Royal palm spacing - how close is too close?

[chupacabra772]

Hi everyone! I'm new here, thanks for having me - what a cool community.

My partner and I are lucky enough to have recently purchased a beautiful half acre of land in Baja California Sur, Mexico. It's just a plot of dirt right now, but we have plans to build a house in the next 18 months. We've begun putting in irrigation and some palms in order to kickstart the growth along some of the perimeter of the property (see photo, this is the west side of the property).

My plan is to transplant some of these pictured Royal palms from the very middle of the plant line (near the mature Washingtonians) and move them to the corners (thinking ahead 20 years...would like to preserve our ocean view). In my head, I like the idea of Royal palms being clustered together fairly closely....however what I'm hoping to learn from you all is: how close is too close to plant these palms? Is it a mistake to plant 4 of them, with 4-5 feet of distance between each palm, in sort of a randomized pattern within a 15-20 foot area? (this is essentially what each corner would look like if we transplanted).

Thanks in advance for any guidance that can be provided here - I'm stumped! 

[Silas_Sancona]

First off,   Welcome to the Forum and Palm Talk..

As for your question,  ...Considering how big these get as they mature, i myself would think planting them closer than say 8-10ft apart would be too crowded... Like when there is enough space to allow the fronds to touch, but not crowd into each other, though there are members here who don't mind a more crowded look.  @DoomsDave among several other members here who have plenty of experience w/ Royals i'm sure will have plenty of additional thoughts on spacing, etc..  If they're available there, Veitchia Palms can be planted closer together, and look great in groups, imo.

As far as planting in multiples, on the corners as you were thinking, odd numbers is the usual rule but not something you have to stick to. 

Off topic ?, which side of Baja Sur are you located?

[chupacabra772]

Thanks much @Silas_Sancona, much appreciated. I've been searching for palm gardens with closely clustered royals, but i haven't been able to find any...perhaps for good reason, they need space! 

Love the look of Veitchia Palms. Palma de Navidad or Palma Manila in Spanish.....I haven't heard of those down here but will continue to to search. Thanks on the tips, all super helpful.

We're on the Pacific side, about 90 minutes north of San Jose del Cabo.

[Chris Chance]

I know I've seen them planted as multiples before. I did a Google search and found some. I found a picture but obviously not mine. I guess if you have the space it could look cool.

[NOT A TA]

Welcome!

As @Silas_Sancona mentioned they will be big, there's a lot of mature ones here. Even at 10' apart the frond tips of one would touch the trunk of the other so the crowns will really interfere with each other.  They look kinda cool when clumped until they start flowering. Doesn't seem like a big deal till the fronds of one start getting hung up on the flowers of the other when they fall off and they're too tall to reach with ladder etc.  Then there's dead fronds hanging for months and when the Infructescence falls it comes down with a crash because it's got two or three 50+ lb fronds with it. Whatever is under the palm gets crushed. I wouldn't go closer than 15' to make maintenance easier as they mature. Then the fronds will fall as they would naturally one at a time without getting unsightly.

While many palms will grow away from other trees, buildings etc. reaching for light the Roystoneas tend to grow almost straight up so it's not like you'll get the gracefully curved trunk as the tops grow away from one another like you would get with other varieties.

Another thing is the amount of water available. Looks like a kinda dry area you have and Roystonea like water. Big trees need a lot of water or they start to pencil as they mature and the crown gets smaller and smaller if they don't get enough water. Planting too close in a somewhat dry environment might be setting them up to fail over time.

[sonoranfans]

How big thy get depends on watering in baja.  The best mature multiples Ive seen are different heights.  There is one I know of in bradenton that has a clump of 4, all different heights an the crowns dont interfere much with trunks.  That multiple pictured above is attractive, though not yet mature.  When leaves get stuck up in that multiple crown(at 30-50' height) they can sit up there waiting to fall so its like a threat to fall on you for a long period of time.  A single palm will drop leaves much more predictably.  I know when I can walk under mine(most of the time) as they drop their leaves and dont get hung up by anything.  The dropping leaves can be very heavy and can really hurt someone, so when I see the crownshaft start to yellow or leaflets start to brown, I know to avoid the area till it crashes down.  I love royals, but I have only two, so there is not a constant threat of falling leaves..

[SouthFLA]

We plant them pretty close together along the roadways here in FL to mimic a native grouping. It really is up to your preference.

[sonoranfans]

here is a natural setting royal palm reserve in negril.  They look pretty well spaced.  Maybe seedlings cant compete with vines so well.

[sonoranfans]

and a thread here with some mexican and florida royals:  

 

 

[Merlyn]

I'd think if you randomize the spacing it should look nice.  Nature wouldn't have them on precise 5' center-to-centers, so if 2 are planted as a double, then another 8' away, another 4' away, etc.  You should also check out @redant and his royal forest.  I'm reasonably certain he has more of them than any other person on PalmTalk... 

 

 

[DoomsDave]

@chupacabra772nice to meet you!

Hmm.

I have a bunch of royals and I think they’re best used sparingly particularly in light of their copious water needs.

And their great size.

[Kim]

Hi Chupacabra, and welcome to PalmTalk! 

It is very common for people kind of new to growing palms to greatly, that is *greatly* underestimate the eventual size of their palms. Follow this link to see photos of an avenue of royals in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. The fourth post has a photo with 2 people in it walking down the avenue. That will give you an idea of what you will be growing.  https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/23195-postcards-from-brazil/

Of course, the palms in the photo are very old, but the size at the base happens quickly. I agree with others who recommend greater spacing, like 18 ft. apart, but that's a look I like. 

What are the dimensions of your property? Personally, I'd pot up the palms you want removed, and save them until your house is built when you'll have a better idea how much room you'll have. Or you might wish to trade them or sell them and buy other varieties that won't be quite so awesome in size, and can give you some variety in the garden. 

[Johnny Palmseed]

I measured this spacing and it is 23 feet or about 7 meters. Hope this helps.

[redant]

Truly depends on what you are looking for. In my front yard my royals are spaced far apart with several triples and a double. They make an excellent formal statement when placed at even intervals and a bit spaced apart. For my back yard I was going for the Tarzan jungle, they are mostly randomly placed to some extent, and as Merlyn pointed out, there are lots of them. I was wanting a great shade canopy and they do that well.  Water in FL is not an issue for them so I can plant them without cost of water involved. They do produce insane amounts of huge palm fronds so that's clearly a downside.

[James B]

13 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

@chupacabra772nice to meet you!

Hmm.

I have a bunch of royals and I think they’re best used sparingly particularly in light of their copious water needs.

And their great size.

In SoCal I agree with Dave. They love our heat but due to their watering needs the amount of watering needed is epic. Otherwise they will not grow to their potential. I water mine every day from May thru November. It’s too much fun watching them push spears 2” a day to not do it.

[Bazza]

Good timing...just picked up my first two Royals! My property is already populated pretty good with other species so will be a challenge to find the "right" spot for them - not because of spacing issues as much as aesthetic issues.

[Merlyn]

23 hours ago, Bazza said:

Good timing...just picked up my first two Royals! My property is already populated pretty good with other species so will be a challenge to find the "right" spot for them - not because of spacing issues as much as aesthetic issues.

And also safe placing away from roofs and cars and other plants in the "drop zone" for dead fronds.  Royals are notorious for dropping 15' long 50+ pound fronds with no warning.  Most other self-cleaning palms have the old fronds die off, hang down for a while, then fall off when they are mostly dessicated and weigh a couple of pounds.  Not royals!  @redant can attest to the random BOOMs of royal fronds dropping in his forest...  It's actually one reason I don't have any royals here, other than the difficulty of growing them in a 9b/9a borderline area. 

[redant]

4 hours ago, Merlyn said:

And also safe placing away from roofs and cars and other plants in the "drop zone" for dead fronds.  Royals are notorious for dropping 15' long 50+ pound fronds with no warning.  Most other self-cleaning palms have the old fronds die off, hang down for a while, then fall off when they are mostly dessicated and weigh a couple of pounds.  Not royals!  @redant can attest to the random BOOMs of royal fronds dropping in his forest...  It's actually one reason I don't have any royals here, other than the difficulty of growing them in a 9b/9a borderline area. 

Yep, not one royal anywhere close to a structure.  Monster frond drops.

[Bazza]

23 hours ago, Merlyn said:

And also safe placing away from roofs and cars and other plants in the "drop zone" for dead fronds.  Royals are notorious for dropping 15' long 50+ pound fronds with no warning.  Most other self-cleaning palms have the old fronds die off, hang down for a while, then fall off when they are mostly dessicated and weigh a couple of pounds.  Not royals!  @redant can attest to the random BOOMs of royal fronds dropping in his forest...  It's actually one reason I don't have any royals here, other than the difficulty of growing them in a 9b/9a borderline area. 

Funny you should write about this. I was at my friend Jerry's place yesterday picking up a few new palms and we were talking about a couple Royals he has planted in the front of his house. He's a massive collector and brought up the very same thing about the "curse" that comes with having a Royal. Don't put anything underneath that you hold valuable!

Now....on that same subject....collateral damage from palms......I mentioned to him that I learned a long time ago to slice off the flower stalks of my Foxtails even before they develop. I don't have to tell anyone here how massive and heavily laden Foxtail fruit clusters become - and when you cut then down it's "Look out below!" So I'm proactive on those - and my Crotons are thankful for it!

[redant]

23 hours ago, Bazza said:

Funny you should write about this. I was at my friend Jerry's place yesterday picking up a few new palms and we were talking about a couple Royals he has planted in the front of his house. He's a massive collector and brought up the very same thing about the "curse" that comes with having a Royal. Don't put anything underneath that you hold valuable!

Now....on that same subject....collateral damage from palms......I mentioned to him that I learned a long time ago to slice off the flower stalks of my Foxtails even before they develop. I don't have to tell anyone here how massive and heavily laden Foxtail fruit clusters become - and when you cut then down it's "Look out below!" So I'm proactive on those - and my Crotons are thankful for it!

Yep, those foxtails bare some heavy fruit. Get them before the seeds develop.