Recommendations for new Palm Garden? (weirder the better)

[iDesign]

Ok, palm experts, I have a question for you...

Say you lived in South Carlsbad (near Encinitas border) California, in a near-perfect planting zone. You have a huge yard, and have removed just about all the plants that were there originally (i.e., you're looking at pretty close to "clean slate"). You did leave the largest trees for shading purposes, but have tons of area you can fill with cool, exotic palms! You're in no hurry since you plan to never move, are a good internet researcher, and willing to put in the work.

You've already bought your "key" plants, and are now going to go on a spending spree snapping up a bunch of 1- 5 gal pots of various species (from Jungle Music, Craigslist, etc). Your plan is to fill the remaining spaces with a "palm garden" of unusual palm types (might even add cool plaques for each species).  You understand that not all the plants you're buying are going to survive, but the ones that do survive are going to be amazing (someday... many years from now).

What palms would you buy for your "Weird Palm Garden"?

Here's a list of some of the species that caught my eye based on internet photos...
- Chambeyronis Macrocarpa & Hookeri (must-haves)
- Dypsis Baronii (original, or black stem?)
- Dypsis Leptocheilos (my personal favorite)
- Dypsis Lanceolata?
- Dypsis Sp. "Orange Crush"?
- Dypsis Other? (please list favorites - there are so many!)
- Euterpe Edulis?
- Hedyscape Canterburyana?
- Hyophrobe Indica?
- Kentiopsis Oliformis?
- Pinanga Coronata?
- Other Amazing Palm?

Ideal would be if they all looked a little different (e.g., crowns different color, stems different color/pattern, different leaf shapes, etc). I'm thinking medium sized would be ideal for most of them, though if one gets super-tall that's ok too (esp if trunk is skinny). I have a ton of space to fill, in both sunny & shady locations.

Here's an imaginary $1000-2000... show me your shopping list!

[Xenon]

Lanonia dasyantha 
Kerriodoxa elegans
Licuala peltata var. sumawongii
Bentinckia condapanna
Clinostigma savoryanum 
 

[96720]

Got to have Bismarckia nobilis and maybe beccariophoenix alfredii

[Teegurr]

Copernicia baileyana or fallaensis for sure.

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Teegurr

[Tracy]

54 minutes ago, Teegurr said:

Copernicia baileyana or fallaensis for sure.

 

If you can find either of these in California and are patient, don't plant other things that will shade it out, this will be a unique looking palm even here in Southern California.  Bismarckia's are great if you have the space and will provide a great color contrast to all the green of most other palms, again will do best in full sun but eventually will create a great amount of shade for other palms.  Of the larger Dypsis, I wouldn't skip having a prestoniana because they do so well here.  I would recommend trying Dypsis decipiens which will be small for a long time, but even when small are quite attractive (good drainage and full sun).

Less than full sun clumping Dypsis I would consider are both D. heteromorpha and D. lanceolata (either of these work well as screens to block neighbor views).  If you can find Dypsis "black stem", keep it in shade for best color, much as with Dypsis psammophyla.  Dypsis basilonga is a must for solitary but not huge in this genus but again filtered or am sun.  Dypsis saintelucei is an attractive solitary species that has a little more grey-green coloring so nice contrast against some deeper green palms.  Dypsis ambositrae is proving to be a bit slow starting but once they get going very striking palm but placement can be a bit tricky, some say they need some shade, but my best looking is in full sun where one of my Copernicia is thriving. 

You should also consider some other New Caledonia palms: Kentiopsis pyriformis, Cyphophoenix elegans or nucele (elegans better on the coast, nucele faster further inland), and definitely Chambeyronia houailou.  Houailou isn't as colorful as it's better known cousins macrocarpa and hookeri, but the structure with the firmer leathery leaflets is incredible.  Consider some of the Basilonga and Cyphosperma.

Throw in a coupe more of the fan palms too for variation.  Some of the smaller Pritchardias would look good and allow you to have more diversity.  Coccothrinax are good for sunny spots and won't take up a huge footprint (argentata, crinita, miraguama all seem to grow fine for me here). 

 

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

Lanonia dasyantha 
Kerriodoxa elegans
Licuala peltata var. sumawongii
Bentinckia condapanna
Clinostigma savoryanum 
 

The first three above are great in filtered light here, the second two can take more sun, particularly the Clinostigma savoryanum.  The distinctive lime green crownshaft of the Clinostigma savoryanum is quite striking and wish I had planted another one here in Leucadia, but it's an exceptionally thirsty palm, that probably appreciates the clay soil I have in Carlsbad which retains the water longer.

I know you mentioned in another thread your first passion is bromeliads, but I would consider also mixing in some Cycads.  Warning that some parts of Cycads are very toxic to pets, although I have never had issues with my dogs over the years ever eating any parts of them.  You can get some fantastic color contrasts with cycads, and they will remain at eye level unlike many palms which will grow over head in a matter of a decade.  Another bonus of the cycads is water balancing here in Southern California... they demand less water so your overall water usage can be reduced a little.  They will be a bit like weeding around Dyckia's, Hechtias and Puyas in that you need to armor up, but if you have a lot of bromeliads, you know about sharp edges.  I like to mix in flowering Aloes and Aloidendron, but I stray from the palm related question.

So many other understory palms too.

[96720]

You might look at getting palms from Flouibunda palms they have a great selection 

[Tracy]

2 hours ago, Tracy said:

You should also consider some other New Caledonia palms:

I was just wheeling my trash cans out and realized that I missed a couple.  I can't believe I missed the Rasta palm on the day after Bob Marley's Birthday (Feb 6), but you really need a Burretiokentia hapala.  Since we are talking Burretiokentias a dumasii or koghiensis would also be a good selection.  All these will appreciate some shade to look their best.

In fond memory of Bob a day after what would have been his 76th birthday a photo of the palm that evokes his music.

[DoomsDave]

7 hours ago, idesign123 said:

Ok, palm experts, I have a question for you...

Say you lived in South Carlsbad (near Encinitas border) California, in a near-perfect planting zone. You have a huge yard, and have removed just about all the plants that were there originally (i.e., you're looking at pretty close to "clean slate"). You did leave the largest trees for shading purposes, but have tons of area you can fill with cool, exotic palms! You're in no hurry since you plan to never move, are a good internet researcher, and willing to put in the work.

You've already bought your "key" plants, and are now going to go on a spending spree snapping up a bunch of 1- 5 gal pots of various species (from Jungle Music, Craigslist, etc). Your plan is to fill the remaining spaces with a "palm garden" of unusual palm types (might even add cool plaques for each species).  You understand that not all the plants you're buying are going to survive, but the ones that do survive are going to be amazing (someday... many years from now).

What palms would you buy for your "Weird Palm Garden"?

Here's a list of some of the species that caught my eye based on internet photos...
- Chambeyronis Macrocarpa & Hookeri (must-haves)
- Dypsis Baronii (original, or black stem?)
- Dypsis Leptocheilos (my personal favorite)
- Dypsis Lanceolata?
- Dypsis Sp. "Orange Crush"?
- Dypsis Other? (please list favorites - there are so many!)
- Euterpe Edulis?
- Hedyscape Canterburyana?
- Hyophrobe Indica?
- Kentiopsis Oliformis?
- Pinanga Coronata?
- Other Amazing Palm?

Ideal would be if they all looked a little different (e.g., crowns different color, stems different color/pattern, different leaf shapes, etc). I'm thinking medium sized would be ideal for most of them, though if one gets super-tall that's ok too (esp if trunk is skinny). I have a ton of space to fill, in both sunny & shady locations.

Here's an imaginary $1000-2000... show me your shopping list!

I have half an acre in La  Habra in OC and you’re welcome to see though I know some of your neighbors in your hood have marvelous gardens too.

 

[Tracy]

3 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

I have half an acre in La  Habra in OC and you’re welcome to see though I know some of your neighbors in your hood have marvelous gardens too.

 

 

8 hours ago, idesign123 said:

What palms would you buy for your "Weird Palm Garden"?

Dave is reminding me that I should have offered.  I can also point you to some other gardens in the general area that are more established than mine that are worth checking out.  Feel free to send a PM.

[DoomsDave]

@idesign123 give some more details; how big is your lot? What kind of soil?

A suggestion for another species is Kentiopsis pyroformis. Those new copper leaves are the bees’ knees!

And so many more.

[DoomsDave]

4 minutes ago, Tracy said:

 

Dave is reminding me that I should have offered.  I can also point you to some other gardens in the general area that are more established than mine that are worth checking out.  Feel free to send a PM.

I need to see your garden one of these days!

[DoomsDave]

Dictyosperma album (expletive) rubrum!

Clinostigma savoryanum

Maybe even Ceroxylons!

[Matt from LA]

Make sure to go to Bluebell Nursery in Anaheim. Great selection of 25g’s for $100 with a great selection of a lot of what’s on your list. 
 

Josh at Fairview has great stuff as well. 
 

I wish I was in your position, I’ve run out of room to plant, send photos!

[DoomsDave]

Dypsis ambositrae. Glorious near the sea.

[Tracy]

11 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

I need to see your garden one of these days!

Same here.  This last year I haven't been getting out much other than going to the office.  If you get down this way, don't hesitate to contact me to visit.

[DoomsDave]

2 hours ago, Tracy said:

Same here.  This last year I haven't been getting out much other than going to the office.  If you get down this way, don't hesitate to contact me to visit.

I might do just that, soon, in the next week or so.

 

[Kim]

A water feature will add humidity to nurture your palms.  Lots of great ideas above. Did anyone mention Rhopalostylis sapida or baueri? Dypsis onilahensis weeping form (needs heat). Orchids add a lot to the garden, too, along with ti plants and anthuriums. A thoughtful layout with paths for access is important.

How big is "a huge yard?"

More votes for Floribunda Palms & Exotics and Josh at Fairview.

Edit: If this is your first experience with palms, be aware the most common rookie mistake is planting little palms in 12 to 18" planting beds up against a fence or house, which later grow to huge proportions. It is important to actually SEE the mature forms of palms in person, not just in photos, so you can space them  appropriately.

[DoomsDave]

1 minute ago, Kim said:

A water feature will add humidity to nurture your palms.  Lots of great ideas above. Did anyone mention Rhopalostylis sapida or baueri? Dypsis onilahensis weeping form (needs heat). Orchids add a lot to the garden, too, along with ti plants and anthuriums. A thoughtful layout with paths for access is important.

More votes for Floribunda Palms & Exotics and Josh at Fairview.

I concur vociferously, about the Rhopies, and have large ones to look at.

[iDesign]

Sooo excited about all the recommendations - I've been researching furiously, learning everything I can (researching palms has become pretty close to a full time job this month).

My updated plan is to contact both Josh in Fairview & Bluebell Nursery to try to snag a few more "mature" specimens for key places in the yard (possibly drop by Jungle Music as well). Get the "big stuff" in place... then last step will be to place a huge Floribunda order of tiny baby palms.

Funny you should mention "Rhopies" as those were my first big snag (from Joe at Discovery Palms), and I'm sooo excited about them. Here's a photo of me with my happy Rhopies...

[iDesign]

I should have shown the yard as well. I need to take updated photos, since there have been changes since I took the photos.

Here's my current "Photoshop" version of the front yard... at the moment trying out a Flamethrower & what I believe is a "Ptychosperma elegans" I saw at Rancho Soledad. I've tested out tons of different palms in that spot (Teddy Bear, Kentiopsis, etc), but can't find any of these in more than a tiny size. I also think the Ptychosperma triple might look nice & "weird" there. Would welcome any input though!

Rest is mostly Phoenix Roebelenii's, which I'll eventually replace with something cooler (when they mature). Dypsis or similar. The spot under the Fishtail is also quite large (might just stick my baby shade-loving palms there for now).

Edited February 9, 2021 by idesign123

[iDesign]

Next area to populate is "The Fence".
- The Double Queen Palm & Australian Tree Ferns have been removed. 
- The Fishtails are mine, and the huge Podocarpus is my neighbors (both of these stay).
- The bushy stuff above the right fishtail is crazy-tall "Red Tip Photinia", which has gotten way out of control. It's a constant debate between my husband & me about whether to keep it or cut it down. The question is what to replace it with if we did cut it down (to visually balance out the huge podocarpus). There was some huge Chamaedorea Costracana at Rancho Soledad I was tempted to try there, but not sure it could handle that much sun. So until we get a better idea, the overgrown photinia stays :-/
- The (former) double queen palm spot & the rest of the fence area are available for planting.

Edited February 9, 2021 by idesign123

[iDesign]

Opposite the fence is a long glass fence. We've removed the double queen, and there is currently no plants in this area. This is one of the places I was thinking of putting weird palms. We might expand the planter area to give them more room. This area is relatively sunny, although those huge trees on the other side of the fence provide tons of shade in the summer.

 

[iDesign]

Now for the funnest part! We just completed installation of a "waterfall" feature in the backyard (that part is NOT photoshopped). There's a little hut, with a "schippia concolor" on the left (a rare palm we got a few years ago). Behind the hut is a "vertical garden" we're creating, with staghorn ferns, bromeliads, etc.

A few of the other plants are real (australia tree ferns, large philodendron, & giant birds), and we have already purchased the Caryota in the lower right (which I have mixed feelings about now that I've learned about more options... but at least it would fill a spot for the first decade, while the my newer plants mature).

My three Rhopies go on the upper left side, and I want to put something "medium & fluffy" in the middle-right area (which unfortunately does get quite a bit of sun). Was considering of putting a "Beccariophoenix Fenestralis" there, but that might get too large. Ideal plant for that spot would be something medium sized that can take some sun, and not be too messy-looking (since it's front & center). Rest of the hill is TBD. 

So no, the yard isn't WAY large... but I do have some spaces to add some palms. Worst case (if I go a little nuts on the palm buying), I'll expand the planters into the grass a bit.

Thanks for all the advice you've shared with me so far!

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by idesign123

[Kim]

16 hours ago, idesign123 said:

I do have some spaces to add some palms. Worst case (if I go a little nuts on the palm buying), I'll expand the planters into the grass a bit.

"...into the grass a bit."  You have no idea! Enjoy your palms and the process.

[PalmatierMeg]

Grass is highly overrated esp. in arid climates.

[iDesign]

29 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Grass is highly overrated esp. in arid climates.

We bought our house in large part because of the enormous backyard lawn area, but the kids were young then. The idea of having a huge area for them to run around, play volleyball on, etc. was a big draw. We have TONS of grass space in our backyard, and have really loved having it.

However, at this point, our kids are older (one in college, and youngest is 10yrs).  The youngest still uses the lawn a bit, but will likely be done with the "run around" stage pretty soon (conveniently, might coincide when our "baby palms" start to grow up)... so the idea of replacing some of the grass with planting areas in a few years from now does get me thinking 

My husband & I already discussed what we'd do if severe water restrictions were put in place, and it would be to let the grass die and keep the palms (on drip irrigation)... so we're obviously not THAT attached to the grass.  For now we'll just focus on the existing planting areas (since we have a lot of space to fill, but you might see more dramatic changes in the years to come. Fun to think about.

Which brings me to one more question I had... How bad is it on the plants to plant them in one spot initially, and move them to their final destination when they grow out? My first love is Bromeliads, so I'm really used to being able to move plants around as they grow or change, but palms are obviously not as flexible in that regard.  Is it really bad on the palms to put them in one area initially (while they grow out), then move them to their final destination when they get bigger (assuming the temporary and final destinations are similar in terms of sun exposure)?

* One of my (many) bromeliad growing areas. I'm really used to pulling/moving things as they grow & change. But I'm sure palms aren't quite as tolerant of being relocated as they grow/change.

Edited February 9, 2021 by idesign123

[Tracy]

17 hours ago, idesign123 said:

Funny you should mention "Rhopies" as those were my first big snag (from Joe at Discovery Palms), and I'm sooo excited about them.

It's a bit difficult to tell in the photos, but hopefully they are labeled as to which Rhopalostylis they are.  I say that because my experience is that R sapida is slower than R baueri or R cheesemannii.  All will look better and imo grow faster in shaded conditions, but I think R buaeri and cheesemannii will handle sun better than sapida.  Photos below are a Rhopalostyis sapida (planted on the slope looking down) and Rhopalostylis baueri (adjacent to wall) taken last spring, a week apart.  The baueri was planted after the sapida by about 4 years yet the baueri has more ringed trunk and flowered a couple of years before the sapida.  The baueri is on the north side of the lot, so gets daytime shade from the two story house to it's south as well as some other palms, and afternoon shade from a Bismarckia (sun is limited to am and filtered).  The R sapida is more exposed full am sun but gets pm shade now from a Sabal mauritauformis to it's east.  The sapida often showed leaf browning when it got hot, but the baueri always looked perfect in the more filtered light position.  Both of these are growing about 3/4 of a mile due east of the beach at S Carlsbad Campgrounds up the hill so not as much marine influence as I have in Leucadia, but still pretty coastal.

Just something to consider on placement of yours depending on species of Rhopalostylis, and how much light they will get in your preferred planting spot.  I have one R cheesemannii here in Leucadia planted immediately east of my garage, so its very protected from afternoon sun, and it loves the short am sun exposure.  It is growing like the baueri in Carlsbad, much faster than the R sapida in the photo or others I have grown.  There are a couple of nice mature tall specimens of both sapida and baueri at Quail Botanical... oops there I go again, San Diego Botanical Garden here in Encinitas, which you can see.  They are both either southeast or east facing as I recall with the jungle to their west so they get pm shade.

[Tracy]

14 minutes ago, idesign123 said:

How bad is it on the plants to plant them in one spot initially, and move them to their final destination when they grow out? My first love is Bromeliads, so I'm really used to being able to move plants around as they grow or change, but palms are obviously not as flexible in that regard.  Is it really bad on the palms to put them in one area initially (while they grow out), then move them to their final destination when they get bigger (assuming the temporary and final destinations are similar in terms of sun exposure)?

Some transplant easier than others.  Bismarckia nobilis is notoriously difficult to transplant and even when pulling from a pot, the roots need to be handled with care.  Other palms can be dug with care and transplanted, but I've always felt its best not to introduce this potential shock to them.  They aren't like bromeliads, where you can just pop off a pup and stick it in the ground somewhere else.  When you get to Josh's Fairview garden, he has an extensive "exhibition" area of mature palms.  Many were acquired as larger specimens and transplanted into his garden.  He has a good deal of experience digging palms but even he will tell you that its not a 100% deal.  Its a risk he was willing to take in buying and digging bigger specimens so he wouldn't have to wait a decade or longer in some cases.  To stage palms in one spot in the ground with intentions of moving them later is just taking on unneeded risk in my opinion.

[iDesign]

5 minutes ago, Tracy said:

It's a bit difficult to tell in the photos, but hopefully they are labeled as to which Rhopalostylis they are...

Joe had both types, and I requested the "Oceana" Chatham Island version, due to internet articles saying that version was the "hardiest"... but now I'm questioning whether I should have gotten the other type.  One glimmer of hope is that one person on Palmtalk was saying that they are very sun sensitive when young, but tolerate full sun when older? Mine are pretty big, so hopefully I'll be ok. If not, this will my first (of likely many) mistakes on my adventure into palms 

* The spot I'm putting them will get at least SOME sun protection from the King Triple & large plants form the other side of the fence. The hottest part of the hill is on the right side (between the waterfall and metal fence). I'm still not sure what (sun loving) plants I'm going to put there... worst case I'll just fill it with sun-tolerant bromeliads, though I'd love to add *something* in that spot that's currently modeling a young beccariophoenix fenestralis (which likely won't work there due to how much sun that spot gets).