandLiszt]

7 hours ago, ZPalms said:

does it have benefits to keep gnats away?

Having something coarse and quick-drying on the surface will certainly help with gnats; LECA will work as will gravel, granite chips, lava rock, whatever you have to hand. If you put the moist microclimate of the soil surface under enough coarse, dry particles, the gnats won't find it. The disadvantage of this is that you can't easily feel how wet the soil is.

A better solution to gnats is to improve the medium so it remains moist and oxygenated but doesn't get swampy and anoxic. The conditions that gnats like are often the same conditions for root rot, and then the gnats will be the least of your worries.

[GoatLockerGuns]

1 hour ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

A better solution to gnats is to improve the medium so it remains moist and oxygenated but doesn't get swampy and anoxic.

Concur; however, this is sometimes easier said than done IMHO.  If you only have a few potted plants, it is much easier to manage your soil medium and maintenance to prevent gnats.  If you are like many on Palmtalk though, your palm mania has you tending way too many potted palms to give each pot the individual "love" it deserves (I would include myself in that category).  Some opt for "soil-less" growing mediums (which often include LECA as part of the substrate).  It would seem to me that you would have to pay close attention to some sort of "feeding" regimen to ensure the palms grow healthy (like feeding in a hydroponic setup).  Again, with a lot of potted palms, this seems as though it may be a daunting task.  Additionally, if you already have gnats, then I feel like your options are either: i) uproot the palm, clean off the roots of the previous growing medium, and do what @PalmsandLiszt suggests on your second try; or ii) fight the gnat problem, try to keep the palm in your original growing medium, and then try to manage your watering routine to prevent a gnat recurrence in "soggy" soil.

I try to keep the growing medium in my pots moist and well draining; however, the best laid plans sometimes fall apart during first contact with the enemy.  When I find a gnat infestation, I engage the enemy with a two pronged attack.  First, I opt for the Roman "salted earth" approach by drenching their nests with mosquito bits.  This is basically a biological warfare option designed to drive them from their homes, make their homes "uninhabitable," and kill their filthy baby larvae in the nest.  The gnats can live for a few days though, and many escape the barrage; therefore, I employ my second vector of attack simultaneously.  I also place "gnat sticks" in my pots (little yellow sticks).  I understand you can also use anything "starchy" to attract them (like cut potatoes), and then coat them with honey to make it sticky.  Gnat sticks are relatively cheap though.  The gnat sticks serve to catch and kill any refugees fleeing the carnage as a sort of "mop up" operation.  The black flag is raised, and no quarter is offered to the enemy.  I continue engaging until the operational objective of a total gnat genocide is attained.

[PalmsandLiszt]

20 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Concur; however, this is sometimes easier said than done IMHO.  If you only have a few potted plants, it is much easier to manage your soil medium and maintenance to prevent gnats.  If you are like many on Palmtalk though, your palm mania has you tending way too many potted palms to give each pot the individual "love" it deserves (I would include myself in that category).  Some opt for "soil-less" growing mediums (which often include LECA as part of the substrate).  It would seem to me that you would have to pay close attention to some sort of "feeding" regimen to ensure the palms grow healthy (like feeding in a hydroponic setup).  Again, with a lot of potted palms, this seems as though it may be a daunting task.

I have far too many potted plants, and I've just in the last 15 minutes or so ordered yet more of them; plus I have seeds germinating that will need potting up and seeds arriving that will need germinating. So I have put much thought into media, as I think this is a magic key to growing palms indoors successfully. I have a few in soil-less media, but most are not. I use osmocote slow-release to feed soil-less plants, which can be topped up with fresh osmocote on the top every 6-8 months. It really isn't an onerous task, and you can also use liquid feeds during the growing season. Just ensure the components of the mix will bind to the necessary nutrients so they will be bioavailable to the plant. The greatest disadvantage to the soil-less approach is the frequency they need watering, and you're much more likely to kill them if you don't water in time. Add to this that they're constantly growing and needing more water, so you can't simply fall into a routine but must constantly intuit the current value of the 'water integral'. So I agree that soil-less is not a magic cure-all and needs plenty of attention to work.
Most of my palms and cycads are in loam-based media, however, heavily amended with chunky particles to the promote good drainage, including LECA, bark chips, coco chips, pumice, etc.

I've never had any major problems with fungus gnats, though. I've certainly had gnats, but they've always been in plants not in my mix or were in my mix when it wasn't good enough, and reducing watering for a time has always killed them off. I'm currently engaged in fighting off various other pests, principally spider mite and scale, but I feel that I have cracked the gnat threat, and they daren't enter the gnat Mordor I present them with.

By all means continue your anti-gnat campaign if it works for you, but I'd suggest making your new soil more aerated whenever you re-pot, and the gnat problem will probably gradually subside.

 

[GoatLockerGuns]

2 hours ago, PalmsandLiszt said:

I've never had any major problems with fungus gnats, though. I've certainly had gnats

Yeah same here.  I think I have my growing mediums leveled out to prevent most gnat infestations (a little different for each palm/pot).  They occasionally pop up in a stray pot that I didn't get right; however, as aforementioned, they do not live happy little nasty gnat lives for long.  I pretty much follow the same grow medium routine as you (minus the soil-less stuff), but I usually sprinkle a little Palmgain vice Osmocote now and then (although, I am also a big fan of Osmocote, and use it occasionally).  For both spider mites and scale, I just wash them really good and rub the fronds/leaf tips to remove anything (particularly scale) that might be on them.  I then spray them with an organic pesticide (outside) in the hope they do not recur any time soon.  Earth Ally's Insect Control seems to work well for me (https://earthsally.com/product/24-oz-rtu-insect-control), but that is just the latest one I have been using.  I do not typically have spider might problems on palms though. They usually flare up on my Plumerias and Ti plants (where the branches meet the stem).  Scale though, that is a whole other campaign on the Western front.

[PalmsandLiszt]

Sorry, I somehow got the impression you were having problems with gnats. You don't, and I was preaching to the choir. I know what you mean about getting the mix wrong on occasion; it is an art which I have yet to master.

22 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

For both spider mites and scale, I just wash them really good and rub the fronds/leaf tips to remove anything (particularly scale) that might be on them.  I then spray them with an organic pesticide (outside) in the hope they do not recur any time soon.  Earth Ally's Insect Control seems to work well for me (https://earthsally.com/product/24-oz-rtu-insect-control), but that is just the latest one I have been using.  I do not typically have spider might problems on palms though. They usually flare up on my Plumerias and Ti plants (where the branches meet the stem).  Scale though, that is a whole other campaign on the Western front.

I wash off spider mites with a coarse spray of water when I see a heavy infestation, but mostly I rely on predatory mites. I find that spider mites do like palms, at least in my conditions, but no doubt we have different conditions and different palms.

Scale is more difficult; they don't seem to like palms much, at least, but they will spread to them if there's an outbreak on some dicot they do like. You can't wash them off and their shells generally protect them from sprayed insecticides. I prefer to use biological controls, and they are available for scale (in the form of parasitoid wasps), but you need to correctly identify the species of scale, or the wasps won't work. I really don't find determining what species of scale insect I have very interesting, but maybe I'll do that in the end; in the meantime, I just try to get rid of them by physically crushing/scraping them off.

[Tjohnson]

On 11/7/2022 at 6:21 AM, GoatLockerGuns said:

Yeah same here.  I think I have my growing mediums leveled out to prevent most gnat infestations (a little different for each palm/pot).  They occasionally pop up in a stray pot that I didn't get right; however, as aforementioned, they do not live happy little nasty gnat lives for long.  I pretty much follow the same grow medium routine as you (minus the soil-less stuff), but I usually sprinkle a little Palmgain vice Osmocote now and then (although, I am also a big fan of Osmocote, and use it occasionally).  For both spider mites and scale, I just wash them really good and rub the fronds/leaf tips to remove anything (particularly scale) that might be on them.  I then spray them with an organic pesticide (outside) in the hope they do not recur any time soon.  Earth Ally's Insect Control seems to work well for me (https://earthsally.com/product/24-oz-rtu-insect-control), but that is just the latest one I have been using.  I do not typically have spider might problems on palms though. They usually flare up on my Plumerias and Ti plants (where the branches meet the stem).  Scale though, that is a whole other campaign on the Western front.

I just noticed that BGI went out of business (must have been recently), so I suspect PalmGain is no more? Did they sell their recipe to anyone?

[bubba]

These?

[GoatLockerGuns]

8 hours ago, Tjohnson said:

I just noticed that BGI went out of business (must have been recently), so I suspect PalmGain is no more? Did they sell their recipe to anyone?

I cannot speak to their corporate status, but Palmgain is still in stock at Amazon...https://www.amazon.com/PALMGAIN-Fertilizer-Ferns-Cycads-Ixora/dp/B0087OTTPI/ref=asc_df_B0087OTTPI?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80195747038897&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=m&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583795274581556&psc=1

[Harry’s Palms]

My C. Radicalis are all tree form and they sprout freely around my house. I have put some in pots and given out to friends . I also have volunteer C. Microspadix and Metalica (only one) that have come up in the garden. None of the Tepejelote (spelling?) have sprouted that I am aware of. The Radicalis are the most prolific . Harry 

[dalmatiansoap]

Generation X 🥰

[NWpalms@206]

Cham Rad trunking form seeds that were a gift From Patrick Schafer when I visited him in oct. Fresh off the trees oct 3 and sowed oct 31. I just noticed today the sprouts. There’s 144 in this tray. So todays 50 days later with Heat mat on 18hrs, ambient pump shed room temp 70f. My question now is when do these need light? Now, once they’ve broken the surface? Nothing yet in 2 trays Jubaea and 1 tray trachycarpus nanus mix hybrids. 

[Darold Petty]

Yes, light now, these shoots should be green.  

[NWpalms@206]

9 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Yes, light now, these shoots should be green.  

They will get light today! Thanks 

[Darold Petty]

I'm not too busy today, and will post some seedlings later this morning.  

[Darold Petty]

Here is Chamaedorea tenella,  your shoots should be green from the very start.    

[Frond-friend42]

Perfect tropical accent for any kitchen

[dalmatiansoap]

Season 2023

[Pal Meir]

4 hours ago, dalmatiansoap said:

Season 2023

Very nice. And is your Lytocaryum insigne N°1407 fruiting too? 🤔

[dalmatiansoap]

@Pal Meir unfortunately no. Lost it during last winter. I believe it was root/soil problem.

[Rivera]

I haven't had any of mine germinate after 3 1/2 months in the dome. Surface temp in the community pot is about 78-80F during the day now, getting down to 60-62F at night. 

It was a bit cooler when I started them. Neighboring C. costaricana germinated very quickly...

No rot though. More heat? 

[amh]

6 hours ago, Rivera said:

I haven't had any of mine germinate after 3 1/2 months in the dome. Surface temp in the community pot is about 78-80F during the day now, getting down to 60-62F at night. 

It was a bit cooler when I started them. Neighboring C. costaricana germinated very quickly...

No rot though. More heat? 

Warmer temperatures and patience. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

@DoomsDave Since you have both varietys at what size do they normally start to try to seed ? Do the non-trunking var. seed much earlier ? I potted out a community pot from your seed maybe a year ago. Seeds being maybe 3 yrs old possibly a little older have already throw out an inflorescence. I love this palm and can't wait to spread some of these seeds to more PTers. 

Anyone with insight please chime in too 

T J 

[DoomsDave]

13 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@DoomsDave Since you have both varietys at what size do they normally start to try to seed ? Do the non-trunking var. seed much earlier ? I potted out a community pot from your seed maybe a year ago. Seeds being maybe 3 yrs old possibly a little older have already throw out an inflorescence. I love this palm and can't wait to spread some of these seeds to more PTers. 

Anyone with insight please chime in too 

T J 

Good question! I honestly haven’t done a survey.

[Harry’s Palms]

I believe all of mine to be tree form originating from a community pot of 6’ individual trunks , about eight or so int the large pot. I bought them over 20 years ago from Rancho Soledad Nursery in the clearance section and they were already producing seed . I now have ….well… a lot of them all over the place. Mine produce viable seed prior to and during trunking process. Easily germinated in weeks after pushing the fruit in the ground. I have , like @DoomsDave given hundreds of seeds and plants away . This one is barely a year oldThis on a couple , maybe 3 years old ( the seeds blend in , just left of center of the photo)This is several years after I planted the fruit in the ground . Over 7’ tall and still producing copious amounts of seed. There are 4 stems , two are male . Talk about luck! Harry

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

2 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Good question! I honestly haven’t done a survey.

I meant to send a pic with my questions. Basically I'm hoping to have some non-trunking variety mixed in with the tree form. @Harry’s Palms would love to have a bunch of radicalis on my property like you. 

T J 

[DoomsDave]

30 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

I meant to send a pic with my questions. Basically I'm hoping to have some non-trunking variety mixed in with the tree form. @Harry’s Palms would love to have a bunch of radicalis on my property like you. 

T J 

If you got seed from me, they’ll be a mix of trunking and bush type. Even if they’re all tree type save seeds and plant them; odds are you’ll get some bushes mixed in.

[Ben G.]

I posted about this in another thread on the cold hardy page recently, but here is my experience this year:

I bought some seed a little over two months ago. It was just 15 seeds, so I put them in some potting mix in a plastic bag. I placed the bag on a shelf in my garage and left them for about a month. None sprouted in that month. In the same month I sprouted lots of dates and washingtonias, so I checked my C. radicalis seeds. I had gotten the soil too wet in the radicalis bag, and I thought the seed was likely ruined. I tossed the seeds in my back flower bed though, just in case any were still viable.

About eight or nine weeks after the seeds were first put in the baggie, I found these four sprouts in my flower bed:

I got them potted up a couple of days ago. Since I thought the first seed batch was ruined though, I ordered more. So, now I have a second bunch of seeds I am waiting on too. 

I split the second batch into three parts. One part is in a baggie. Another part was sown in pots. The last part was sown in the same flower bed that the four seedlings above were in.

[amh]

After 3 and a half years, I have my first fruits. Now it is time to start the process over anew.

 

[Foggy Paul]

You folks in warmer climates sure get faster growth. I got these seedlings from @Darold Petty last year. I’ve been waiting to plant them out until they go pinnate. Is that necessary or should I just go for it? They have grown faster this summer but nothing like what some of you have been posting. 

[amh]

1 hour ago, Foggy Paul said:

You folks in warmer climates sure get faster growth. I got these seedlings from @Darold Petty last year. I’ve been waiting to plant them out until they go pinnate. Is that necessary or should I just go for it? They have grown faster this summer but nothing like what some of you have been posting. 

These palms love heat and are more sun tolerant than most people think, but they will need to be acclimated first.