My Common Queen & Silver Queen var. litoralis comparison

[The7thLegend]

My Common Queen & Silver Queen var. litoralis comparison

Been growing both palms at the same location in Lake City (borderline 8b/9a) since 2008.  The common queen was planted as a 7 gallon on the south side, the Silver Queen on the north side as a seedling.  There are oaks 100ft to the north that disrupt the cold northern winds some.

Couple quick thoughts.  The Silver Queen took off the last 2 years and began trunking this year.  The common Queen has had a trunk and been fattening a while now… yet they’re both about the same height today.  The common Queen has bloomed, the Silver Queen has not.  The Silver Queen was moved 2 times, once as a seedling and again as approx 1 gallon size palm.

Some of the more notable differences:

- Silver Queen has more flat/stiff leaflets, common Queen more droopy/plumose 
- Silver Queen has a more stiff compact crown.  Common Queen more loose and fluffy.
- Silver Queen leaflets have a darker green, slight blue hue.  Common Queen is more green to medium green.
- Much more Tomentum on the Silver Queen.  (perhaps added crown insulation) 
- Leaf bases slightly darker purple on my Silver Queen

As for the biggest factor, cold tolerance, from what I can tell the Silver Queen may be only slightly hardier.  Both have experienced some very cold temperatures without protection, 18/19 for a low, many low to mid 20s (2010) and some icy rain (2018).  I haven’t been able to observe initial damage and recovery while I was in Jax but I do have some additional progression and cold damage pics I may post later.  From what I can tell, leaf damage seems to be slower on the Silver Queen.  Also I did lose 1 Silver Queen seedling and 1 three gallon common Queen either after 2008 or 2010 from the cold.

Bottom line, I would say the Silver Queen var. litoralis is not a viable palm to grow anywhere in zone 8b without protection.  However if you’re a warm 8b and borderline, you probably can be successful growing this palm a while.

 

Common Queen 2008

 

Silver Queen 2008

 

Common Queen 2020

 

Silver Queen 2020

 

 

 

 

[climate change virginia]

silver queen is hardier by 5 degrees I think

[Reyes Vargas]

I personally prefer how the common queen looks but those before and after pictures prove that the silver queens are much faster growing.  Nice palms.

[DAVEinMB]

@The7thLegend both gorgeous palms man. Nice to see a before and after of the 2 as well. I planted one of each this past spring, with a lot of luck i may be able to do a comparison thread in a few years. 

[The7thLegend]

6 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

@The7thLegend both gorgeous palms man. Nice to see a before and after of the 2 as well. I planted one of each this past spring, with a lot of luck i may be able to do a comparison thread in a few years. 

Thanks @DAVEinMB!  What size are your Queens?  Another comparison will be interesting to see.

[floridaPalmMan]

Were these two unprotected the entire time and both survived in Lake City?

Im just a little south west of Lake city and have both queens & some seedling silver queens and really nervous about their survival long term.

[floridaPalmMan]

Also, is that a sylvester in the distance in the 2nd pic?

And did that survive the 18/19 degree winter lows and icy rain the queens made it through?

[The7thLegend]

13 minutes ago, floridaPalmMan said:

Were these two unprotected the entire time and both survived in Lake City?

Im just a little south west of Lake city and have both queens & some seedling silver queens and really nervous about their survival long term.

 

Yes, no protection.  I did lose a 3 gallon common Queen and 1 silver queen seedling that were more exposed after 2008 from the cold.

 

12 minutes ago, floridaPalmMan said:

Also, is that a sylvester in the distance in the 2nd pic?

And did that survive the 18/19 degree winter lows and icy rain the queens made it through?

 

In the 2nd pic that would probably be my 3 gallon queen I lost.

I do have 2 Sylvesters In Lake City.  Both easily survived the ice event in 2018 but I don't think either were planted during the dreadful 2010 cold event.  I will look back to see.

[The7thLegend]

This is what happened to these 2 palms after the 2018 ice rain cold event.

 

Common Queen

 

Silver Queen

 

Now looking at the pics I posted earlier, can you believe how fast the Silver Queen grew?

 

[floridaPalmMan]

14 minutes ago, The7thLegend said:

In the 2nd pic that would probably be my 3 gallon queen I lost.

Oops, sorry my mistake. I meant the 2nd 2020 pic. In the foreground is your current silver queen but in the background there is another large planted palm. Is that one of your sylvesters?

But thanks for the info and pictures. Those are beautiful palms.

You give me high hopes that my seedling sylvesters and silver queens will survive here!!

[The7thLegend]

7 minutes ago, floridaPalmMan said:

Oops, sorry my mistake. I meant the 2nd 2020 pic. In the foreground is your current silver queen but in the background there is another large planted palm. Is that one of your sylvesters?

That is my oldest Mule Palm at this location.  Bullet proof.  Side note they have 1 left at Lowes in Lake City in the very back with it's fronds tied up for $149.95 if interested.  Absolutely gorgeous.  I currently own 3.

Edited December 21, 2020 by The7thLegend

[floridaPalmMan]

1 minute ago, The7thLegend said:

Side note they have 1 left at Lowes in Lake City in the very back with it fronds tied up for $149.95

I was literally running my hands through that exact mule palms fronds at the Lake City Lowes a couple days ago

Unfortunately my wife said no since I've already spent like $1000 on palm seeds, pots, nursery palms, grow lights and a greenhouse in the last 2 months.

So anything over $50 is a no go at this point haha.

Im glad to hear they'll survive here though. I wasnt sure if mules were just a gimmick or for real.

[floridaPalmMan]

18 minutes ago, The7thLegend said:

Silver Queen

 

Now looking at the pics I posted earlier, can you believe how fast the Silver Queen grew?

 

No thats nuts. The thing nearly doubled in size in two years...crazy.

[The7thLegend]

10 minutes ago, floridaPalmMan said:

So anything over $50 is a no go at this point haha.

Im glad to hear they'll survive here though. I wasnt sure if mules were just a gimmick or for real.

You need to trick your wife into a romantic trip to Saint Augustine.... meanwhile you can visit Moultrie Palms (Frank & Elaine Lewis) in Saint Augustine and buy a mule for about that price. lol  

Edited December 21, 2020 by The7thLegend

[DAVEinMB]

1 hour ago, The7thLegend said:

Thanks @DAVEinMB!  What size are your Queens?  Another comparison will be interesting to see.

Absolutely! They're both small, the silver is a liner and the common is a 1 gallon. I know they're on borrowed time but we'll keep rolling the dice for mild winters haha

[floridaPalmMan]

39 minutes ago, The7thLegend said:

You need to trick your wife into a romantic trip to Saint Augustine.... meanwhile you can visit Moultrie Palms (Frank & Elaine Lewis) in Saint Augustine and buy a mule for about that price. lol  

Its outrageously funny that you said this. You might not even believe me because its so close to what you just said...

But we just spent our anniversary in St. Augustine for the "Nights of Lights" on the 11th and Im not joking we were going to walk around Moultrie Palms on our second day and look at mules but while we were visiting the light house we saw a bunch of palms and brightly painted pots which stopped us in our tracks.

It was called Leonardi's nursery and they have thousands of different palms and plants right in the middle of town. Its crazy. Sort of pricey, but the selection is incomparable to anything I've seen so far in northern Florida. (Only been here 1.5 years so take that for what its worth)

Anyway, we ended up spending way too much money and jammed as much as we could fit into her car and drove home shortly after.

But back to mules... I was going to also check out Liberty landscape supply in Jacksonville as they also sell mules but you're proof the Moultrie mule will live here and that's enough for me to go with them. The super mule looks interesting too but price will be the determining factor there.

Edited December 21, 2020 by floridaPalmMan

[The7thLegend]

@DAVEinMB yeah they are small.  Hopefully you gave them a fighting chance and picked a couple warm spots in your yard! lol

[The7thLegend]

@floridaPalmMan the nights of lights is beautiful.  Leonardi's has a great selection of plants, a lot of things you can't find at box stores but yeah, pricey.  One of my Sylvestris came from them.  You can also find Mules at the Home Depot on Ponce De Leon Blvd often and at a decent price if interested.  Plus they usually have a decent selection of palms and some uncommon varieties. 

 

 

[DAVEinMB]

On 12/21/2020 at 8:36 PM, The7thLegend said:

@DAVEinMB yeah they are small.  Hopefully you gave them a fighting chance and picked a couple warm spots in your yard! lol

I feel like they have good siting but time will tell. Extended forecast shows us keeping up 9b temps so I'll likely let them tough it out. They are in for some taxing weather over the next few days tho...

[The7thLegend]

Lake City Update...  My northern neighbor (large farm) decided to remove some oaks to put up a new fence about a week before the last cold event (1-30-22).  They were along our property line and isolated to the northwest corner but were giving my backyard protection from the cold, thus it was like opening a door and a trough ensued.  4 monitors recorded temps between 18-22 degrees this event.  The 2 queens pictured below had to see 18-20 at least.  Worst lows since 2010.  Blows my mind the difference in cold damage.  Pics taken today.

 

 Common Queen (south)

Silver Queen - Litoralis (lower 2 fronds we're already dead/dying before cold event) (north)

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by The7thLegend

[Scott W]

Silver queen is looking good comparatively.  Thanks for the update!

BTW, it's the only queen variety in my yard here in Jacksonville.

[BeyondTheGarden]

Dang!  @The7thLegend I gotta ask, does that thing seed?

Edited February 10, 2022 by Jesse PNW

[The7thLegend]

2 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

Dang!  @The7thLegend I gotta ask, does that thing seed?

The Common Queen has, the Silver Queen has not... yet... it has about 7ft CT so I expect it will this year!

[The7thLegend]

4 minutes ago, Scott W said:

Silver queen is looking good comparatively.  Thanks for the update!

BTW, it's the only queen variety in my yard here in Jacksonville.

Scott you're growing all sorts of cool stuff in your yard but hopefully your silver queen mingles with your Butias...  that would be an awesome cross.

[Scott W]

3 minutes ago, The7thLegend said:

The Common Queen has, the Silver Queen has not... yet... it has about 7ft CT so I expect it will this year!

That's interesting, considering the age and the fact I've seen smaller Queens than this flowering around town.  What is your feeding and water regiment?

[The7thLegend]

1 minute ago, Scott W said:

That's interesting, considering the age and the fact I've seen smaller Queens than this flowering around town.  What is your feeding and water regiment?

I'm trying to ween my palms off synthetic so lately only once a year, organic application 1-2  times.  Water only during dry periods, I let mother nature take care of the rest.  I'm in between Lake City and Saint Augustine (I have nothing marginal there, yet) so not a lot of time.

[NWpalms@206]

I wonder how the Santa Catarina fits into this picture. Would be really awesome to grow all 3 comparatively. I have 2 young Santa Catarina queens.  I need to find the silver “litoralis” and then the common queen should be pretty easy.  I’m tempted to do this I am about as close to 9a as 8b can be.  every 3-5 yrs we get high teen temps. 

[The7thLegend]

3 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

I wonder how the Santa Catarina fits into this picture. Would be really awesome to grow all 3 comparatively. I have 2 young Santa Catarina queens.  I need to find the silver “litoralis” and then the common queen should be pretty easy.  I’m tempted to do this I am about as close to 9a as 8b can be.  every 3-5 yrs we get high teen temps. 

That would be an interesting experiment.  I hear Santa Catarina is cool tolerant.

Edited February 10, 2022 by The7thLegend

[Scott W]

17 minutes ago, The7thLegend said:

I'm trying to ween my palms off synthetic so lately only once a year, organic application 1-2  times.  Water only during dry periods, I let mother nature take care of the rest.  I'm in between Lake City and Saint Augustine (I have nothing marginal there, yet) so not a lot of time.

Okay, thanks.  I keep mine on a pretty regular schedule for both, and she's coming up on six years from seed, five in the ground with an overall height which I'd say is pushing 14 feet and no trunk.

If yours flowers this year I'd love to get a bract or two of pollen, as I'm sure mine won't be flowering for a few years. 

[Scott W]

10 minutes ago, NWpalms@206 said:

I wonder how the Santa Catarina fits into this picture.

I have two on order from Matt at Wanderlust, I'll be sure to keep everyone updated 

[NWpalms@206]

Just now, Scott W said:

I have two on order from Matt at Wanderlust, I'll be sure to keep everyone updated 

That’s where mine are from, his nursery is about a mile from my work. Conveniently

[The7thLegend]

3 minutes ago, Scott W said:

Okay, thanks.  I keep mine on a pretty regular schedule for both, and she's coming up on six years from seed, five in the ground with an overall height is say pushing 14 feet and no trunk.

If yours flowers this year I'd love to get a bract or two of pollen, as I'm sure mine won't be flowering for a few years. 

Yours will probably flower sooner then later with a regular schedule imo.  Sure you can have the pollen if it flowers, but isn't the first spathe not very good?

[Scott W]

12 minutes ago, The7thLegend said:

Yours will probably flower sooner then later with a regular schedule imo.  Sure you can have the pollen if it flowers, but isn't the first spathe not very good?

Yeah, the first few inflorescence sometimes don't produce male or female flowers until it matures a bit more.

[Chester B]

I have seedlings of regular queen and littoralis. If you presented the seedlings to me I would say they are different species if I didn’t know otherwise. And I do have the Santa Catarina on order. 

2016 was the last time we saw teens. We recorded 19F one night. Average low each winter is 25F. Generally we get about 2 nights this cold per year. 
 

 

[Borderzoner]

10 hours ago, Chester B said:

I have seedlings of regular queen and littoralis. If you presented the seedlings to me I would say they are different species if I didn’t know otherwise. And I do have the Santa Catarina on order. 

2016 was the last time we saw teens. We recorded 19F one night. Average low each winter is 25F. Generally we get about 2 nights this cold per year. 
 

 

That's exactly this winter climate but I'm in North Florida.. last time we saw 19F was 2017.

[Chester B]

1 hour ago, Borderzoner said:

That's exactly this winter climate but I'm in North Florida.. last time we saw 19F was 2017.

Yes but your daytime highs are much warmer and you aren't nearly as wet and damp as we are.  Both of these types of queen palms would do better for you than me.  It will be a struggle here without some rain protection.

[NWpalms@206]

While on the topic… Does anywhere know a reliable source for the Litoralis queen? 

[DAVEinMB]

1 hour ago, NWpalms@206 said:

While on the topic… Does anywhere know a reliable source for the Litoralis queen? 

Check with Mike at Mule Palms of Mississippi, I got mine from him

Edited February 10, 2022 by DAVEinMB

[NWpalms@206]

30 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

Check with Mike at Mule Palms of Mississippi, I got mine from him

I’ve got an email pending to them actually since monday just about their upcoming plans/stock… didn’t think to ask at the time. Hoping he replies soon, or I may have to call him. 

[RJ]

1 hour ago, DAVEinMB said:

Check with Mike at Mule Palms of Mississippi, I got mine from him

That’s where I got mine from. Two years ago I think.