Pine Island

[NickJames]

I am seriously considering buying land on Pine Island (Lee County) as an investment/retirement/palm collection. 

Is this a fairly safe haven for tropical palms? I mean obviously I see what’s there currently  

Land there is comparatively inexpensive. 

With the exception of say, The Keys and Miami Beach, is it one of the better locations in Florida for palm growing?

This is a VERY long-term thing, so ideally I would come in immediately and plant smaller palms so that they are mature by the time I eventually live there. 

[Allen]

Not a FL expert here.  Looks interesting.  I zillowed it and found 22 Acres for 700k.  Looks 'swampy' for lack of a better term.  Good luck, there has to be some reason there are not many houses there.  Lots of palms.

[DoomsDave]

FWIW I thought it was pretty nice when I visited in 2007 2008. Tropical palms all over, native habitat for wild royals heck I’d think of retiring there.

Check maps for storm surges.

[Xenon]

I saw a breadfruit tree in Bokeelia so it definitely seems to be pretty warm. If you really want to split hairs, I would assume the north end of the island is marginally warmer being directly south of all of that water. You know in case you want to zone push and plant lipstick palms...

Edited March 2, 2021 by Xenon

[KDubU]

Yes Pine Island is a nice place. Have looked at a few homes there and it’s nice and quiet. Much quieter than many places in FL and likely too quiet for many. Takes a bit of time to get off the island in peak season and the only thing that has been hurting the area in general is red tide. It’s been brutal on Sanibel, the Southern tip especially. One of the key reasons why I did not buy in the area as looked hard at Sanibel.

[Dartolution]

1 hour ago, NickJames said:

I am seriously considering buying land on Pine Island (Lee County) as an investment/retirement/palm collection. 

Is this a fairly safe haven for tropical palms? I mean obviously I see what’s there currently  

Land there is comparatively inexpensive. 

With the exception of say, The Keys and Miami Beach, is it one of the better locations in Florida for palm growing?

This is a VERY long-term thing, so ideally I would come in immediately and plant smaller palms so that they are mature by the time I eventually live there. 

@NickJames When I was considering places to move within the next 3-5 years (ideally) Florida was on the top of the list. I believe I reached out to you at one point about questions. 

Ultimately, I decided against Florida, and instead have been focusing on reading/searching around Puerto Rico. 

However, Pine Island was among the top areas I was looking at when I was still considering Florida. 

[RedRabbit]

It’s an ideal spot for growing palms since the land is cheap and it’s got a great microclimate. I understand Bokeelia is the warmest spot on the island.

Believe it or not, some of Pine Island is actually Zone X in case you wanted a house there. 

[NickJames]

So as many of you know, I’m a REALTOR so I have fairly quick access to a lot of data (though Florida is lucky in that we have very open public records). 

The particular lot I’m fantasizing about is in Zone X (low flood risk). It’s in the north end with a Bokeelia mailing address. 

It has many pines and appears to be a sandy upland. Definitely “high and dry” as they say. The pines appear to be pre-Charley. I’m surprised considering this part of the island took a direct hit from the NE eyewall of Charley, with 145mph sustained winds with gusts to 200. 
 

[Palmaceae]

Pine Island is great, and one of the best things of Pine Island is they do not allow any development that would destroy the quaint old Florida feeling of the island. The north side of the island is the warmest part and is zone 10a, maybe even closer to zone 10b. I really enjoyed going to Pine Island when we lived in Cape Coral.  In my opinion SW Florida is the best area to live in, I really enjoyed it.

[PalmatierMeg]

I live in Cape Coral and worked for 17 years on Little Pine Island Wetland Mitigation Bank (separate island). Pine Island is a relict piece of Old Florida. It is definitely warmer than Cape Coral due to the influence of the Gulf. Its biggest drawback by modern standards is it has just one 2-lane highway running the length of the island and leading off island. Islanders are very strict about not allowing tract housing or large commercial development with chain stores and strip malls - there is one Winn-Dixie, a Circle K, Subway and a Dairy Queen near Pine Island Center. I would have loved to live there but the work commute was too daunting. Mosquitoes are legendary, too. It would be a great place to retire if you don't mind a quiet, rural life with simple amenities and pesky Lookie-Loo Tourists.

[ahosey01]

16 hours ago, NickJames said:

I am seriously considering buying land on Pine Island (Lee County) as an investment/retirement/palm collection. 

Is this a fairly safe haven for tropical palms? I mean obviously I see what’s there currently  

Land there is comparatively inexpensive. 

With the exception of say, The Keys and Miami Beach, is it one of the better locations in Florida for palm growing?

This is a VERY long-term thing, so ideally I would come in immediately and plant smaller palms so that they are mature by the time I eventually live there. 

Buy it and plant your palms.  I’ll pitch a tent and take care of them in the meantime.  LOL

Edited March 2, 2021 by ahosey01

[Steve the palmreader]

You will need irrigation  Our soil is sandy and dry, And the dry season is Oct-May.   You property if in the flood zone will require a lot of fill dirt. 

[Steve the palmreader]

Meg , Things are changing there is a new large 7-11 and a Publix  with a shopping center under construction .

[NickJames]

Thank you all!

The property in question is not in a flood zone and shockingly has access to the municipal water coop! So irrigation would be very easy to do. I read the coop’s annual water report and they don’t add fluoride - so it looks fairly safe to use immediately for palm irrigation. 
 

[NickJames]

Non-palm question for the locals: where do you go to the beach? Do you take the ferry to the state park?

[sonoranfans]

Larry Joliffe on this forum had a home down there.  I visited it and the soil was all sand.  I think lots of ammendments and mulching would be needed.   In sand, the soil maintenance work is magnified a lot.  Mulching is an annual necessity and irrigation should be watched closely in high drainage sandy soil.  Being a remote owner means you have to get the soil and irrigation right and keep it right.  My place has plenty of sand but also some clay at 2-3' deep which makes things a little easier.  But I still have to spread mulch annually after 10 years to keep the soil somewhat rich on the surface 4-6".  Given a good level of irrigation and soil ammendment and maintenance you could grow many more beautiful palm species down there.  Larry had some very nice coconuts!

[PalmatierMeg]

25 minutes ago, Steve the palmreader said:

Meg , Things are changing there is a new large 7-11 and a Publix  with a shopping center under construction .

The horror! That saddens me.

[NickJames]

In looking at old photos, the lot was saw palmetto. The lot now appears to be pine straw/mulched with only the mature pine (sand or long leaf?) remaining in the listing photos  

The current owner purchased in December. He cleared and ‘improved’ the property by grading it. 

I’ll be checking it out in person on Monday to study it further. I’m hoping the mulch (or whatever it is) will start to improve the soil. 

Just realized I never shared a photo of it yet. 

[JJPalmer]

I believe Pine Island came up on a microclimates discussion thread, which makes sense. Probably one of the best spots on the West Coast aside from Ana Maria.  I’ll dig into the data to see if I can’t pin it down further, but you’d have to be close to 10B there. 

[Steve the palmreader]

3 minutes ago, JJPalmer said:

I believe Pine Island came up on a microclimates discussion thread, which makes sense. Probably one of the best spots on the West Coast aside from Ana Maria.  I’ll dig into the data to see if I can’t pin it down further, but you’d have to be close to 10B there. 

 I live here, If you are on the water its good. off water the temps can drop quick if the wind falls out because it is so rural. 

[redant]

Pine island is definitely a great palm zone.  Good luck on your possible purchase.

[Steve the palmreader]

1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

The horror! That saddens me.

 it was needed . We only had one gas station with one row of pumps and i could take  a hour to get gas . There was always verbal fights for a pump. The grocery store is small and run down.

[Steve the palmreader]

44 minutes ago, NickJames said:

In looking at old photos, the lot was saw palmetto. The lot now appears to be pine straw/mulched with only the mature pine (sand or long leaf?) remaining in the listing photos  

The current owner purchased in December. He cleared and ‘improved’ the property by grading it. 

I’ll be checking it out in person on Monday to study it further. I’m hoping the mulch (or whatever it is) will start to improve the soil. 

Just realized I never shared a photo of it yet. 

If it is not on a county paved road it can be a tough access during rainy season 

[KDubU]

1 hour ago, NickJames said:

Non-palm question for the locals: where do you go to the beach? Do you take the ferry to the state park?

I believe beaches are off island and it can take 45-60mins to get to one. There are a lot of mangroves around the island so not much beach access.

[Steve the palmreader]

1 hour ago, NickJames said:

Non-palm question for the locals: where do you go to the beach? Do you take the ferry to the state park?

 No beach , Nearest beach you can drive to is Sanibel or Ft,Myers beach  at least a hour drive.

[NickJames]

2 minutes ago, Steve the palmreader said:

If it is not on a county paved road it can be a tough access during rainy season 

Thank you! This is helpful. 
There is a line item on the property tax bill for maintenance of Harbor Drive. Is that common there?

[PalmatierMeg]

The pines are likely Southern Slash Pines. We planted 1,000s of them when we restored Little Pine Island. Pine Island has little or no true beaches as it is blocked by Sanibel. You may have to get a boat to cross over from St James City to Sanibel or Captiva beaches. As far as I know there are no ferries that cross over. I worked for a year on South Seas Resort at the tip of Captiva Island, which is a separate island from Sanibel and there was no way to access Pine Island except by private boat.

Looks like the current owner mitigated that property by clearing/removing all the invasive melaleuca, Australian pine and Brazilian pepper. I don't know how PI regulates invasives but you should know these aggressive trees will stage a comeback very quickly so you should be prepared to mitigate your land in the future and that may require permits from FDEP and Army Corps of Engineers, esp if there are wetlands on the property. Be sure to ask the Seller what was involved when he cleared the property and how much it cost.

 

[Steve the palmreader]

Harbor drive is paved now I dont know who paid for it.  Maybe some of the palm farms Like Palmco ? I suggest looking during the rainy season

[NickJames]

9 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

The pines are likely Southern Slash Pines. We planted 1,000s of them when we restored Little Pine Island. Pine Island has little or no true beaches as it is blocked by Sanibel. You may have to get a boat to cross over from St James City to Sanibel or Captiva beaches. As far as I know there are no ferries that cross over. I worked for a year on South Seas Resort at the tip of Captiva Island, which is a separate island from Sanibel and there was no way to access Pine Island except by private boat.

Looks like the current owner mitigated that property by clearing/removing all the invasive melaleuca, Australian pine and Brazilian pepper. I don't know how PI regulates invasives but you should know these aggressive trees will stage a comeback very quickly so you should be prepared to mitigate your land in the future and that may require permits from FDEP and Army Corps of Engineers, esp if there are wetlands on the property. Be sure to ask the Seller what was involved when he cleared the property and how much it cost.

 

There are no wetlands thank goodness. It’s very high and dry, all things considered. 

There is apparently a vendor-operated ferry from Bokeelia to Caya Costa State Park. I just checked and it is currently operational. It’s a bit pricey ($30 or something) but then you get access to a beach only accessible via boat!

since this is a...very long-term idea, I imagine I would get my own boat by the time I actually lived there, too. 

[PalmatierMeg]

It goes without saying you will have to monitor the weather closely during hurricane. Pine Island Rd is the only way on/off the island and is 2-lanes wide. It bisects the fishing village of Matlacha, which has rechristened itself as the the kitsch Art Mecca of SWFL. Matlacha is at almost 0 sea level and even a nearby tropical storm will flood the road and cut off access to/from the mainland. Keeps everyone on their toes.

[NickJames]

1 minute ago, PalmatierMeg said:

It goes without saying you will have to monitor the weather closely during hurricane. Pine Island Rd is the only way on/off the island and is 2-lanes wide. It bisects the fishing village of Matlacha, which has rechristened itself as the the kitsch Art Mecca of SWFL. Matlacha is at almost 0 sea level and even a nearby tropical storm will flood the road and cut off access to/from the mainland. Keeps everyone on their toes.

Again, good to know. I enjoy eating in Matlacha. My brother in-law lives in Cape Coral. It seems they always take us to Matlacha to eat. 

[NickJames]

12 minutes ago, Steve the palmreader said:

Harbor drive is paved now I dont know who paid for it.  Maybe some of the palm farms Like Palmco ? I suggest looking during the rainy season

I’m guessing the line item on the property tax bill is to repay the bonds for it. 

[PalmatierMeg]

13 minutes ago, Steve the palmreader said:

Harbor drive is paved now I dont know who paid for it.  Maybe some of the palm farms Like Palmco ? I suggest looking during the rainy season

I definitely agree with Steve. Everything looks perfect in March but you got to experience the place come Aug/Sep. This is true Florida, not a photoshopped travel poster.

[NickJames]

Bottom line, do we think it’s a good place overall to grow palms ? Real estate is usually the best investment to make, so even if I never move there permanently in 5000 years, my biggest question will be how good the investment is. There’s no doubt I would maintain it and not surrender it to the rogue invasive. I’m envisioning even bringing a camper to it periodically even if I never live there.

[RedRabbit]

2 minutes ago, NickJames said:

 Real estate is usually the best investment to make, so even if I never move there permanently in 5000 years, my biggest question will be how good the investment is.

I wouldn’t buy a vacant lot for investment purposes. You’re better off getting a house or multi-family on a large lot. Rent it out and landscape it with your favorite palms. Then you can make some money each month, have the palms you want, and possibly get some appreciation. 

[Fusca]

21 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

You’re better off getting a house or multi-family on a large lot. Rent it out and landscape it with your favorite palms. Then you can make some money each month, have the palms you want, and possibly get some appreciation. 

This is what I am doing here in Texas.  Lucky to have a renter who likes gardening and doesn't mind watering Archontophoenix!  Makes it easier to get small palms established.  And I see you're actually a red rabbit now!  What ever happened to Winnie the Pooh?  

[PalmatierMeg]

55 minutes ago, NickJames said:

Bottom line, do we think it’s a good place overall to grow palms ? Real estate is usually the best investment to make, so even if I never move there permanently in 5000 years, my biggest question will be how good the investment is. There’s no doubt I would maintain it and not surrender it to the rogue invasive. I’m envisioning even bringing a camper to it periodically even if I never live there.

Yes. For investment purposes? I don't recommend vacant land. That said, FL is being invaded from all parts north and that probably includes PI. I suspect the incomers will eventually overwhelm FL natives and longtime residents and impose their will on everything, chase out farms and nurseries, establish gated communities and poncy shopping. I think the changeover is underway. The only thing that might help save PI as it was is that there have been conservation groups buying and consolidating tracts of land to create preserves and wildlife habitat from money-grubbing developers. So, in a few years or a few decades your land might attract big bucks as a site for Mega-McMansions Estates.

[ahosey01]

1 hour ago, NickJames said:

Bottom line, do we think it’s a good place overall to grow palms ? Real estate is usually the best investment to make, so even if I never move there permanently in 5000 years, my biggest question will be how good the investment is. There’s no doubt I would maintain it and not surrender it to the rogue invasive. I’m envisioning even bringing a camper to it periodically even if I never live there.

Way to steal my idea.  

[NickJames]

2 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

Way to steal my idea.  

 

2 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

Way to steal my idea.  

I improved upon it!  

But it IS a good idea, isn’t it!?

[climate change virginia]

It depends also on demographics, political leaning, infrastructure, population, ect. Lets say someone was from a Caribbean Spanish background they would possibly retire in south eastern florida because of democratic leaning vs someone from a white background from somewhere like Mississippi they may retire in possibly the western half of south florida (assumptions of different areas and majority of political leaning please don't get mad at me.) Also you have to take in consideration of infrastructure like how many hospitals are around or the closest fire stations ect. Also you need to consider the population if you want a quiet place to retire or a more busy place to retire. I hope this helped

Edited March 2, 2021 by climate change virginia