Roystonea borinquena - cold tolerance compared to others

[Josue Diaz]

I have a nice batch of Roystonea borinquenas in the greenhouse. Last summer i took one out and potted it up in order to test it outdoors in my climate (Fresno CA, z9b). I left it outside all winter. Our lowest temp hovered around 35F/34F and we had a couple of very light frosts. It'll be 38F tonight and tomorrow again. Here it is compared to a larger (and older) syagrus amara, syagrus cearensis and a Foxy Lady, all 4 of which were within a few feet of each other. 

 

R. borinquena - the dry tips are from summer. No spotting and no cold damage noted on it.

Syagrus amara - 3 year seedling in a 15 gal pot. It's been outdoors the entire time.

Syagrus cearensis- also 3 years old. Not happy in summer OR winter in Fresno.

Foxy Lady - gets this way each winter. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Josue Diaz

[Hillizard]

My mid-winter update from interior NorCal (I'm located farther north than Josue): Here's what my R. borinquena looks like after overwintering in my sunroom. Since I only have one, I didn't want to chance it outdoors this winter. The newest leaf has basically been in 'suspended animation' for months now, with no new growth.

My Bismarckia nobilis is displaying the aftereffects of frost burn from low temps last month but is putting out a new leaf earlier than usual this year.

And my largest Beccariophoenix alfredii is showing a lot of leaf spotting but should make it through the winter. I have a dozen B. alfredii seedlings I'll move outdoors this spring and test for tolerance to my local conditions. I also ordered seeds of Syagrus sancoma which should have enough cold tolerance for this area, but not sure if they can take full sun here.

[PalmatierMeg]

I believe R. borinquena deal with the CA climate better than R. regia.

[Hillizard]

5 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I believe R. borinquena deal with the CA climate better than R. regia.

Several of us, especially in NorCal, are hoping that's right Meg! Closer to the Bay Area there are some already growing this species outdoors successfully.

[Josue Diaz]

1 hour ago, Hillizard said:

My mid-winter update from interior NorCal (I'm located farther north than Josue): Here's what my R. borinquena looks like after overwintering in my sunroom. Since I only have one, I didn't want to chance it outdoors this winter. The newest leaf has basically been in 'suspended animation' for months now, with no new growth.

My Bismarckia nobilis is displaying the aftereffects of frost burn from low temps last month but is putting out a new leaf earlier than usual this year.

And my largest Beccariophoenix alfredii is showing a lot of leaf spotting but should make it through the winter. I have a dozen B. alfredii seedlings I'll move outdoors this spring and test for tolerance to my local conditions. I also ordered seeds of Syagrus sancoma which should have enough cold tolerance for this area, but not sure if they can take full sun here.

Awesome looking borinquena! 

If i remember correctly,  my bismarkia did that also while young. It doesn't even spot now. And this year especially was so mild that beccariophoenix didn't spot either. I'll grab pics and post them. 

[Hillizard]

8 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

Awesome looking borinquena! 

If i remember correctly,  my bismarkia did that also while young. It doesn't even spot now. And this year especially was so mild that beccariophoenix didn't spot either. I'll grab pics and post them. 

Josue:  Thanks, but I can't take too much credit for that R. borinquena, I got it about a year ago from Phil/JM; it wasn't from seed. He discovered he had a few 1-gal. tucked away in his greenhouses. I should have bought more from him (easy to ship at that size)!  Glad to know that perhaps my Bismarckia will become tougher as it matures; maybe even the Beccariophoenix too? BTW, had two Syagrus cearensis but they declined for years and finally died this summer. Hope I have better luck with the S. sancoma.

[DoomsDave]

For what it's worth, I'm inclined to think that borquies take cool better than regia, but not necessarily frost.

Way back in the early days of this madness (for me) I had small R. oleraceas, borquies, and regias in gallon and a half pots in El Sereno. While it never froze where I was on my razorback hilltop, it did get cool and ollies turned yellow first, followed by regia, with borquies, if at all, last.

I didn't have any borquies in the great freeze of 2007, so I can't speak first-hand of their frost tolerance, though ollies are dead ducks, alas. Regias sailed through 24 F no problem, some leaf damage, but they just grew out of it in a season.

One more reason to like borquies is, while they're big and majestic, they don't drop 60 pound leaves on you, but instead maybe 20 or 30 pounders. Much easier to deal with in a typical garden. But, if you have the room, regias rock and are worth a try.

Also, don't be afraid to try princeps, if you can get them. Not easy, but I hear they take the cold well, too.

[Hillizard]

14 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

For what it's worth, I'm inclined to think that borquies take cool better than regia, but not necessarily frost.

Way back in the early days of this madness (for me) I had small R. oleraceas, borquies, and regias in gallon and a half pots in El Sereno. While it never froze where I was on my razorback hilltop, it did get cool and ollies turned yellow first, followed by regia, with borquies, if at all, last.

I didn't have any borquies in the great freeze of 2007, so I can't speak first-hand of their frost tolerance, though ollies are dead ducks, alas. Regias sailed through 24 F no problem, some leaf damage, but they just grew out of it in a season.

One more reason to like borquies is, while they're big and majestic, they don't drop 60 pound leaves on you, but instead maybe 20 or 30 pounders. Much easier to deal with in a typical garden. But, if you have the room, regias rock and are worth a try.

Also, don't be afraid to try princeps, if you can get them. Not easy, but I hear they take the cold well, too.

DoomsDave: I plan to keep my borinquie in a pot until it's got something like the start of a woody trunk. I'll look around for an R. princeps too. Thanks for the suggestions!

[DoomsDave]

Just now, Hillizard said:

DoomsDave: I plan to keep my borquie in a pot until it's got something like the start of a woody trunk. I'll look around for an R. princeps too. Thanks for the suggestions!

Give it a big pot, as soon as the weather warms! Water it, feed it, pamper it, and get it to put on size and critical mass. From my limited observations, they toughen up a lot when they get some serious size. Babies on all the Royals are a bit fragile in the cool, how well (too damn well!) I know. Alas.

[Hillizard]

8 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

Give it a big pot, as soon as the weather warms! Water it, feed it, pamper it, and get it to put on size and critical mass. From my limited observations, they toughen up a lot when they get some serious size. Babies on all the Royals are a bit fragile in the cool, how well (too damn well!) I know. Alas.

Will do! I have a great, insulated pot in mind for it when I start spring planting!

[DoomsDave]

5 minutes ago, Hillizard said:

Will do! I have a great, insulated pot in mind tor it when I start spring planting!

Hold off till it gets reliably warm. Like April. Then feed with Miracle gro. Give it full sun and all the heat you can.

You'll have liftoff, with a bit of luck, and, we'll have the spectacle of a far northern Royal.

[Josue Diaz]

1 hour ago, Hillizard said:

Josue:  Thanks, but I can't take too much credit for that R. borinquena, I got it about a year ago from Phil/JM; it wasn't from seed. He discovered he had a few 1-gal. tucked away in his greenhouses. I should have bought more from him (easy to ship at that size)!  Glad to know that perhaps my Bismarckia will become tougher as it matures; maybe even the Beccariophoenix too? BTW, had two Syagrus cearensis but they declined for years and finally died this summer. Hope I have better luck with the S. sancoma.

I have a few sancona seedlings also, I'll baby those too haha

 

51 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

For what it's worth, I'm inclined to think that borquies take cool better than regia, but not necessarily frost.

Way back in the early days of this madness (for me) I had small R. oleraceas, borquies, and regias in gallon and a half pots in El Sereno. While it never froze where I was on my razorback hilltop, it did get cool and ollies turned yellow first, followed by regia, with borquies, if at all, last.

I didn't have any borquies in the great freeze of 2007, so I can't speak first-hand of their frost tolerance, though ollies are dead ducks, alas. Regias sailed through 24 F no problem, some leaf damage, but they just grew out of it in a season.

One more reason to like borquies is, while they're big and majestic, they don't drop 60 pound leaves on you, but instead maybe 20 or 30 pounders. Much easier to deal with in a typical garden. But, if you have the room, regias rock and are worth a try.

Also, don't be afraid to try princeps, if you can get them. Not easy, but I hear they take the cold well, too.

I've tried regia but never makes it through our winter as a seedling You have both borinquena & regia right?

[James B]

I don’t have Borinquena but I have 2 Regias and what I’ve found just as much as heat they need sun. The larger of the two is in my back yard where it gets 4-5 hrs of full sun even in winter and this year grew the spear 12-14” between Nov-Feb whereas the one in the front yard which is shaded out in winter by a large oak only grew its spear maybe 4”. 

What can cause younger Royals to struggle in CA is the lack sunlight and long cool winters. Florida has palms that have survived 20-22 degrees so they can handle cold as long as the day time temps and sun heat them up.
I also think as long as you water it inland CA is a much better climate than coastal CA especially coastal central and NorCal. 
They need consistent hot days with plenty of sunshine to grow their best.

As long as they are given lots of water there isn’t any amount of sun they cannot handle as members in AZ have proven.

Edited February 15, 2021 by James B

[Hillizard]

51 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

Hold off till it gets reliably warm. Like April. Then feed with Miracle gro. Give it full sun and all the heat you can.

You'll have liftoff, with a bit of luck, and, we'll have the spectacle of a far northern Royal.

Josue will probably have more luck in that regard. He has somewhat warmer winter weather in interior NorCal.

[Hillizard]

10 minutes ago, James B said:

I don’t have Borinquena but I have 2 Regias and what I’ve found just as much as heat they need sun. The larger of the two is in my back yard where it gets 4-5 hrs of full sun even in winter and this year grew the spear 12-14” between Nov-Feb whereas the one in the front yard which is shaded out in winter by a large oak only grew its spear maybe 4”. 

What can cause younger Royals to struggle in CA is the lack sunlight and long cool winters. Florida has palms that have survived 20-22 degrees so they can handle cold as long as the day time temps and sun heat them up.
I also think as long as you water it inland CA is a much better climate than coastal CA especially coastal central and NorCal. 
They need consistent hot days with plenty of sunshine to grow their best.

As long as they are given lots of water there isn’t any amount of sun they cannot handle as members in AZ have proven.

James: You're right about Roystoneas and sun. All of the species in that genus I've tried have handled full-blast summer heat and sun here without complaint. It's our overcast, damp, cool winters where they suffer.  Planting them on a berm that drains seems to help.

[Hillizard]

25 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

I have a few sancona seedlings also, I'll baby those too haha

 

I've tried regia but never makes it through our winter as a seedling You have both borinquena & regia right?

Josue: Very nice palms! Looks like they handled the worst of winter where you are without noticeable damage! Those are going to be awesome in less than a decade! My regia all declined. Guess I should start over with that species!

[Josue Diaz]

4 hours ago, Hillizard said:

Josue: Very nice palms! Looks like they handled the worst of winter where you are without noticeable damage! Those are going to be awesome in less than a decade! My regia all declined. Guess I should start over with that species!

I have a few borinquenas if you want to try one of those

[Hillizard]

35 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

I have a few borinquenas if you want to try one of those

Thanks. Maybe this spring we can figure out a trade... I would be interested in a S. sancoma seedling. I have some Chamaerops humilis 'Vulcano' (from RPS seed) in tree pots if you're interested. Problem is they're still too young to exhibit those characteristic vulcano traits, at least as far as I can tell.

[quaman58]

Josue, 

Here in SoCal, I've not noticed much difference between the species, with the exception of R. oleracea as seedlings; they seem pretty tender when small. Between my neighbor and I, we have borinquena, princeps and regia growing. They all seem similar in cold tolerance to me. They all burn at temps approaching freezing, at least once they've gone pinnate. Not sure how helpful this is in your zone!

[Josue Diaz]

1 hour ago, Hillizard said:

Thanks. Maybe this spring we can figure out a trade... I would be interested in a S. sancoma seedling. I have some Chamaerops humilis 'Vulcano' (from RPS seed) in tree pots if you're interested. Problem is they're still too young to exhibit those characteristic vulcano traits, at least as far as I can tell.

I'd love that. let's shoot for sometime next month?

[Josue Diaz]

1 hour ago, quaman58 said:

Josue, 

Here in SoCal, I've not noticed much difference between the species, with the exception of R. oleracea as seedlings; they seem pretty tender when small. Between my neighbor and I, we have borinquena, princeps and regia growing. They all seem similar in cold tolerance to me. They all burn at temps approaching freezing, at least once they've gone pinnate. Not sure how helpful this is in your zone!

very cool that you can grow that trio! i don't expect much to come of my roystonea seedlings. I think that the thrill of testing and potentially succeeding, if only for a little while, is worth it. We do get frost each year so I'm sure that if exposed to open sky, away from the protection of fences and trees, they may fare differently.

[Hillizard]

2 hours ago, Josue Diaz said:

I'd love that. let's shoot for sometime next month?

Sounds good! I'll send you a photo of the Chamaerops next month so you can choose which you want.

[enigma99]

When I return from vacation I will post some pics. I have one borquie in the ground and one in a pot. The one in the ground is perfect and has grown a bit recently. The one in the pot is looking not good. Difference is that the ground one is in well draining soil and the one in the pot is in clay... so drainage is huge. 
 

Winter extreme low here is 32.0

[DoomsDave]

1 hour ago, enigma99 said:

When I return from vacation I will post some pics. I have one borquie in the ground and one in a pot. The one in the ground is perfect and has grown a bit recently. The one in the pot is looking not good. Difference is that the ground one is in well draining soil and the one in the pot is in clay... so drainage is huge. 
 

Winter extreme low here is 32.0

Interesting about the drainage.

Regias are Swamp Things.

[-2 brian]

2 hours ago, enigma99 said:

When I return from vacation I will post some pics. I have one borquie in the ground and one in a pot. The one in the ground is perfect and has grown a bit recently. The one in the pot is looking not good. Difference is that the ground one is in well draining soil and the one in the pot is in clay... so drainage is huge. 
 

Winter extreme low here is 32.0

Probably just as important a difference is that the soil temp of the pot planted palm will be considerably colder then the soil temp of the palm planted in the ground during the winter. Also like most plants, palms do better in the ground then in pots; more even consistent root temps,  room for roots to grow down etc. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

My only Roystonea is a boriquena. I planted it as a tiny 4” seedling between a Foxy Lady and a Wodyetia that had already been in place a few years. They are very close to each other but there canopies will be at much different heights. All three have done remarkably well even in winter with no yellowing. The Wodyetia has gotten a few spots from time to time. The Roystonea is about seven feet tall now after several years in the ground and produces just two leaves, rarely three, per year. Photos taken today. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Jim in Los Altos

[Josue Diaz]

7 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

My only Roystonea is a boriquena. I planted it as a tiny 4” seedling between a Foxy Lady and a Wodyetia That has already been in place a few years. They are very close to each other but there canopies will be at much different heights. All three have done remarkably well even in winter with no yellowing. The Wodyetia has gotten a few spots from time to time. The Roystonea is about seven feet tall now after several years in the ground and produces just two leaves, rarely three, per year. Photos taken today. 

That Foxy Lady is a real winner IMO

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 minute ago, Josue Diaz said:

That Foxy Lady is a real winner IMO

Yeah, they’re amazingly tropical looking palms considering their cool weather tolerance. The Wodyetia near it was the same size at planting time and is only about a third the size of the Foxy Lady. 

Do you have one? 

[Josue Diaz]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Yeah, they’re amazingly tropical looking palms considering their cool weather tolerance. The Wodyetia near it was the same size at planting time and is only about a third the size of the Foxy Lady. 

Do you have one? 

Yeah, I've babied a small seedling up to a 15 gal size. Unprotected in winter in Fresno the last 2 winters, but it does spot up. I'll probably grow it as long as i can in a pot before committing it to the ground where it'll be harder to protect in the case of a hard frost.

[palmsOrl]

My Roystonea borinqueana at my parent's former home is every bit as cold tolerant as Roystonea regia.  If anything, it might even be just a hair more freeze tolerant.  Total defoliation and near death but survived 24F two nights in a row and lots of chilly weather including a day in the 30s.

The extended chill we are capable of getting is nothing compared to what Texas can get though.  We would never have 4-6 days in a row with highs in the 20s and 30s.

-Michael

[enigma99]

Here is my borinqueana in the ground. Finally looking like spring is arriving, although cool. Upper 60s or so. (Palm was a 5g planted last summer, on the right side)

Currently opening a spear

Edited February 21, 2021 by enigma99

[enigma99]

Close up

[Xerarch]

On 2/18/2021 at 9:32 PM, palmsOrl said:

My Roystonea borinqueana at my parent's former home is every bit as cold tolerant as Roystonea regia.  If anything, it might even be just a hair more freeze tolerant.  Total defoliation and near death but survived 24F two nights in a row and lots of chilly weather including a day in the 30s.

The extended chill we are capable of getting is nothing compared to what Texas can get though.  We would never have 4-6 days in a row with highs in the 20s and 30s.

-Michael

"Texas" is a very large place, luckily Brownsville/South Padre didn't have that many days with highs only in the 30's.  What you say about yours surviving two consecutive nights at 24 with a day in the 30's should give some hope deep S. Texas gardeners, not sure if there are any borinqueanas down there, I love the regias but would nice to see some other representatives of the genus also, especially if they are comparable with cold tolerance. From other posts on forum it also seems like princeps might be ok on cold?

[enigma99]

^ I want to try a princeps again. It was super robust until I planted it in a swamp for the winter. That was a few years ago, but does anyone know where to get some seedlings or seeds?