Medjool Hobby Orchard / Tissue culture

[mydateplams]

Wanted to share my Medjool hobby orchard / soon to be tissues culture. I have 100 8 year old Medjool palms (Phoenix dactylifera) I bought from a 100 year old colony in Coachella Valley that produce lots of fruit. They fruited this year but I did not pollinate and will do coming year.

Have them planted around the property and in rows 25ft apart so the fronds do not touch with 1in Polyethylene drip line ran and a inline EZ flow for fertilization.

My goal is to start doing tissue culture and selling palms by mail. 

 

I'm also growing Medjool ornamental palms from seed and have 500 two year old's in 1 gallon pots that I will move to 3 gallons in a few months.

Edited December 29, 2020 by mydateplams

[awkonradi]

Hi Jason, do you intend to produce palms by somatic embryogenesis, involving tissue culture?

[Garcia3]

Nice!  What was it about these particular date palms that appealed to you?  Date Palms are very beautiful, but the different varieties make it hard to settle on one type.   

[mydateplams]

Correct. Micropropagation using Novel inflorescence explants. I have a facility just need to build out a clean room and lab and space for this. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by mydateplams

[mydateplams]

Correct. Micropropagation using Novel inflorescence explants. I have a the facility and space for this. 

[mydateplams]

The Medjool is just the start I will be doing Halawi, Zahidi and Barhi.

[96720]

Have fun trimming all those get a saw with a long handle and some good leather gloves. Lots of luck 

[96720]

Does tissue culture work with palms? What do you use? I know of a grove of black Sphinx palms that I don’t know if you can get young plants of that might be interesting.

[dalmatiansoap]

Most od world commercial date production comes from TC plantlets.

Unfortunately, as most of everything else...

[jimmyt]

Medjool dates are tasty to eat!

[Frond-friend42]

Whats an inflorescence explant? Im very curious about how this is done. I thought you just had to wait for sucker/pup clones on those date palms.

[Kris]

Very nice,wish you all the best. And new year greetings to you and your family.

BTW. iam a phoenix palms fan.

Lots of love,

Kris.

[mydateplams]

On 12/31/2020 at 9:44 AM, 96720 said:

Have fun trimming all those get a saw with a long handle and some good leather gloves. Lots of luck 

I found that using a saw stresses the palm out and its better to have something with a sharper edge and have a clean cut. 

When the edges are frayed it takes longer to recover.

[mydateplams]

The long term goal is to have a mail order palm site here http://palmsbymail.com Palms By Mail for hobbyist like myself can buy certified female and male palms.  

[mydateplams]

On 12/31/2020 at 10:32 AM, dalmatiansoap said:

Most od world commercial date production comes from TC plantlets.

Unfortunately, as most of everything else...

I'm my location the Coachella Valley is the largest supplier of date fruit in the US its more common to have offshoots then tissue culture.

[mydateplams]

20 hours ago, Frond-friend42 said:

Whats an inflorescence explant? Im very curious about how this is done. I thought you just had to wait for sucker/pup clones on those date palms.

You take a palm that has a sucker = offshoot remove it from the mother and then basically cut the heart out and root it.  - 

The work is keeping it alive well you harden it for growing under full sun.

I plan on doing the same just not on a commercial scale. Honestly it is the next progression of the palm hobbyist world.    

 

 

[mydateplams]

On 12/31/2020 at 9:47 AM, 96720 said:

Does tissue culture work with palms? What do you use? I know of a grove of black Sphinx palms that I don’t know if you can get young plants of that might be interesting.

Yes it works very well and I would have interest in some offshoots.  The problem is we would need both male and female to keep the gene going and not produce a hybrid using pollen from a different type of date palm. 

 

[Garcia3]

On 1/1/2021 at 2:55 PM, mydateplams said:

I found that using a saw stresses the palm out and its better to have something with a sharper edge and have a clean cut. 

When the edges are frayed it takes longer to recover.

Can you tell me what are the other two tools in this photo beside the loppers? What general source information do you use/recommend as a hobbyist for the care and cultivation of Date palms?  I am starting to get into this, and I'd like some good starting points.  

[mydateplams]

The orange handle is a heavy machete that is really sharp and cuts the palm fronds cleanly and with ease the other is a hand sickle with a leather handguard that does the same.

Getting in to growing more then a handful of palms #1 I think you need to know your location and what will grow will determine what is best to grow in the area. #2 Have some type of small plan for the end game. What are you trying to do.  #3 Come up with a budget. I live in sunny palm springs and its boiling hot most of the year so date palms are a easy thing to do for me.

My belief is if you had a small backyard you could even do seedlings in small pots for resell or if you had a larger yard you could take those same plants all they way to mature specimens.

 

Getting bulk seeds and have a reliable source. I buy some and collect some.

[Xerarch]

On 12/31/2020 at 12:47 PM, 96720 said:

Does tissue culture work with palms? What do you use? I know of a grove of black Sphinx palms that I don’t know if you can get young plants of that might be interesting.

Those Black Sphinx date palms in Phoenix are too mature to produce pups, I would love to see some tissue cultures or something to preserve that variety.  Last I heard and if it was correct, there are no young Black Sphinx left, just the very tall and mature ones. 

[climate change virginia]

On 12/31/2020 at 8:31 PM, jimmyt said:

Medjool dates are tasty to eat!

not in Florida :p

Edited March 18, 2021 by climate change virginia

[climate change virginia]

tissue culture could bring back the Judean date palm

[mydateplams]

14 hours ago, mydateplams said:

The orange handle is a heavy machete that is really sharp and cuts the palm fronds cleanly and with ease the other is a hand sickle with a leather handguard that does the same.

Getting in to growing more then a handful of palms #1 I think you need to know your location and what will grow will determine what is best to grow in the area. #2 Have some type of small plan for the end game. What are you trying to do.  #3 Come up with a budget. I live in sunny palm springs and its boiling hot most of the year so date palms are a easy thing to do for me.

My belief is if you had a small backyard you could even do seedlings in small pots for resell or if you had a larger yard you could take those same plants all they way to mature specimens.

 

Getting bulk seeds and have a reliable source. I buy some and collect some.

I should have asked where are you located? I have about 20 - 5 year old female Medjool's in 15 gallon containers. That would be an instant small grove.

[Silas_Sancona]

15 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Those Black Sphinx date palms in Phoenix are too mature to produce pups, I would love to see some tissue cultures or something to preserve that variety.  Last I heard and if it was correct, there are no young Black Sphinx left, just the very tall and mature ones. 

I think the ASU Date Palm collection has a few Black Sphinx that i think were taken as offsets.. but not 100%.  Doubt they moved mature trees to their grove though.. 

Somewhere here, there was a lengthy thread awhile back, inc. some pictures showing using the immature?? inflorescence from Date Palms in tissue culture. If accurate, bet the technique would work on Black Sphinx.

[Garcia3]

On 3/18/2021 at 7:46 AM, mydateplams said:

I should have asked where are you located? I have about 20 - 5 year old female Medjool's in 15 gallon containers. That would be an instant small grove.

I'm located in Chandler AZ.   I'm hoping to grow a couple of varieties to the point of production.  Not a big operations just some home grown dates.  How long would it be before any of those medjools would fruit?  Also can you recommend any books on care and cultivation of date palms?  

[mydateplams]

On 3/19/2021 at 4:19 PM, Garcia3 said:

I'm located in Chandler AZ.   I'm hoping to grow a couple of varieties to the point of production.  Not a big operations just some home grown dates.  How long would it be before any of those medjools would fruit?  Also can you recommend any books on care and cultivation of date palms?  

My trees are flowering now and are about 8 years old. The ones I have in 15gl pots are about 3-4 years old so another few years. The larger and older the palm or offshoot the faster you are to having fruit but the more expensive they are. 

I've found no good books for a small hobby farmer but you will want to read about irrigation, fertilization for both the palm and also when they start to flower. I have gone out in the date fields and work with the Palmero's and they have shown me how to cut out an offshoot or what to look for in palms, etc. 

The internet is the best bet and just keep asking questions. I know the soil is AZ is like clay and if this is the case for you and your location you will have to excavate more then the space you need for planting and backfill this will sand and compost or the roots have a hard time.

[ahosey01]

38 minutes ago, mydateplams said:

My trees are flowering now and are about 8 years old. The ones I have in 15gl pots are about 3-4 years old so another few years. The larger and older the palm or offshoot the faster you are to having fruit but the more expensive they are. 

I've found no good books for a small hobby farmer but you will want to read about irrigation, fertilization for both the palm and also when they start to flower. I have gone out in the date fields and work with the Palmero's and they have shown me how to cut out an offshoot or what to look for in palms, etc. 

The internet is the best bet and just keep asking questions. I know the soil is AZ is like clay and if this is the case for you and your location you will have to excavate more then the space you need for planting and backfill this will sand and compost or the roots have a hard time.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this.  It is not uncommon for commercial growers near riverbanks here and in the middle east to plant in clay and flood irrigate to ensure the water penetrates the soil deep enough.  Commercial growers are not planting 10,000+ plant operations and amending the planting holes for each palm - to my knowledge.  Water requirements are different but as long as the soil is alkaline and not too saline, the palms will produce fruit fine.

Here's an article about fertilizing with clay soil:

https://www.ishs.org/ishs-article/882_84

On 3/17/2021 at 5:12 PM, Xerarch said:

Those Black Sphinx date palms in Phoenix are too mature to produce pups, I would love to see some tissue cultures or something to preserve that variety.  Last I heard and if it was correct, there are no young Black Sphinx left, just the very tall and mature ones. 

This is not true - thankfully!!  One of my best friends has a young (<15 years) palm (pure black sphinx) currently growing 7 offshoots above ground.  I will have some of these in my garden in the next 3-5 years.

On 3/19/2021 at 4:19 PM, Garcia3 said:

I'm located in Chandler AZ.   I'm hoping to grow a couple of varieties to the point of production.  Not a big operations just some home grown dates.  How long would it be before any of those medjools would fruit?  Also can you recommend any books on care and cultivation of date palms?  

There are a couple books I would recommend.  As pointed out above, many are good for commercial operations, but these two should suit you well:

https://www.amazon.com/Amazing-Story-Fabulous-Medjool-Date/dp/1491284218/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+fabulous+story+of+the+amazing+medjool+date&qid=1616436763&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Date-Palm-Utilization-Southwestern-States/dp/1163840416

There's also a guy down there growing a nice home hobby orchard with the soil/irrigation arrangement I described above - heavy clay soil and flood irrigation - down by you.  I can find out if he'll let me put you in touch.  Probably 40+ fruiting palms in his yard.

Edited March 22, 2021 by ahosey01

[ahosey01]

On 12/29/2020 at 1:19 PM, mydateplams said:

Wanted to share my Medjool hobby orchard / soon to be tissues culture. I have 100 8 year old Medjool palms (Phoenix dactylifera) I bought from a 100 year old colony in Coachella Valley that produce lots of fruit. They fruited this year but I did not pollinate and will do coming year.

Have them planted around the property and in rows 25ft apart so the fronds do not touch with 1in Polyethylene drip line ran and a inline EZ flow for fertilization.

My goal is to start doing tissue culture and selling palms by mail. 

 

I'm also growing Medjool ornamental palms from seed and have 500 two year old's in 1 gallon pots that I will move to 3 gallons in a few months.

How much are you irrigating per palm per day?

[mydateplams]

9 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

How much are you irrigating per palm per day?

I have 1in ploy tubing along each palm and each palm gets two Rain Bird pressure compensating module 5.0gph for 1hr at 7am everyday and then once a month I will water them for a good 3-4hrs.

[ahosey01]

18 minutes ago, mydateplams said:

I have 1in ploy tubing along each palm and each palm gets two Rain Bird pressure compensating module 5.0gph for 1hr at 7am everyday and then once a month I will water them for a good 3-4hrs.

Are you concerned about soil salinization with a shallow daily watering like that?  Where did you arrive at that number?

My own understanding is that during the fruiting period, a mature, fruiting date palm requires 55-80 gallons per day, which (coupled with thinning) is how you get those big, giant medjool fruit.  According to this table here: http://www.fao.org/3/Y4360E/y4360e0b.htm, the average orchard consumes between 19,000 and 69,000 gallons per palm per year.  Considering that 2/3rds of that (rule of thumb) is consumed during fruiting season, that's a rough range of 70-254 gallons per palm per day in fruiting season.  I would imagine that the lower end of that spectrum is where the soil is high in clay.

I also know that part of the reason flood irrigation is considered a preferred method among many growers is that it leaches the salts out of the root zone of the plant and often many of the minerals deposited from hard water in desert locales.  Do you expect that 40 gallons once a month is sufficient for leaching?

I'm learning so I want to make sure I am not missing something.

[Xerarch]

2 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

This is not true - thankfully!!  One of my best friends has a young (<15 years) palm (pure black sphinx) currently growing 7 offshoots above ground.  I will have some of these in my garden in the next 3-5 years.

Good to hear!

[Garcia3]

4 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

There are a couple books I would recommend.  As pointed out above, many are good for commercial operations, but these two should suit you well:

https://www.amazon.com/Amazing-Story-Fabulous-Medjool-Date/dp/1491284218/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+fabulous+story+of+the+amazing+medjool+date&qid=1616436763&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Date-Palm-Utilization-Southwestern-States/dp/1163840416

There's also a guy down there growing a nice home hobby orchard with the soil/irrigation arrangement I described above - heavy clay soil and flood irrigation - down by you.  I can find out if he'll let me put you in touch.  Probably 40+ fruiting palms in his yard.

Thanks for the info! And please let me know if your friend is interested it would be fantastic to see something like that.  

[mydateplams]

23 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

Are you concerned about soil salinization with a shallow daily watering like that?  Where did you arrive at that number?

My own understanding is that during the fruiting period, a mature, fruiting date palm requires 55-80 gallons per day, which (coupled with thinning) is how you get those big, giant medjool fruit.  According to this table here: http://www.fao.org/3/Y4360E/y4360e0b.htm, the average orchard consumes between 19,000 and 69,000 gallons per palm per year.  Considering that 2/3rds of that (rule of thumb) is consumed during fruiting season, that's a rough range of 70-254 gallons per palm per day in fruiting season.  I would imagine that the lower end of that spectrum is where the soil is high in clay.

I also know that part of the reason flood irrigation is considered a preferred method among many growers is that it leaches the salts out of the root zone of the plant and often many of the minerals deposited from hard water in desert locales.  Do you expect that 40 gallons once a month is sufficient for leaching?

I'm learning so I want to make sure I am not missing something.

The trees have only been planted about 2 1/2 years ago and when I bought them they had been 6 years old so not much of a root system.

Each tree is getting 10 gallons that's 5 gallons on each side of the tree.  So 10 gallons x 30 = 300 gallons a month x 100 trees is 30,000 gallons of water roughly a month and going up each year to water them.  I have a plan to get a well down the road and I have city water now so flood irrigation is out of the picture.  Plus I believe flood irrigation is a waste of water and the new method is to do drip on the surface and in ground diffuser to be able to control the amount each tree is getting. Even the commercial growers are changing from flood to drip here in the Coachella Valley.

My trees look happy and could use more water percolating over the roots but the cost is high and I'm just a hobbyist and not a commercial grower nor or my trees mature and would require anywhere near that amount of water.

Out of 100 trees so far 80 have flowered and I will be pollinating and bagging them here soon. To get larger plump dates you remove every two nodules from the flowers before the start to turn in to dates and this will allow them to have room to get big and plump.

Oh as the summer heats up I water longer.

Here are a few of them flowering I took these pictures 3/22/2021

 

[dalmatiansoap]

Definitely interesting project. Keep these pics coming

[awkonradi]

24 minutes ago, dalmatiansoap said:

Definitely interesting project. Keep these pics coming

Agree!

[mydateplams]

Hi update. 2/4/2022 one year from last post. 

 

I have a 140 tress planted.  30 zahidi date palms and 110 Medjools.   85% of the Medjools are about 15+ years old with 1-2ft of trunk and flower and produce fruit.

The tress are planted 25ft apart. One row is 630ft long with 24 trees in it. The other rows are 290ft long with 10 trees a row.

In the next month I will start to trim them up and get ready for flowering and tie up the offshoots and fertilize.

If you have questions ask away.

 

Ask

 

[Butch]

On 1/1/2021 at 1:55 PM, mydateplams said:

 

I can imagine that that knife with the leather hand protector would come in handy.... Trimming those things must be a pain-in-the..... Well, hand.

Butch

[mydateplams]

They are most have tools of the trade. Yes it sucks and takes me a few weeks working a few hours a day.

This is the only way to cut and trim this many trees and have them healthy. Here are some other photos.

The shovels are to cut the offshoots out and to do diamond cuts. 

 

 

 

These have a thick leather handguard and you wear long sleeves and like a sweatshirt.  

[Garcia3]

Did you buy or make those shovels?  I'm hoping to find something similar for my home orchard.

[mydateplams]

Those are home made and break all the time. I have been using a weighted steel shovel and I sharpen the blade and flatting it out It will be so shrap its like a knife. I have had a lot of success with them and have bought two more. I now have three.   I hit the end with a sledgehammer.

place the shovel between the palm and offshoot and then take the sledgehammer and hit the end of the shovel.. It will cut through and the thick shovel handle you can use it like a pry bar.

 

https://www.siteone.com/en/mcs78b-sharpshooter-145-in-spade-shovel-all-steel-635-in-steel-hand/p/152383